Better artist of that era-Byrne or Perez. 3 3

[kav]

This may be one of the best threads in a while!

[Ken Aldred]

16 hours ago, JJ-4 said:

Perez became a co-plotter or co-writer with Wolfman (and maybe even co-editor) on NTT and rolled off that very successful book to Crisis where he drew the majority of DC characters.  Both were massive hits and then we went on to re-boot Wonder Woman, where he wrote, drew and did covers.  He was THE top artist at DC for multiple years.  The NTT run was the basis of the rebirth of DC and it had a lasting impact all the way to the hit Teen Titans Go! TV show are still being felt today.

On my part, a case of ‘didn’t do the research’, but also that I don’t find most of the Titans and Wonder Woman issues you mentioned to be particularly memorable as runs, apart from some Teen Titans, such as ‘Killers of the Doom Patrol‘, ‘Runaways’, ‘Who is Donna Troy ?’ and, of course, ‘The Judas Contract’.  That said, for me, even those stories don’t feel like they’re up at the consistently all-time classic level of Byrne’s X-Men, and I still believe that Byrne proved himself far, far more as a writer, whether in partnership or alone.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Ken Aldred

[F For Fake]

23 hours ago, William-James88 said:

The best artist of that era is Brian Bolland. I also have a real soft spot for Sienkewicz. Perez and Byrne are good but they are very much the meat and potatoes kind, not offering a truly distinctive style. Perez could have done X-Men and Byrne could have done Teen Titans and I think the world of comics would still be pretty much the same. 

To be sure, I love Bolland. LOVE him. He's one of the all time greats, for sure. But in this particular discussion I think we have to weight the fact that Byrne and Perez could actually turn out a monthly book. Bolland, beautiful as his stuff is, couldn't even get a 12 issue mini series out in a timely fashion. Put all of the work side by side, sure, Bolland wins on the level of pure artistry. Gorgeous stuff. But tally up the number of books put out consistently and at a generally high level, I think Byrne and Perez would get the win. I prefer Bolland all in all, but "better artist of the era" would also have to include the ability to get the books out on time, I'd think.

[jjonahjameson11]

So when we try to answer which is the best of their era, there's potential for a huge shift in preference depending upon the years specified.  Personally, I see Byrne's influence as the 'top artist' of the era ending shortly after FF 250.  The art looked more rushed, lacked much of the finer details (to my eyes), and became just 'OK'.  Suddenly, I didn't feel compelled to pick up the latest Byrne FF book or subsequent titles, and I started to stay away from his stuff with Namor, She-Hulk, etc.  There were other artists who proved far more interesting to me at that time, and anything they worked on got my money.

As Byrne started his descent, I felt it was right around the time I truly noticed how great Perez was, not just on NTT, but Crisis, and a host of other projects he dabbled in.

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by jjonahjameson11

[JJ-4]

38 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

On my part, a case of ‘didn’t do the research’, but also that I don’t find most of the Titans and Wonder Woman issues you mentioned to be particularly memorable as runs, apart from some Teen Titans, such as ‘Killers of the Doom Patrol‘, ‘Runaways’, ‘Who is Donna Troy ?’ and, of course, ‘The Judas Contract’.  That said, for me, even those stories don’t feel like they’re up at the consistently all-time classic level of Byrne’s X-Men, and I still believe that Byrne proved himself far, far more as a writer, whether in partnership or alone.

I guess agree to disagree.

I read a some of Byrne's run on Wonder Woman, very basic story telling, phoned in art, when compared to the Perez on the same character, with the way Perez rebooted the character (from a writing standpoint bringing in the Greek mythology, and the detail he put in showing Themyscira was incredible.  it couldn't be clearer which creator was "better".

I like Byrne as and enjoyed his work on X-Men but it was a bit of being on the right book at the right time and having Austin create a very clean line (going back to books we are liked as kids, rose colored glasses as all).  Notice how everyone who talks about him on this thread barely bring up any books he's worked on in the last 30 years (no mentions of his WW, Next Men, Star Trek, etc.)  He just hasn't had much of an impact on the industry where Perez just seemed to care more and kept refining and getting better at his craft over the years (Busiek/Perez on Avengers, JLA/Avengers, his Brave and Bold was well received).

