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So disappointing...
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94 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, KCOComics said:

Buying raw can be tough. And when you get to that NM range it's nearly impossible to distinguish between a 9.4 and a 9.6 (at least for me)

My advice is,  spend some time learning to grade. Watch YouTube videos,  study graders notes, ask questions in the spare a grade area.... Your wallet will thank you. 

As an aside, I'm not a good grader.  I can usually get within a range,  but I'm wrong more than right.  With raw books,  my buying philosophy is based on worse case scenarios and downside risk.  I don't steer clear of raw,  but outside of a few dealers,  I don't trust anyone's assigned grade and try to only pay for what I think the lowest possible outcome would be. 

I have worked hard to identify restoration through pictures.

Other than that,  if you want a sure thing, buy them slabbed.  You pay more to avoid the risk. 

Good advice.  This industry, if you're buying items worried about the cost or your 'investment', then you really need to learn how to grade or just stick to buying graded books.  I laugh every time I see local flippers buying books from Gerry Ross to grade and flip....those guys are so far out of their league they have no idea.  

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I appreciate all the advice.  I've been trying to learn to grade for quite a while... and I thought those two books in particular looked like 8.5-9.0's compared to the other graded books I have and what I've learned about grading.  Plus, that's how the dealers graded them, so I felt pretty sure they'd get at least an 8.5.  Oh well.   The light staining on the Conan called out by @Lazyboy is basically imperceptible to me.  I think it might be in the lower left FC, but it's really hard for me to tell... Not sure if the pix are good enough for anyone else to do so.  The book is very sharp otherwise.  I'm kicking myself of course... At some point, I might try to upgrade, but honestly the copy I have looks very nice so I'm going to just try to enjoy it!

Anyway, as @thehumantorch suggested, I think I'm going to avoid raw books that are over $100 or so from now on.  Not worth the risk for me.

However, I am total Steranko nut, and I've got a bunch of books that I'd like to send in for this upcoming in-house signing.  I've got quite a few, and dups of a couple.... I have a bunch of mid-grades, and a few higher grades, but now I'm starting to doubt. Can't justify/afford to get them all signed & slabbed, so you may see me over in PGM asking for input on some of them.  Now I'm also wondering which of them (if any) I should get cleaned/pressed.  

Is there a good thread/reference about which books are good candidates for clean & press?  It sounds like  pressing has been around for a while, I guess I wasn't aware of it when I was collecting back in the 90s.  So I need to get up to speed.

Thanks again for your thoughts.  I don't really know any other comic collectors so it's really nice to hear from more experienced hands.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, spreads said:

Good advice.  This industry, if you're buying items worried about the cost or your 'investment', then you really need to learn how to grade or just stick to buying graded books.  I laugh every time I see local flippers buying books from Gerry Ross to grade and flip....those guys are so far out of their league they have no idea.  

I agree... and I personally don't look at collecting as an investment.  It's mui hobby that brings me great joy. But I do hate over paying for anything. 

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1 hour ago, spreads said:

You're a person_having_a_hard_time_understanding_my_point if you think otherwise.  Boomer.

Sorry if you don't understand about buying low and selling high. Look it up. It actually works for other things besides comics too. 

Edited by oldrover
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10 hours ago, oldrover said:

Sorry if you don't understand about buying low and selling high. Look it up. It actually works for other things besides comics too. 

You're right, I don't understand buying low and selling high having been a professional equity trader for over a decade.  And then another 7 years as an institutional trader. 

If you want to get into a contest about asset classes, investing, etc I'm more than welcome to do that in a different forum.  Maybe I'll tell you about my buddy that had 4 losing days over a six year period arbing the specialist system on the NYSE?  Even though I doubt you understand any of that....

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10 hours ago, crandmck said:

I appreciate all the advice.  I've been trying to learn to grade for quite a while... and I thought those two books in particular looked like 8.5-9.0's compared to the other graded books I have and what I've learned about grading.  Plus, that's how the dealers graded them, so I felt pretty sure they'd get at least an 8.5.  Oh well.   The light staining on the Conan called out by @Lazyboy is basically imperceptible to me.  I think it might be in the lower left FC, but it's really hard for me to tell... Not sure if the pix are good enough for anyone else to do so.  The book is very sharp otherwise.  I'm kicking myself of course... At some point, I might try to upgrade, but honestly the copy I have looks very nice so I'm going to just try to enjoy it!

