If a High Grade Tec #27 Broke the World Record... 3 3

[Wayne-Tec]

15 hours ago, tth2 said:

How many baseball fans consider Honus Wagner to be their favorite player or the greatest player of all time?

I don't think that's a fair comparison. The T206 came out in 1909-1911. How many collectors today had the opportunity to watch him play live? I'm not so sure that card's desirability is driven as much by the love for Wagner as a baseball player as comic books are by the characters they feature. Put another way, and I don't know how to measure this, but I suspect Action #1/Tec #27 owners are bigger fans of Superman/Batman than T206 owners are fans of Honus Wagner.

One of the things that makes comic books unique is the connection to the characters that collectors love. That connection is reflected in FMV as well. Compare the FMV of the top DC/Timely books to their non-DC/Timely books competitors. Artists, publishers, rarity and classic covers have made a lot of non-DC/Timely books valuable, but overall, it's not that close and that's no coincidence.

No doubt, Action #1's place as the "holy grail" of our hobby has an aura surrounding it that makes the book all the more desirable. Collectors desire the very best, those "holy grail" items. I could write a book about why Action #1 should be the holy grail of our hobby (check out my avatar). There are strong points in favor of both books. But it really doesn't matter how I feel. It matters how collectors feel as a whole as time moves forward.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Action #1 remains No. 1. But for that to happen, all of those collectors born after 1980 are going to have to say "No, I prefer to spend just a little more on a character I didn't grow up liking that much." Those collectors, if presented with an auction that featured both an Action #1 and Tec #27 in comparable grades, need to stay "I'm going to pass on the Tec #27 that features my all-time favorite character so I can spend more money on a book featuring a character I didn't grow up liking that much."

I'm generalizing too much, but you get the idea. I'm just not sold on that being the future of the hobby.

[rob_react]

On 5/24/2020 at 8:36 PM, tth2 said:

Reputedly it's much nicer than a 9.2.

 

[rob_react]

On 5/24/2020 at 7:54 PM, woowoo said:

 

FWIW, that "book" is mocked up using the Heritage CGC 8.0

[rob_react]

On 5/25/2020 at 12:44 AM, woowoo said:

If the Tec 27 is a cgc 9.6 it will blow the church Action 1 away at 9.4

No. I have both estimated at exactly those grades and have always held the Action #1 as the more valuable book. 

[rob_react]

On 5/25/2020 at 4:42 PM, Wayne-Tec said:

If the best existing Action #1 proves to be nicer than the best existing Tec #27, it will be interesting. I initially used the 9.2 Tec #27 as a hypothetical because it’s currently the highest slabbed copy. How would it match up to the best slabbed Action #1?

 

I think the Tec 27 9.2 is the most valuable CGC Graded book. But that's complicated by the way the census works out. A 9.2 Tec 27 is a lot nicer than the next best copy in the census (what I believe to be one 8.0, even though there are two reported)

[rob_react]

On 5/27/2020 at 4:35 PM, Wayne-Tec said:

I don't have data to back this up, but I feel like we see more Action #1's.

I have record of something like 40 sales of Action #1 over $100,000 and something like 30 of Detective #27. 

[woowoo]

49 minutes ago, rob_react said:

FWIW, that "book" is mocked up using the Heritage CGC 8.0

I don't think its mocked up look at the Kane Sig

[woowoo]

50 minutes ago, rob_react said:

No. I have both estimated at exactly those grades and have always held the Action #1 as the more valuable book. 

That's you.  Batman is so much more than Superman. A 9.6 Detective 27 will blow away church 9.4 Action 1 since there are a lot 8.0 up cgc graded Action1's and only 8.0 and 92 Tec.

[bluechip]

On 5/26/2020 at 10:37 AM, woowoo said:

Like a more-fun 32 missing back cover you'r saying

 

[bluechip]

On 5/27/2020 at 1:52 PM, Wayne-Tec said:

The T206 came out in 1909-1911. How many collectors today had the opportunity to watch him play live?

 

I wouldn't be shocked to see Action #1 remains No. 1. But for that to happen, all of those collectors born after 1980 are going to have to say "No, I prefer to spend just a little more on a character I didn't grow up liking that much."

People have not grown up liking Honus Wagner for about a hundred years now.   They've grown up hearing it's a holy grail baseball card based on criteria that long, long ago ceased to be pertinent(most collectors in the early 1900s were completists, and the Wagner card was sought after not because he was the GOAT but because they wanted to complete the set, which was hard to find, so it cost more).  But the "grail card" sheen continues to shine brightly, long long (oh so very long) after collectors sought out the card based on his importance and appeal as a player.

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by bluechip

[woowoo]

3 minutes ago, bluechip said:

 

I got a few But I don't have a 32

[waaaghboss]

And for what it's worth, some of us post 1980's gree up watching the original superman show, as they used to show it on nick at nite 

 

Even more watched batman. TAS, though.