If anything Perez was just a bit slow as he wanted to keep raising his game.  His very detailed work on the Crimson Plague issues had hundreds of individual fans drawn into the backgrounds. (I don't know of another artist that could or would draw that many people so distinctly as to be able to identify them, truly amazing).  

[Ken Aldred]

5 minutes ago, JJ-4 said:

I read a some of Byrne's run on Wonder Woman, very basic story telling, phoned in art, when compared to the Perez on the same character,

I agree.  From the mid 90s onwards there was a decline in quality, and that includes Wonder Woman and his later work at Marvel such as Spider-Man.  On Wonder Woman, Perez was far superior.

I thought Namor was consistently readable, Omac had some great black-and-white artwork and a good story, and Next Men was an excellent continuous narrative, but after that I didn't find his material that interesting.

[ItsJustRyan]

Too hard to pick. They both are comic god artists.

[kav]

In other news, I cant believe Perez and others use a pencil that they have to sharpen.  Half their drawing time must be spent sharpening and shavings up the yin yang.  I stopped doing that decades ago I use a 0.5 mechanical-always sharp.

[jjonahjameson11]

6 minutes ago, kav said:

In other news, I cant believe Perez and others use a pencil that they have to sharpen.  Half their drawing time must be spent sharpening and shavings up the yin yang.  I stopped doing that decades ago I use a 0.5 mechanical-always sharp.

Yeah, those darn boomers with their  non-mechanical pencils!  There outta be a law! 🤣

Edited June 2, 2020 by jjonahjameson11

[kav]

2 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Yeah, those darn boomers with their  non-mechanical pencils!  There outta be a law! 🤣

plus they use a regular #2 pencil-WTF

[Ken Aldred]

13 minutes ago, kav said:

In other news, I cant believe Perez and others use a pencil that they have to sharpen.  Half their drawing time must be spent sharpening and shavings up the yin yang.  I stopped doing that decades ago I use a 0.5 mechanical-always sharp.

I scribble notes using a 0.5, either a Zebra Drafix or M-301.

Not just for artists.

[kav]

11 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

I scribble notes using a 0.5, either a Zebra Drafix or M-301.

Not just for artists.

I have an aviator B3 tri-pen.  Black ink, red ink, pencil.  I used to carry 3 separate as I needed each of these.

Edited June 2, 2020 by kav

[kav]

note-that is not how the pencil looks deployed-it is 1/2 way there in the image.  A pencil like that would be useless.

[bb8]

2 hours ago, kav said:

This may be one of the best threads in a while!

I wonder who started it?

[kav]

Just now, bb8 said:

I wonder who started it?

super genius most likely

[Comics4All]

19 hours ago, kav said:

plus they use a regular #2 pencil-WTF

It's also good for taking tests with a Scan tron!

 

[Logan510]

On 6/2/2020 at 1:13 PM, kav said:

plus they use a regular #2 pencil-WTF

Byrne uses a lead holder.

He has used several different tools including mechanical pencils and regular old Faber Castell, but he went back to the lead holder.

[kav]

11 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

Byrne uses a lead holder.

He has used several different tools including mechanical pencils and regular old Faber Castell, but he went back to the lead holder.

you still gotta sharpen a lead holder lead.  messy.  Time consuming.

Edited June 3, 2020 by kav

[Logan510]

Just now, kav said:

you still gotta sharpen a lead holder lead.  messy.  Time consuming.

It's also better IMHO

I hated using mechanical pencils and quickly moved away from them...but then again I was never published in MAD so what do I know.

[kav]

2 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

It's also better IMHO

I hated using mechanical pencils and quickly moved away from them...but then again I was never published in MAD so what do I know.

I did lead holders for a while-def better than #2 or any pencil that needs sharpening but a 0.5 mechanical is a sharp point all the time.