So disappointing... 0

[crandmck]

Just got some books back from CGC.  For the most part, the grades were about what I expected, except for two of them that I purchased from (what I thought were) reputable dealers.  They both came back at 7.0, but one (Conan #1) was graded by the dealer as VF/NM and the other (Iron Man & Subby #1) was graded by the dealer as VF/NM to NM-.  Not only am I disappointed, but I feel ripped off, because I paid a couple hundred bucks too much for these books, apparently!  I bought one book online and one at a show.  I could understand if the grade were off by 1.0, but 2 whole points!  Jeez!  

Honestly, the Conan is very sharp. I know I'm not a very good grader, but when I compare it to the DD#5 (in the same batch and also 7.0) it looks WAY nicer, no comparison.  It seems like at least a VF, but... *sigh*

Here are the grader's notes:

Conan the Barbarian 1 10/70 Marvel Comics

light bends to cover
light cover tanning
light spine stress lines to cover
light staining to cover

Iron Man and Sub-Mariner 1 4/68 Marvel Comics

light creasing to cover
light finger bends on cover
light spine stress lines to cover
moderate cover tanning

Should I have had either of these pressed?  Water under the bridge, now, but for future reference...?

This will be the last time I "believe" the grade from any dealer--until I get better at grading, at least.  And apparently buying a raw book online is just a big gamble... even from a well-known dealer.

Is it common to have the CGC grade be so far off from the dealer grade?

[Myowncollector]

Would have to see the books in person to know for sure. Pics would help but before slabbed would be better. No biggie cause I don't like looking at pics of a book unless I am buying it. Won't see me too often in spare a grade thread. 

Based on graders notes I would of pressed and don't forget cleaned both. "Light" is a graders note I like. "Bends" is even better. Majority of comic buyers can't grade. Look at how many please grade my there are. How many wrong answers. Seen one that cgc gave a 9.6 and people told the guy it was a 8.0 8.5 7.5 Dealers are in this group as well. A lot more can grade but not all. More importantly they know people cant grade so they will grade high. I will guess you bought your books from a mega dealer out of NY. 2nd guess would be Colorado. If not dealer might have graded right. He assumed you would be part if the 96% of people that press their books before having them graded.

[comicquant]

Definitely depends on the dealer.  There's a dealer I don't even bother asking to see scans because I know the grade is going to be spot on (or even better).  There is a dealer who I have to not only see the scans but check the book upon arrival to see if they missed something not visible in the scan.  Many times they've "missed" something that causes the actual grade to be dramatically off of their estimate.  I typically check books prior to submitting anyway but many times I've had to return a book to this dealer.  However, there are times when I've stumbled upon great deals so the risk is worth it.  It boils down to learning how to grade books.  With enough practice you can catch potential mis-grades prior to submitting to CGC.  There's a post out there somewhere which graphs dealers raw grades vs the CGC grade.  

[oldrover]

8 hours ago, crandmck said:

Should I have had either of these pressed? 

I have learned that pressing all books you'll be slabbing is a very good investment. As long as you get a good presser, who's reasonably priced.

[spreads]

18 minutes ago, oldrover said:

I have learned that pressing all books you'll be slabbing is a very good investment. As long as you get a good presser, who's reasonably priced.

Comics shouldn't be looked at as investments, there's no guarantee the market and individual books can't crumble in value (and has happened hundreds of times in this industry).  If you really want to buy a comic long-term to hold and preserve, nothing beats high quality Mylar and backing boards.  

[spreads]

3 hours ago, oldrover said:

I have learned that pressing all books you'll be slabbing is a very good investment. As long as you get a good presser, who's reasonably priced.

There's also a ton of books that never should have been slabbed in the first case - negative EV value over selling raw.  So pressing those books would only add to more losses...

Edited May 29, 2020 by spreads

[crandmck]

9 hours ago, Myowncollector said:

I will guess you bought your books from a mega dealer out of NY. 2nd guess would be Colorado. If not dealer might have graded right. He assumed you would be part if the 96% of people that press their books before having them graded.

...

Would have to see the books in person to know for sure. Pics would help but before slabbed would be better.

Nope, the book I bought online was from a dealer in Texas.  The one I bought at a show was from a dealer in No. California...

Re, pressing--I had no idea it was so prevalent.  I'm just getting back into the hobby after a 20 yr hiatus, so pressing is new to me (never done it).  Now I'm going to look into it some more!

Also, I know this isn't a PGM thread, but since you asked...

The pic of the IM&SM is still available online.  My intent is not to "shame" the dealer, because I don't suspect any ill-intent; so I hope posting that link is not inappropriate.  I'm just trying to understand where I went wrong. :-(

Here are some pics of the Conan:

Edited May 29, 2020 by crandmck

[Lazyboy]

10 hours ago, crandmck said:

Honestly, the Conan is very sharp. I know I'm not a very good grader, but when I compare it to the DD#5 (in the same batch and also 7.0) it looks WAY nicer, no comparison.  It seems like at least a VF, but... *sigh*

Here are the grader's notes:

Conan the Barbarian 1 10/70 Marvel Comics

light bends to cover
light cover tanning
light spine stress lines to cover
light staining to cover

Found the (grade) killer!

