A silly hypothetical situation, loosely based in reality. 0

[shadroch]

Jimmy Collins was born in  July 1954.  In the summer of 1962, he had the mumps and his birthday party was canceled.

Fast forward to 2019. His God-Mother passes away, having named Jimmy to be her executor. She has no children and leaves her estate in equal parts to her six nephews.

It's fairly modest, a $200,000 house and a couple small bank accounts. 

While cleaning out the house and going through his Aunts things, he finds a plain paper bag and inside it are eight comic books and a birthday card made out to him, dated July 1962. It's from the cancelled birthday party.

Two of the cousins are there helping out and everyone gets a kick out of Jimmy finding such a blast from the past and without dissent agree it belongs to Jimmy.

Jimmy takes the bag home and shows it to his family and his oldest sons eyes pop out. The first book is Journey Into Mystery 83, but the second is Amazing Fantasy 15.  A quick computer search shows the books might be worth $300,000.

The books were clearly bought as a gift for Jimmy ,but are they his or his Aunts. Did the two cousins who gave their consent to Jimmy taking them lose their rights to the books, if they ever had any.

Do you think the final legal fight over the books will exceed the value of the books?

[Murphman13]

That is one heckuva story. I'm not an attorney but I can tell you that if the decedent left a will that leaves her entire estate to her nephews, it will be hard for Jimmy to justify his legal right to ownership of the books unless all the heirs agree to forfeit them after they are informed of their true value.

btw, as the executor, Jimmy would be required to list those books at  fmv during the probate process so the clerk of court and the heirs would eventually find out their true worth. 

[oldbsturgeon]

Everything and everyone is cool until they’re not

[wilbil]

43 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Jimmy Collins was born in  July 1954.  In the summer of 1962, he had the mumps and his birthday party was canceled.

Fast forward to 2019. His God-Mother passes away, having named Jimmy to be her executor. She has no children and leaves her estate in equal parts to her six nephews.

It's fairly modest, a $200,000 house and a couple small bank accounts. 

While cleaning out the house and going through his Aunts things, he finds a plain paper bag and inside it are eight comic books and a birthday card made out to him, dated July 1962. It's from the cancelled birthday party.

Two of the cousins are there helping out and everyone gets a kick out of Jimmy finding such a blast from the past and without dissent agree it belongs to Jimmy.

Jimmy takes the bag home and shows it to his family and his oldest sons eyes pop out. The first book is Journey Into Mystery 83, but the second is Amazing Fantasy 15.  A quick computer search shows the books might be worth $300,000.

The books were clearly bought as a gift for Jimmy ,but are they his or his Aunts. Did the two cousins who gave their consent to Jimmy taking them lose their rights to the books, if they ever had any.

Do you think the final legal fight over the books will exceed the value of the books?

wasn't this same story, changed just a little, posted before?

[MK Ultra]

I wonder if there are reprints of the issues in question.

[kav]

I am not a lawyer but it seems to me a gift is not legally a gift until it is actually given.  In that case Jimmy loses.
As far as the heirs handing the books to jimmy because they thought it was already a legal gift, that is not giving a gift themselves so would not qualify.  Jimmy needs to return the books.

Edited May 26, 2020 by kav

[Hollywood1892]

10 minutes ago, kav said:

I am not a lawyer but it seems to me a gift is not legally a gift until it is actually given.  In that case Jimmy loses.
As far as the heirs handing the books to jimmy because they thought it was already a legal gift, that is not giving a gift themselves so would not qualify.  Jimmy needs to return the books.

I completely disagree

She intended to give the gifts to Jimmy

Its negligent on her part, and the honorable thing is for them to allow Jimmy possession of the books...is money thicker then blood?

[kav]

3 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I completely disagree

She intended to give the gifts to Jimmy

Its negligent on her part, and the honorable thing is for them to allow Jimmy possession of the books...is money thicker then blood?

I'm speaking legally.  Morally, Jimmy gets the books.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

This sounds like a job for...

 

[Hollywood1892]

Just now, kav said:

I'm speaking legally.  Morally, Jimmy gets the books.

Had the books been given to Jimmy as a kid then no doubt he would have used them and ruined them and they wouldn't be worth $300,000 but because he didn't and they were untouched is why they are worth that much today...and that is where the argument lies....

But in all seriousness the books went untouched for that long I imagine graded they would be worth significantly more

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

As a birthday gift intended for someone but which was never given, you could argue the books do indeed belong to the intended recipient, and the value of the books now should be irrelevant.

But that's in an ideal world where lawyers don't get their pound of flesh and where relatives are not grasping greedy so and so's.

