So disappointing... 0

[theCapraAegagrus]

15 hours ago, Angelo. said:

saying comics are a bad investment is like saying the stock market is a bad investment......it all depends on the comic and the stock you choose to purchase.  Comics can be very good investments if you bought/buy the right books for the right price at the right time.

A massive difference being that investment in stocks is liquid money. A collectible has to actually sell for you to get your potential assets in cash.

The 401k market hasn't been around long enough to see whether or not it's a great retirement investment. It's a good place to put your money, at least temporarily, though.

[Genuine Article Comics]

21 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

A massive difference being that investment in stocks is liquid money. A collectible has to actually sell for you to get your potential assets in cash.

The 401k market hasn't been around long enough to see whether or not it's a great retirement investment. It's a good place to put your money, at least temporarily, though.

I agree with this but certain books at certain prices are virtually liquid.

It'd be interesting to compare the cost of AC1 or TEC27, AF15 etc back in the mid 1990s vs. the cost today...then take the same $ amount spent on these comics from the mid 1990s and buy (top tier stock like Amazon and Google) and also compare it to the average stock increase of the entire market. I'd bet the comics out perform the entire average stock market performance but probably not these two elite stocks....but the comics probably performed extremely well.

[spreads]

6 hours ago, Keys_Collector said:

 

I bet the guys with name 'Keys Collector' definitely wants to hear that comics may (gasp) lose value!   Do every one of your sales end with the tagline, 'guaranteed to go up!'.  LOL

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by spreads

[spreads]

10 minutes ago, Angelo. said:

I agree with this but certain books at certain prices are virtually liquid.

It'd be interesting to compare the cost of AC1 or TEC27, AF15 etc back in the mid 1990s vs. the cost today...then take the same $ amount spent on these comics from the mid 1990s and buy (top tier stock like Amazon and Google) and also compare it to the average stock increase of the entire market. I'd bet the comics out perform the entire average stock market performance but probably not these two elite stocks....but the comics probably performed extremely well.

You can't compare those top tier comics to the entire universe index of stocks, it doesn't work that way.  

[Keys_Collector]

7 minutes ago, spreads said:

I bet the guys with name 'Keys Collector' definitely wants to hear that comics may (gasp) lose value!   Do every one of your sales end with the tagline, 'guaranteed to go up!'.  LOL

 

Trying to lure me into this slap fest? Are you now the stirrer of back and forth on these boards?

You can check my sales posts on Instagram and i've only had 1 here so far.  Never do I say "guaranteed to go up" as I only state the facts about the book regarding what it is and its condition.

Obviously comics will fluctuate and there will be a down turn for many especially modern spec books which I don't collect or hype up.  In case you are doing what others have done, I am not Nick from key collector comics.

[spreads]

14 minutes ago, Keys_Collector said:

Trying to lure me into this slap fest? Are you now the stirrer of back and forth on these boards?

You can check my sales posts on Instagram and i've only had 1 here so far.  Never do I say "guaranteed to go up" as I only state the facts about the book regarding what it is and its condition.

Obviously comics will fluctuate and there will be a down turn for many especially modern spec books which I don't collect or hype up.  In case you are doing what others have done, I am not Nick from key collector comics.

It's a joke, relax.  Don't post stupid memes if you can't take a little bit of ribbing.

[William-James88]

On 5/29/2020 at 1:58 AM, crandmck said:

Just got some books back from CGC.  For the most part, the grades were about what I expected, except for two of them that I purchased from (what I thought were) reputable dealers.  They both came back at 7.0, but one (Conan #1) was graded by the dealer as VF/NM and the other (Iron Man & Subby #1) was graded by the dealer as VF/NM to NM-.  Not only am I disappointed, but I feel ripped off, because I paid a couple hundred bucks too much for these books, apparently!  I bought one book online and one at a show.  I could understand if the grade were off by 1.0, but 2 whole points!  Jeez!  

Honestly, the Conan is very sharp. I know I'm not a very good grader, but when I compare it to the DD#5 (in the same batch and also 7.0) it looks WAY nicer, no comparison.  It seems like at least a VF, but... *sigh*

Here are the grader's notes:

Conan the Barbarian 1 10/70 Marvel Comics

light bends to cover
light cover tanning
light spine stress lines to cover
light staining to cover

Iron Man and Sub-Mariner 1 4/68 Marvel Comics

light creasing to cover
light finger bends on cover
light spine stress lines to cover
moderate cover tanning

Should I have had either of these pressed?  Water under the bridge, now, but for future reference...?

This will be the last time I "believe" the grade from any dealer--until I get better at grading, at least.  And apparently buying a raw book online is just a big gamble... even from a well-known dealer.

Is it common to have the CGC grade be so far off from the dealer grade?

Yes it is common, CGC grades are very off from anything being sold raw at commic connect, for instance. But that doesn't make CGC wrong, it means the dealer overgraded or missed something. The dealer can say whatever they want. But not CGC, they have to conform to their guidelines across the board, hence the grading notes.

