Inaccuracies of GPA 2 2

[bounty_coder]

15 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Link doesn't have to report. What their books sell for is online and public. It's a matter of public record. Just like ebay sales. 

I've always wondered about this.  Is it actually Public record?  Most historic sales on ComicLink can only be seen if a User of the System is Logged in.  Right?

With the site's User Agreement; is there verbiage there that would prohibit the sharing of data that only logged in users can see? 

I don't have the mental capacity to dig into that at the moment; but that could be a real thing....

[James J Johnson]

6 minutes ago, bounty_coder said:

I've always wondered about this.  Is it actually Public record?  Most historic sales on ComicLink can only be seen if a User of the System is Logged in.  Right?

With the site's User Agreement; is there verbiage there that would prohibit the sharing of data that only logged in users can see? 

I don't have the mental capacity to dig into that at the moment; but that could be a real thing....

You can follow the auction right down to 0:00. The bids, the result, it's all there without having to log into anything. That is not copyright protected. 

[Math Teacher]

44 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Link doesn't have to report. What their books sell for is online and public. It's a matter of public record. Just like ebay sales. 

I'm attaching a picture of a completed sale on ComicLink. Please point out to me where you can see the date this book sold. At least on Ebay, you can see the date the book was sold.

 

Also, look at this link: https://www.comiclink.com/search.asp?where=sell&title=x-men+16&GO2=GO&ItemType=CB

It shows the recent sales of X-Men #16. For example, it shows an X-Men #16 CGC 8.5 sold for $332; however, we have no idea when this was sold. The most recent sale (03/28/020) on Ebay for the same issue and grade was $439.99. Which sale price do you think reflects the FMV of X-Men #16 CGC 8.5, $332 or $439.99? I know which one I would choose (Ebay).

 

[Math Teacher]

36 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

You can follow the auction right down to 0:00. The bids, the result, it's all there without having to log into anything. That is not copyright protected. 

Auction results do include the date the book was sold, as you stated. Keep in mind that not all sales on ComicLink are through an auction. ComicLink also sells comics directly.

[miraclemet]

12 minutes ago, Joe Ankenbauer said:

Auction results do include the date the book was sold, as you stated. 

but are those pages there historically? I still have CLINK auction results from 2014 because I bid on the book, but that only shows me the book, the grade, my highest bid, the final bid and when the auction closed. Is there any other way I would know what Spaceman #1 in CGC 9.0 sold for back in 2014 on their website? 

[Phill the Governor]

2 hours ago, greggy said:

FYI, George doesn't really visit the boards that often.

The best way to contact him is through the following email --> support@gpanalysis.com

thank you, kind sir. 

[mycomicshop]

Concerns about the comprehensiveness of GPA remind me of the quote about democracy being the worst form of government except all the other forms that have been tried, or capitalism being the worst economic system except for all the others that have been tried. GPA's the worst resource for valuing comics--except for all the others. Not to say there's anything wrong with wishing GPA could be even more comprehensive--I'm all for that too.

[Callaway29]

I believe gocollect mines clink data manually...

[James J Johnson]

4 hours ago, Joe Ankenbauer said:

I'm attaching a picture of a completed sale on ComicLink. Please point out to me where you can see the date this book sold. At least on Ebay, you can see the date the book was sold.

 

Also, look at this link: https://www.comiclink.com/search.asp?where=sell&title=x-men+16&GO2=GO&ItemType=CB

It shows the recent sales of X-Men #16. For example, it shows an X-Men #16 CGC 8.5 sold for $332; however, we have no idea when this was sold. The most recent sale (03/28/020) on Ebay for the same issue and grade was $439.99. Which sale price do you think reflects the FMV of X-Men #16 CGC 8.5, $332 or $439.99? I know which one I would choose (Ebay).

 

Auctions. Like the 5 day event that just occurred at ComicLink. You don't need to be logged in to see the auctions real time. You can follow the bidding right down to the end, to right before 0:00, then at 0:00, you can't see the result unless logged in. But that last figure you see at just before 0:00 is usually the amount the auction closed at. 

The exchange is different. You can see the amount but not the exact date of sale, and some of those books on the exchange have been "sale pending" (sold) status for more than 10 years, left up as permanent archives like Heritage. 

Edited June 3, 2020 by James J Johnson

[lou_fine]

10 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

ComicLink just had a huge 4 day auction, most of the prices smashing GP charts by as much as triple! These are auctions of books that can't be found on ebay and chances are won't. Link's 4 day auction probably generated more in Silver and Golden age sales in those 4 days than all of ebay does in a year, it had to have been tens of millions of dollars of sales of CGC graded books,

You really can't be serious here as even Heritage is unable to generate tens of millions of dollars of sales during their bif Signature Auctions.  

 

10 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

and yet none of it is reflected on the GP charts. Why is that? Why are the sales of one of the biggest sources of CGC graded books in the world; why aren't these sales showing up on the GP charts, and how valid is the GP data without this info? Aren't the charts horribly skewed by not including these sales? 

I was always under the impression that Josh only wanted select items from his auctions to be added into the GPA stats and he was told it would either be all or nothing at all.  

Actually, if Josh got his way in terms of only selected items being included into the GPA stats, then they would definitely be horribly skewed and totally misleading since we all know which sales Josh would want to include and for all of the others to be left out.  