Something about this story sounds contrived to me. I have difficulty swallowing it. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by G G ®

[vheflin]

4 minutes ago, G G ® said:

This sounds like a job for...

 

I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who says Jimmy should slab these books, sell 'em then go to Vegas.

[Hollywood1892]

2 minutes ago, vheflin said:

I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who says Jimmy should slab these books, sell 'em then go to Vegas.

 

[Comics4All]

1 hour ago, kav said:

I am not a lawyer but it seems to me a gift is not legally a gift until it is actually given.  In that case Jimmy loses.
As far as the heirs handing the books to jimmy because they thought it was already a legal gift, that is not giving a gift themselves so would not qualify.  Jimmy needs to return the books.

@kav is not a lawyer but he plays one on CGC!

 

[shadroch]

1 hour ago, G G ® said:

As a birthday gift intended for someone but which was never given, you could argue the books do indeed belong to the intended recipient, and the value of the books now should be irrelevant.

But that's in an ideal world where lawyers don't get their pound of flesh and where relatives are not grasping greedy so and so's.

Something about this story sounds contrived to me. I have difficulty swallowing it. 

As I said, it's a hypothetical loosely based on real circumstances.

Neither Jimmy or his Aunt exists, as far as I know.

 

About a decade ago, a scrap dealer found a bag that had slipped into a space behind a drawer in a steel desk he bought. In it were a few comics and a birthday card. One of the books was Detective 27. That story was real. This is not. Sorry if that wasn't clear. 

[Number 6]

I understand that in this scenario the birthday card with the comics is supposed to indicate “intent”. 
 

However, I imagine that a motivated lawyer could probably successfully argue that the fact that the godmother didn’t give little Jimmy these comics on any of his subsequent birthdays indicates the godmother’s “intent” for the comics changed.  And/or that her “intent” was to give him reading material worth 20 cents, not 70 year-old collectibles worth $300,000. 
 

I also understand that the nieces and nephews freely allowing Jimmy to take the books is supposed to indicate release of ownership of the books. 
 

However, the release was verbal, it was done without knowledge of the books’ current value, and there’s a plurality of nieces/nephews who, if persuaded to change their story, would outnumber Jimmy. 
 

I’m not a lawyer, I have no knowledge of the laws that relate to this case nor the kind of legal fees that would incur. 
 

The original question was “will the legal fight over the books exceed the value of the books?”

I don’t know but I certainly think it’s possible. I also that think that if there is anything left for Jimmy and/or the nieces and nephews that it would such as to make all parties feel it wasn’t worth it in the end. 
 

Personally, I hate conflict and confrontation. And at the end of the day, it’s found money. 
 

I know this wasn’t the question but if I were in Jimmy’s shoes I’d approach the nieces and nephews, say here’s what these are worth, and propose selling the books and splitting the proceeds. If cartoon dollar signs pop up in their eyes and they get all grabby-grabby, I’d just hand them the books and walk away with a cool story. 
 

edit: typing this while Shadroch replies above

Edited May 26, 2020 by Number 6

[Gaard]

1 hour ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I completely disagree

She intended to give the gifts to Jimmy

Its negligent on her part, and the honorable thing is for them to allow Jimmy possession of the books...is money thicker then blood?

Honorable? Jimmy doesn't seem too honorable, IMO. It would never even enter my mind to keep them (or the value of them) all to myself.

[seanfingh]

5 hours ago, shadroch said:

 

Do you think the final legal fight over the books will exceed the value of the books?

Maybe. We do wealth transfer cases all the time, and I would take either Jimmy’s case or the nephew’s case. I would also take either case on contingency. They both have enough interesting facts that I believe that nine times out of ten the baby would be split.

In most Jurisdictions, Jimmy would have to resign as Executor.

I also think in most jurisdictions the gift was not completed due to lack of tender of possession.

The most interesting fact is that they subsequently “gave” him the book. I bet jurisdictions are all over the road on that type of fact. I doubt it would carry the day, but maybe.

its a great fact pattern.

 

[KirbyJack]

The deceased thought about Jimmy. She named him executor. With Jimmy in mind, she still wanted all of her assets to go to her 6 heirs.

I like Number 6's solution. "approach the nieces and nephews, say here’s what these are worth, and propose selling the books and splitting the proceeds. If cartoon dollar signs pop up in their eyes and they get all grabby-grabby, I’d just hand them the books and walk away with a cool story." 
 

[01TheDude]

I would assume most of the nieces and nephews were getting up there in age in general. Best solution is to be fair to ALL--- liquidate/or share all the assets (in case some items are also family treasures) equally.

From a legal standpoint-- I suppose people could start fighting over this stuff but it seems like the second you get more lawyers involved, only the lawyers win.