[lou_fine]

52 minutes ago, woowoo said:

1 hour ago, rob_react said:

FWIW, that "book" is mocked up using the Heritage CGC 8.0

I don't think its mocked up look at the Kane Sig

Ummmm.................that's only because the mock up was prepared and done up by Jason Ewert himself.    

Edited May 29, 2020 by lou_fine

[fishbone]

On 5/27/2020 at 4:52 PM, Wayne-Tec said:

I don't think that's a fair comparison. The T206 came out in 1909-1911. How many collectors today had the opportunity to watch him play live? I'm not so sure that card's desirability is driven as much by the love for Wagner as a baseball player as comic books are by the characters they feature. Put another way, and I don't know how to measure this, but I suspect Action #1/Tec #27 owners are bigger fans of Superman/Batman than T206 owners are fans of Honus Wagner.

One of the things that makes comic books unique is the connection to the characters that collectors love. That connection is reflected in FMV as well. Compare the FMV of the top DC/Timely books to their non-DC/Timely books competitors. Artists, publishers, rarity and classic covers have made a lot of non-DC/Timely books valuable, but overall, it's not that close and that's no coincidence.

No doubt, Action #1's place as the "holy grail" of our hobby has an aura surrounding it that makes the book all the more desirable. Collectors desire the very best, those "holy grail" items. I could write a book about why Action #1 should be the holy grail of our hobby (check out my avatar). There are strong points in favor of both books. But it really doesn't matter how I feel. It matters how collectors feel as a whole as time moves forward.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Action #1 remains No. 1. But for that to happen, all of those collectors born after 1980 are going to have to say "No, I prefer to spend just a little more on a character I didn't grow up liking that much." Those collectors, if presented with an auction that featured both an Action #1 and Tec #27 in comparable grades, need to stay "I'm going to pass on the Tec #27 that features my all-time favorite character so I can spend more money on a book featuring a character I didn't grow up liking that much."

I'm generalizing too much, but you get the idea. I'm just not sold on that being the future of the hobby.

I don't agree - I think it's a great comparison. What is being said is that Action#1 "transcends" any popularity of the player/character/story etc. that is contained within such collectible. That book, that card, has now come to represent something much bigger than any pure like or dislike of the character/player/etc. It now has a special "aura" around it that may never go away. i think the Mona Lisa is similar - whether you think it's a fantastic piece of art or not (I am in the "not" camp), it transcends art - I could give examples of thousands of pieces of art I "love" way more than the Mona Lisa, but they will never be more valuable than the Grail of all art.

 

My 2 cents 

Edited May 29, 2020 by fishbone

[rob_react]

14 hours ago, woowoo said:

That's you.  Batman is so much more than Superman. A 9.6 Detective 27 will blow away church 9.4 Action 1 since there are a lot 8.0 up cgc graded Action1's and only 8.0 and 92 Tec.

I would prefer that Detective 27 was the number one book. But I've been working on these ideas for a long time and they've been tempered by a bunch of really smart people looking at what I've written and sharing their options with me. So, Action #1 still wins. 

[rob_react]

 

14 hours ago, woowoo said:

I don't think its mocked up look at the Kane Sig

It's a modern holder with the wrong font for the grade and a nonexistent serial number. It's definitely mocked up. They "trimmed" the book in Photoshop, messed with the proportions (squished it) and put it in a modern holder with a random serial number.

As for it being the heritage book , you can see the end of a spine break in the blue hat and the dust shadow is spot on between the two books. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by rob_react
stray quote

[Crowzilla]

22 hours ago, woowoo said:

That's you.  Batman is so much more than Superman. A 9.6 Detective 27 will blow away church 9.4 Action 1 since there are a lot 8.0 up cgc graded Action1's and only 8.0 and 92 Tec.

The two people whose vote in this actually count disagree with you at this time.

Of course, who knows what the Church Action #1 will grade once it's been pressed a few times.

[tth2]

8 hours ago, rob_react said:

I would prefer that Detective 27 was the number one book.

Why?

Action 1 dwarfs Detective 27 and every other comic book in historical significance.  It is rightfully the number one book.  This is one of the rare cases where the marketplace has gotten it spot on.

[rob_react]

13 minutes ago, tth2 said:

Why?

Action 1 dwarfs Detective 27 and every other comic book in historical significance.  It is rightfully the number one book.  This is one of the rare cases where the marketplace has gotten it spot on.

Because I 💖 Detective Comics #27, of course. 

[rob_react]

Seriously, it's just fanboy stuff. I like Detective Comics #27. 

Which is funny, since, in my latest collecting life I've mostly been buying low grade/restored Superman comics.