And those help, by the way. Judging from the notes, the Conan book could not get higher after pressing since there is staining, which pressing wont remove. Pressing is mainly good at one big thing, getting rid of non colour breaking creases. there's more of course (like slight folds at corners and light dirt and getting rid of markings if someone wrote on a piece of paper with the comic under it), but that's the one that will have the biggest impact on the book most of the time.

So for your books, it might be good for the Iron man and Submariner book but even then if the spine stress they speak of has colour breaks, then the pressing wont fix that,nor the tanning. It will however fix the light creases. How much would that impact the book, I don't know, we'd have to see it.

Edited June 1, 2020 by William-James88

[spreads]

8 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

A massive difference being that investment in stocks is liquid money. A collectible has to actually sell for you to get your potential assets in cash.

The 401k market hasn't been around long enough to see whether or not it's a great retirement investment. It's a good place to put your money, at least temporarily, though.

Not just that, there's usually significant tax advantages by investing in registered products.  We haven't even talked about counter party risk, transactional risk, and any of the many risks of physically having the item (theft, fire, negligence, cats, children, etc.)

So far every one on the comic cheerleaders have looked at strictly total return, which completely ignores many of the risk components of the equation.

Edited June 2, 2020 by spreads
edit

[Myowncollector]

24 minutes ago, spreads said:

We haven't even talked about counter party risk, transactional risk, and any of the many risks of physically having the item (theft, fire, negligence, cats, children, etc.)

A friend of a friend of a friend had his entire collection destroyed buy a pack of wild feral cats. Till this day, just seeing a photo of a cat causes a nervous breakdown. 

[KCOComics]

9 hours ago, Keys_Collector said:

Trying to lure me into this slap fest? Are you now the stirrer of back and forth on these boards?

You can check my sales posts on Instagram and i've only had 1 here so far.  Never do I say "guaranteed to go up" as I only state the facts about the book regarding what it is and its condition.

Obviously comics will fluctuate and there will be a down turn for many especially modern spec books which I don't collect or hype up.  In case you are doing what others have done, I am not Nick from key collector comics.

Wait wait wait.... that Blue Bolt 112 you sold me isn't guaranteed to go up in value???? Can I get a refund? 

In all seriousness, my personal philosophy is to buy comics because you love them. They aren't an investment to me.  Of course I'm happy to see books I bought years ago go up in value,  but I never bought a comic book with the attitude of "someday this will be worth a fortune." 

In fact I've been working on finishing some Atlas runs that are relatively cheap books and likely will never appreciate all that much. But I love the covers and awesome stories. 

Invest in the market to grow wealth (401k, index funds,  mutual funds and 529s). Buy comics to have fun. 

[spreads]

10 hours ago, Myowncollector said:

A friend of a friend of a friend had his entire collection destroyed buy a pack of wild feral cats. Till this day, just seeing a photo of a cat causes a nervous breakdown. 

 

[crandmck]

On 6/1/2020 at 12:22 AM, littledoom said:

I've been doing this way too long to not take comics out the polybag and look at the front and back.. I do that for comics I'm paying a dollar for or hundreds of dollars for.. I don't take anything home that's not sexy

Yes, I always take a book out of the bag to inspect it front/back, carefully flip through a few pages, etc.  I did so with the Conan, and it looked like at least a VF to me (as I mentioned, I'm not such a great grader). Since the dealer had graded it higher, I thought that was reasonable.  Now I know better.  I did notice some of the small defects mentioned in the grader's notes, but not the staining & tanning, which others have pointed to as the "grade killer".

The other book I bought online, so I had to go by the scan, which in this case was a good high-res scan.  I've definitely passed on books that had poor/low-res pics online (or asked for better scan).  Again, I *thought* the book looked nice enough for a VF, and was graded higher... and again I was wrong.  

While it's possible that both of these dealers were intentionally grading too high and being deceptive, I think it's more likely an honest mistake.  Overall, it is of course my fault, and from now on I'm going to be much more careful.  As I said before, I probably won't be buying many more raw books for more than a few bucks. 

[oldrover]

On 6/1/2020 at 2:04 PM, spreads said:

I bet the guys with name 'Keys Collector' definitely wants to hear that comics may (gasp) lose value!   Do every one of your sales end with the tagline, 'guaranteed to go up!'.  LOL

 

[Artboy99]

to the OP, 

looking at the pictures you posted of the Conan 1 it is rather obvious the book isnt a VF to NM. Wear on the corners brings it down and as mentioned the stain is a "silent killer".

I recommend spending a lot of time learning grading for yourself so you are always in the best possible position to make comic purchases.

If you prefer to not spend years learning grading then as previously mention stick to already graded CGC books.

Once you have a decent number of already cgc books you can learn from them as to what a VF to NM book should look like.

Wish you the best.