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Better artist of that era-Byrne or Perez.
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239 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, kav said:

you cannot say things like 'opinions are not always correct'.  You have to understand the meaning of the word 'opinion'.

And, you are right, as long as it’s truly an opinion being voiced.

If you tell me your opinion is that Rob Liefeld draws anatomy well, I’m going to tell you your ‘opinion’ is just flat out wrong.  See: anti vaxxers 

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Just now, 500Club said:

And, you are right, as long as it’s truly an opinion being voiced.

If you tell me your opinion is that Rob Liefeld draws anatomy well, I’m going to tell you your ‘opinion’ is just flat out wrong.  See: anti vaxxers 

saying liefeld draws anatomy well would be a statement of fact-because you can compare his drawings with actual human anatomy.  As long as by 'well' you meant 'accurate'.  

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4 minutes ago, kav said:
6 minutes ago, 500Club said:

And, you are right, as long as it’s truly an opinion being voiced.

If you tell me your opinion is that Rob Liefeld draws anatomy well, I’m going to tell you your ‘opinion’ is just flat out wrong.  See: anti vaxxers 

saying liefeld draws anatomy well would be a statement of fact-because you can compare his drawings with actual human anatomy.  As long as by 'well' you meant 'accurate'.  

LOL... this is where we :tink:

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On 5/28/2020 at 1:16 PM, kav said:

I'm arguing with someone on face book who claims
"Many John Byrne comics are undervalued. Change my mind. He’s his generation’s Neal Adams.  I just think Byrne goes down as his era’s greatest."
I stated 
"the problem with byrne is he can only draw one male face and one female face. he just changes hair. many comic artists are guilty of this but byrne takes it to whole new level.
Adams drew different faces. he could also draw children. Byrne's children look like adult midgets.  Perez is the greatest artist of that era.  orig art for byrne can be found cheap. perez is pricey. that says it all.

So whats the consensus-who will go down as the better artist of that era?

Like Kirby. Always the same face.

 

btw, Perez. 

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3 minutes ago, jcjames said:

Like Kirby. Always the same face.

 

btw, Perez. 

Most comic artists are guilty of this to some degree-even Kneel Atoms and Perez.  In my opinion Byrne is even more formulaic than most.  Sean Phillips is the exception-he draws different faces!

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8 hours ago, 500Club said:

Almost.  In the case of comic book art, there are a few artistic concepts that verge on fact.  Construction and use of two point perspective, three point perspective and vanishing points tend to be pretty concrete and geometrical, as does human anatomy.  In fact, as a Byrne voter, I do agree that his rendering of female faces is limited, and based on evidence, this is more than just opinion.

Also, there's been no discussion about using 'facts' or 'models' to prove one artist is better than another.  This really only came up with the suggestion that Byrne has an issue with perspective. 

You're debating with a guy who says art is opinion, but started a thread with the question about who is better...yet saying it can't be quantified.

:ohnoez:

 

Not to mention that a lot of his "opinions" can be proven wrong.

For example, perspective is either correct or it isn't, there is no "feeling" about it.

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1 minute ago, Logan510 said:

You're debating with a guy who says art is opinion, but started a thread with the question about who is better...yet saying it can't be quantified.

:ohnoez:

 

Not to mention that a lot of his "opinions" can be proven wrong.

For example, perspective is either correct or it isn't, there is no "feeling" about it.

Settle down.

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1 minute ago, Marshall Crist said:

I did like me some Perez AVENGERS circa 1976-7.  That crossover with SUPER-VILLAIN TEAM-UP was my gateway to Marvel.

I prefer Byrne's writing to his art.

I was a big avengers fan and when Perez did the first issue it was fairly crude but I fell in love with it immediately.  Every single issue he leapt forward in skill.  He is one of the rare comics artists that just got better and better the older he got.

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9 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

Yep, all the same.

 

unnamed.jpg

I dont think a character sheet specifically designed to show how to draw racial differences qualifies as he drew different faces in his books.  Plus as 'racial differences' they are pretty weak attempts.  What 'race' is the woman lower left supposed to be, for one example?
 

Screenshot 2020-05-29 at 7.51.20 PM.png

Edited by kav
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Just now, Logan510 said:

I get it, all his faces look the same...except when they don't.

 

:facepalm:

Now if he could draw a bunch of say white males with different faces. like Sean Phillips. now that would qualify.

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Most of his male heroes have the same face as reed richards, and female heroines have the same face as sue storm.  You either see it or ya dont I guess.

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i was the biggest byrne fan on earth when he did xmen with terry austin. he was my god. then he started inking himself on ff and the magic just evaporated for me. it probably didnt help that the ff are three boring looking white people plus the thing, compared to the very diverse and cool looking group of characters in the xmen. i stuck with him on alpha flight because i loved vindicator's costume. of course he killed him off promptly. but by then i found the 'looser' byrne kind of boring. at the same time i read the teen titans. though their stories were not quite as compelling as the claremont xmen stuff, the art was amazing. when marvel and dc did the xmen/titans crossover book i think i had a religious experience.

anyway, it didnt take much for me as a 14 year old to realize how repetitive byrne's work really was, and that terry austin's inking was half the magic. though i never followed perez much either after that period, i do think he's a more well rounded artist. his style is less 'stylized' perhaps. byrne may not really draw the same face over and over, but it always felt like that to me. not with perez. and i know we can say this about kirby, romita, buscema too. all i know is that i got over byrne a long time ago and many others seem to have too. he's still a great and important artist.

let's add frank miller to the comversation to liven it up even more!

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