Anyway, as @thehumantorch suggested, I think I'm going to avoid raw books that are over $100 or so from now on.  Not worth the risk for me.

However, I am total Steranko nut, and I've got a bunch of books that I'd like to send in for this upcoming in-house signing.  I've got quite a few, and dups of a couple.... I have a bunch of mid-grades, and a few higher grades, but now I'm starting to doubt. Can't justify/afford to get them all signed & slabbed, so you may see me over in PGM asking for input on some of them.  Now I'm also wondering which of them (if any) I should get cleaned/pressed.  

Is there a good thread/reference about which books are good candidates for clean & press?  It sounds like  pressing has been around for a while, I guess I wasn't aware of it when I was collecting back in the 90s.  So I need to get up to speed.

Thanks again for your thoughts.  I don't really know any other comic collectors so it's really nice to hear from more experienced hands.

 

 

There are a lot of well known pressers (on this board and elsewhere), you can easily find them.   If you're submitting to CGC I use their CCS service, however, the TATs for CCS are absolutely atrocious so you need to be patient. 

I have a WK book at CGC right now that I sent to CCS; for me the risk of having to deal with an additional third party is not worth the added benefit of saving time.  So although CGC would take a few hours for a Walkthrough book, it's taking up to 10 business days for the press.  I feel like if there's ever an issue with pressing, I'd rather have a complaint vs CCS/CGC than anyone else.  

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On 5/29/2020 at 1:58 AM, crandmck said:

Just got some books back from CGC.  For the most part, the grades were about what I expected, except for two of them that I purchased from (what I thought were) reputable dealers.  They both came back at 7.0, but one (Conan #1) was graded by the dealer as VF/NM and the other (Iron Man & Subby #1) was graded by the dealer as VF/NM to NM-.  Not only am I disappointed, but I feel ripped off, because I paid a couple hundred bucks too much for these books, apparently!  I bought one book online and one at a show.  I could understand if the grade were off by 1.0, but 2 whole points!  Jeez!  

Honestly, the Conan is very sharp. I know I'm not a very good grader, but when I compare it to the DD#5 (in the same batch and also 7.0) it looks WAY nicer, no comparison.  It seems like at least a VF, but... *sigh*

Here are the grader's notes:

Conan the Barbarian 1 10/70 Marvel Comics

light bends to cover
light cover tanning
light spine stress lines to cover
light staining to cover

Iron Man and Sub-Mariner 1 4/68 Marvel Comics

light creasing to cover
light finger bends on cover
light spine stress lines to cover
moderate cover tanning

Should I have had either of these pressed?  Water under the bridge, now, but for future reference...?

This will be the last time I "believe" the grade from any dealer--until I get better at grading, at least.  And apparently buying a raw book online is just a big gamble... even from a well-known dealer.

Is it common to have the CGC grade be so far off from the dealer grade?

Also overlooked when buying a book. Tanning gets hammered these days, as it should. I have seen books that are structurally 9.4 or better come back in the 7.5-8.5 range depending on how severe the tanning was. 

The staining has already been mentioned. 

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I try not to buy books with stains on them, sometimes they are easily missed. Fingerprints is another grade killer, put a fingerprint on a 9.8 book and it'll come back a 9.2.  Foxing/tanning another grade killer.  Look for nice corners, that upper right hand corner on the Conan book is awful. I would have passed if I had seen that.   

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2 hours ago, spreads said:

You're right, I don't understand buying low and selling high having been a professional equity trader for over a decade.  And then another 7 years as an institutional trader. 

Apparently not.

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9 minutes ago, oldrover said:

LOL... sadly, to do as well as I did, you might need one of these...

 

image.gif.be440e883607ace21daad57701c08643.gif

Please share your exceptional knowledge on how to make money with comics, so we can crown you Lord of CGC!  Once you become the Lord, you get free grading for life!