[James J Johnson]

2 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

You really can't be serious here as even Heritage is unable to generate tens of millions of dollars of sales during their bif Signature Auctions.  

I'll add it up for you this week. Let's see if the total gross sales figure is closer to $0.00 or $10,000,000.  

[lou_fine]

14 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

18 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

You really can't be serious here as even Heritage is unable to generate tens of millions of dollars of sales during their bif Signature Auctions.  

I'll add it up for you this week. Let's see if the total gross sales figure is closer to $0.00 or $10,000,000.  

Ummmmmm.............it would have to be more than $10,000,000 dollars as tens of millions of dollars would mean something like $20,000,000 or $30,000,000, etc.  

As such, I am quite confident that the total gross sales figure for this big CL Auction is much closer to $0.00 than it is to even your suggested minimal $20,000,000 figure which is only the first plural of ten.    

Edited June 3, 2020 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

8 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

The results of their auctions are all publicly displayed. All of them. You can see whatever you want to see as far as sales data/price just by logging in.

I guess the real question is how long are they actually on display for because as far as I can tell, you can only see them while the current auction is going on?  

I believe you can no longer see them anymore pretty muchright  after their auction comes to an end.  Definitely not the case with either Heritage of CC where you have historical archives which you can go back to in order to check for past auction sales results.  

[miraclemet]

6 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I guess the real question is how long are they actually on display for because as far as I can tell, you can only see them while the current auction is going on?  

I believe you can no longer see them anymore pretty muchright  after their auction comes to an end.  Definitely not the case with either Heritage of CC where you have historical archives which you can go back to in order to check for past auction sales results.  

For more recent auctions you can see the data: 

Here's an 8 month old auction when I click on my bid record

but beyond that if I click on a bid record I get this...

 

so the only record I have is the one from my bid. 

which is sufficent for my record keeping, but that requires that I put a bid on it in order for it to be in my historical record. 

If I didnt bid on it, but wanted to find the record at some point later, I dont see a way to discover those old auctions (in any wide or searchable way) on CLINK (unlike say Heritage). 

but that's not the business they're in, so i dont fault them for that, but I do wish they'd let SOMEONE (who is in that business) do it...

[Math Teacher]

15 hours ago, miraclemet said:

but are those pages there historically? I still have CLINK auction results from 2014 because I bid on the book, but that only shows me the book, the grade, my highest bid, the final bid and when the auction closed. Is there any other way I would know what Spaceman #1 in CGC 9.0 sold for back in 2014 on their website? 

I honestly don't know how long results remain on the site, but I'm sure they don't stay there in perpetuity. Heritage Auctions seem to keep results for a long time, but Ebay doesn't seem to keep the results as long as Heritage.

[musicmeta]

For me GPA and GoCollect are just "Guides" to me just like the Overstreet Price "Guide".   I've certainly paid more for a book that I've really wanted then what GPA/GoCollect or some other comic book price gathering site has for their sales data. 
These sites "help" me anyway.   
It's all in what you're willing to pay for a book. 

[herc2000]

That's the problem with GPA, it's good for information, but if someone sells something too cheaply on ebay, then this will affect and bring down GPA's average and this has become a bible for some sellers and buyers.

My friend had a Hulk 181, said his price, the buyer said he was trying to con him, as it was not the current GPA average of $4600, lol.

[miraclemet]

1 hour ago, herc2000 said:

That's the problem with GPA, it's good for information, but if someone sells something too cheaply on ebay, then this will affect and bring down GPA's average and this has become a bible for some sellers and buyers.

My friend had a Hulk 181, said his price, the buyer said he was trying to con him, as it was not the current GPA average of $4600, lol.

devils in the details. Gotta look at the data points. 

if that IH181 had 5 of 6 sales for over $5k, and one cheap BIN of $3800, it's obviously a $5k book to the market (especially if those sales that were over $5k were well listed auctions with multiple bidders. 

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, herc2000 said:

That's the problem with GPA, it's good for information, but if someone sells something too cheaply on ebay, then this will affect and bring down GPA's average and this has become a bible for some sellers and buyers.

So, what happens if some silly bidder pays too much for a book?  Does this mean that GPA should ignore this data since it would bring up the GPA average?  

Or are you suggesting that GPA should stop tracking all sales prices and implement Josh's request that they should only arbitrarily select and record high sales so that it will bring up the GPA average in order to show a continuing upwards price trend for all books. 

If so, then this is what I would definitely call bad and misleading information.  

[miraclemet]

2 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

So, what happens if some silly bidder pays too much for a book?  Does this mean that GPA should ignore this data since it would bring up the GPA average?  

Or are you suggesting that GPA should stop tracking all sales prices and implement Josh's request that they should only arbitrarily select and record high sales so that it will bring up the GPA average in order to show a continuing upwards price trend for all books. 

If so, then this is what I would definitely call bad and misleading information.  

agreed, it's best to have all the data in there so that people can draw their own conclusions. 

 

When I run into someone mis-using (intentionally or stupidly) gpa data I try to "show them the light". Like if someone was letting a dumb buyer who hit an overpriced BIN on a book, when there was plenty of data showing the actual value of the book was differet, I'd try to point that out (nicely). But some buyers and sellers only want to see things from their skew.