[spreads]

2 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Found the (grade) killer!

Yes, water stains can be missed at times. 

To the OP

This was an error on the dealer's part (MCS???), although it can be easy to miss.  I wouldn't completely abandon raw books and grades, when I was selling books at shows I never put a grade on it.  If someone was interested I would assign a grade then and there along with my rationale, the buyer could agree or disagree but we would have a discussion on it.  If you're looking online, I would suggest you try this approach.  Don't be afraid of asking questions and for more pics/scans.....

[oldrover]

3 hours ago, spreads said:

Comics shouldn't be looked at as investments

Shouldn't?

 

Okay, Karen.

[thehumantorch]

crandmck  buying raw books is dangerous especially if you're not a good grader or getting  back into the hobby.  There's a lot of over-graded and restored books out there.   I'd suggest you only buy graded books if you're spending more than some arbitrary dollar amount like $100.  

[oldrover]

30 minutes ago, TimeToShine said:

he's right.

He may be right, for some. In my case, he was dead wrong.

That said, timing is everything. You HAVE to buy right. And hold.

[oldrover]

3 minutes ago, TimeToShine said:

So you invested in Restored books on purpose?

Actually, yes. I thought they were undervalued. And when I sold them, I did the best from them. A couple I even got unrestored. Those were REALLY good.

Edit: I also bought unrestored. They did well too. Just not AS well. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by oldrover

[Myowncollector]

Pressing is a waste of $ if the book doesn't need it. I press my own books so cost me nothing and I don't press everything. I don't press more books than I do press. Pressing is nothing new. I was pressing in the 80s and someone older than me told me about. Pressing ads were in the overstreet guides. Ok you didn't know about it. Probably wouldn't helped much. On your books the $ difference from a 7.0 to 7.5 8.0 isnt anything to lose sleep on. 

Grading is easy to learn. Any overstreet guide will teach you. Or just look at a bunch of cgc books. I know a lot of people who never learned and are just find. Either they just buy slabs or they find a few honest dealers and stick to them. Will even message them with their wish lists. Just don't go out buying 4 figure books until you can grade or find some trusted sellers. 

[Chaos_in_Canada]

12 minutes ago, Myowncollector said:

Pressing is a waste of $ if the book doesn't need it. I press my own books so cost me nothing and I don't press everything. I don't press more books than I do press. Pressing is nothing new. I was pressing in the 80s and someone older than me told me about. Pressing ads were in the overstreet guides. Ok you didn't know about it. Probably wouldn't helped much. On your books the $ difference from a 7.0 to 7.5 8.0 isnt anything to lose sleep on. 

Grading is easy to learn. Any overstreet guide will teach you. Or just look at a bunch of cgc books. I know a lot of people who never learned and are just find. Either they just buy slabs or they find a few honest dealers and stick to them. Will even message them with their wish lists. Just don't go out buying 4 figure books until you can grade or find some trusted sellers. 

Are your pressings any good?

Like this?

 

[Myowncollector]

3 minutes ago, TimeToShine said:

Overstreet considered pressing as restoration until around 2006 when CGC "convinced" them to change the definition of Restoration to exclude pressing. Back in the day pressing wasn't really done separately like now, it was part of "clean + press".

I sold a lot of restored books then prior to 2006 haha. Clean + press was still a thing I thought?

[KCOComics]

Buying raw can be tough. And when you get to that NM range it's nearly impossible to distinguish between a 9.4 and a 9.6 (at least for me)

My advice is,  spend some time learning to grade. Watch YouTube videos,  study graders notes, ask questions in the spare a grade area.... Your wallet will thank you. 

As an aside, I'm not a good grader.  I can usually get within a range,  but I'm wrong more than right.  With raw books,  my buying philosophy is based on worse case scenarios and downside risk.  I don't steer clear of raw,  but outside of a few dealers,  I don't trust anyone's assigned grade and try to only pay for what I think the lowest possible outcome would be. 

I have worked hard to identify restoration through pictures.

Other than that,  if you want a sure thing, buy them slabbed.  You pay more to avoid the risk. 

[The Lions Den]

18 hours ago, crandmck said:

Is it common to have the CGC grade be so far off from the dealer grade?

There are certain dealers that typically grade books higher than CGC, but in my experience, very few dealers actually grade lower than CGC does. Take from that what you will...

In general, a 7.0 is going to be a book that presents like a Very Fine, but has either a bit more wear than a typical VF or a more significant flaw which knocks it out of the VF range. I always look at a 7.0 as a book that has attributes of both a Fine and a Very Fine. For example, the book could look like a VF on the front cover but a FN on the back. To be honest, there are many folks out there that have a tough time with this particular grade. 

I hope you have better luck in the future...

 

 

[spreads]

8 hours ago, oldrover said:

Shouldn't?

 

Okay, Karen.

You're a person_having_a_hard_time_understanding_my_point if you think otherwise.  Boomer.

[spreads]

7 hours ago, oldrover said:

He may be right, for some. In my case, he was dead wrong.

That said, timing is everything. You HAVE to buy right. And hold.

Great advice, thanks.  Were do we sign up for your paid newsletter?