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33 minutes ago, joeypost said:

Most have trouble with the concept of grading. I had a customer maybe 12 years ago who had way more money than comic knowledge. He would buy books and go "this is a slam dunk 8.0" and I would have to rain on his parade pointing out everything that was wrong with the book. Then when the grade would come back the one I predicted, he would get mad at me. Needless to say after going round and round a couple of times, I asked him to find someone else to submit his books through. He stopped posting here many years ago, he probably found a more secure way to grow his capital. Sadly, his is far from an isolated story. 

I bet you encounter lots of 'experts' when it comes to grading.  This particular user, did his name rhyme with boldrover?

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1 hour ago, spreads said:

Please share your exceptional knowledge on how to make money with comics, so we can crown you Lord of CGC!  Once you become the Lord, you get free grading for life!

Really, I got lucky. Had a little windfall in 2002...sunk it all into Marvel comics thinking they would appreciate... waited 17 years... and I sold.

It just HAPPENED to be during the time when Marvel hit the big screen. Which MIGHT have had something to do with it.;)

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On 5/28/2020 at 11:39 PM, Myowncollector said:

Would have to see the books in person to know for sure. Pics would help but before slabbed would be better. No biggie cause I don't like looking at pics of a book unless I am buying it. Won't see me too often in spare a grade thread. 

Based on graders notes I would of pressed and don't forget cleaned both. "Light" is a graders note I like. "Bends" is even better. Majority of comic buyers can't grade. Look at how many please grade my there are. How many wrong answers. Seen one that cgc gave a 9.6 and people told the guy it was a 8.0 8.5 7.5 Dealers are in this group as well. A lot more can grade but not all. More importantly they know people cant grade so they will grade high. I will guess you bought your books from a mega dealer out of NY. 2nd guess would be Colorado. If not dealer might have graded right. He assumed you would be part if the 96% of people that press their books before having them graded.

Because those are the only two sellers who might possibly overgrade? 

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53 minutes ago, oldrover said:

Really, I got lucky. Had a little windfall in 2002...sunk it all into Marvel comics thinking they would appreciate... waited 17 years... and I sold.

It just HAPPENED to be during the time when Marvel hit the big screen. Which MIGHT have had something to do with it.;)

Pics or Fake default_redcapes.png&key=130048ef8618235

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17 hours ago, spreads said:

Good advice.  This industry, if you're buying items worried about the cost or your 'investment', then you really need to learn how to grade or just stick to buying graded books.  I laugh every time I see local flippers buying books from Gerry Ross to grade and flip....those guys are so far out of their league they have no idea.  

I won't go near Gerry's booth.

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2 hours ago, joeypost said:

Most have trouble with the concept of grading. I had a customer maybe 12 years ago who had way more money than comic knowledge. He would buy books and go "this is a slam dunk 8.0" and I would have to rain on his parade pointing out everything that was wrong with the book. Then when the grade would come back the one I predicted, he would get mad at me. Needless to say after going round and round a couple of times, I asked him to find someone else to submit his books through. He stopped posting here many years ago, he probably found a more secure way to grow his capital. Sadly, his is far from an isolated story. 

Agreed on all points Joe.  Collecting comics is a great hobby but there is a lot to know and a lot of overpriced books and bad sellers out there.

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11 minutes ago, Chaos_in_Canada said:

Pics or Fake default_redcapes.png&key=130048ef8618235

Look up my threads here over the past two years:

AF15, FF1, 3 FF48's, 49's and 50's... JIM 83-86, TOS39, a LOT of ASM's, 3 X-Men 1's, 4 GSXM1's, Hulk 1, 2 Avengers 1's, 2 Avengers 4's, 2 DD1's, 2 TTA27's, 35's and 44's... plus 10 longboxes full of partial and complete runs, many of which I wound up pressing (thanks, joeypost!), slabbing and selling. The rest I sold raw, either individually or in bulk. I think the only major SA Marvel key I didn't have was ST110.

Sold a few here, but mostly on eBay... handle: oldrov.

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