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Universal, then not
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20 posts in this topic

I picked up a decent value silver age book. It was restored (C-1 minor, color touch) but I examined it with a 10x loupe and it looked like tempera paint. (Like craft paint, which is water soluble).

I sent it in to CCS and it got rejected for resto removal. They were worried about loosening the top staple. They even didn't crack it open.

I was puzzled by that because the grader's notes already say the top staple is detached, but whatever, perhaps CCS doesn't look at the previous notes and they were erring on the side of caution, which is a good thing.

I get the book back, bust it out of the slab, and everything seems fine. The paint flecks off easily, so I touched it with a slightly moist q-tip and it started to come off. I took my time (I'm a graphic designer by background) and gently removed the paint with a few swabs. Then I examined the cover again with the magnifying loupe, used a black light, and could not find any other restoration.

I send it back.

It got walk-thru graded today and came back UNIVERSAL (Blue) Yay!

Then an hour later it was C-1

Another hour later it was C-2

I'm still waiting on the grade, assuming I'll know tomorrow. Also, hoping they don't mysteriously find more restoration, but I'm really confused by the gradual degrading of this book. And ultimately, finding more restoration than was there originally, especially after I easily removed what was there from the initial grader's notes.

Thoughts? Call/email and ask for more info? Ask them to send it to CCS and see if they can remove whatever else there is? Burn it in a fit of frustration and eat the ashes?

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, MatterEaterLad said:

I picked up a decent value silver age book. It was restored (C-1 minor, color touch) but I examined it with a 10x loupe and it looked like tempera paint. (Like craft paint, which is water soluble).

I sent it in to CCS and it got rejected for resto removal. They were worried about loosening the top staple. They even didn't crack it open.

I was puzzled by that because the grader's notes already say the top staple is detached, but whatever, perhaps CCS doesn't look at the previous notes and they were erring on the side of caution, which is a good thing.

I get the book back, bust it out of the slab, and everything seems fine. The paint flecks off easily, so I touched it with a slightly moist q-tip and it started to come off. I took my time (I'm a graphic designer by background) and gently removed the paint with a few swabs. Then I examined the cover again with the magnifying loupe, used a black light, and could not find any other restoration.

I send it back.

It got walk-thru graded today and came back UNIVERSAL (Blue) Yay!

Then an hour later it was C-1

Another hour later it was C-2

I'm still waiting on the grade, assuming I'll know tomorrow. Also, hoping they don't mysteriously find more restoration, but I'm really confused by the gradual degrading of this book. And ultimately, finding more restoration than was there originally, especially after I easily removed what was there from the initial grader's notes.

Thoughts? Call/email and ask for more info? Ask them to send it to CCS and see if they can remove whatever else there is? Burn it in a fit of frustration and eat the ashes?

 

 

 

 

Happens a lot. Remember it goes through a pre-graded and then a finalized. I had a walk-thru book go from Universal to conserved (took 4 days to grade) because they needed a consensus on the level of conservation.  It was said the book was given a water bath. 

Edited by joeypost
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Additionally, slight color touch is misleading. I had a customer ask me to have restoration removed from a silver age key. Sent it off to Kenny and he said it was hit in over a dozen spots on the book. The book would have been destroyed removing the “slight” color touch to the front cover. 

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1 hour ago, joeypost said:

Happens a lot. Remember it goes through a pre-graded and then a finalized. I had a walk-thru book go from Universal to conserved (took 4 days to grade) because they needed a consensus on the level of conservation.  It was said the book was given a water bath. 

Thanks Joey. I've sent in 800+ books and had never seen that. But that makes sense. I'm still a little puzzled how upon second grading, after resto removal, they're finding more CT. (Going from C1 to C2). So did they miss it the first time? Also baffled because the black light picks up nothing, and I thoroughly looked with the glass and a light table and couldn't find anything. 

Edited by MatterEaterLad
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1 hour ago, MatterEaterLad said:

Thanks Joey. I've sent in 800+ books and had never seen that. But that makes sense. I'm still a little puzzled how upon second grading, after resto removal, they're finding more CT. (Going from C1 to C2). So did they miss it the first time? Also baffled because the black light picks up nothing, and I thoroughly looked with the glass and a light table and couldn't find anything. 

Keep in mind most black inks/paint do not show up well under UV light. You need 100x or greater magnification to pick it up. 

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1 hour ago, joeypost said:

Keep in mind most black inks/paint do not show up well under UV light. You need 100x or greater magnification to pick it up. 

Very true. I've dissected several cheap restored books and usually the light table in a dark room will pop any work done. Curious to get this book back and see what's up.

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Okay, it came back Purple 5.0. Which it was originally, so at least the numerical grade remained the same.

But...now there's restoration that was NOT caught the first time and is not on the old grader's notes. (shrug)

Grader Notes:
Color touch (Non-archival material up to 1"" x 1"") Full Left Front Cover C-2
Color touch (Non-archival material up to 1"" x 1"") Full Top Front Cover C-2
Color touch (Non-archival material up to 1"" x 1"") Right Bottom Front Cover C-2

To miss three C-2 areas the first times seems like a horrible job of checking for restoration. If that were on the grader's notes that I read before buying, I never would have bought this book. :frustrated:

Edited by MatterEaterLad
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I sometimes wonder if CGC pushes through to get caught up TATs that quality is sacrificed.  They process a tremendous number of books.  

I know mistakes are made.  Some of the label faux pas seem to have increased but maybe because I take more notice.  

I do remember the JIM #83 that went back and forth from restored to unrestored a few times.  

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15 hours ago, telerites said:

I sometimes wonder if CGC pushes through to get caught up TATs that quality is sacrificed.  They process a tremendous number of books.  

I know mistakes are made.  Some of the label faux pas seem to have increased but maybe because I take more notice.  

I do remember the JIM #83 that went back and forth from restored to unrestored a few times.  

I remember that JIM 83. I still don't understand that one. 

I know they process a TON of books. Mistakes will be made. I have books with label errors. But grading errors...that's a whole other kind of problem. 

Edited by MatterEaterLad
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On 6/3/2020 at 3:18 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Okay, it came back Purple 5.0. Which it was originally, so at least the numerical grade remained the same.

But...now there's restoration that was NOT caught the first time and is not on the old grader's notes. (shrug)

Grader Notes:
Color touch (Non-archival material up to 1"" x 1"") Full Left Front Cover C-2
Color touch (Non-archival material up to 1"" x 1"") Full Top Front Cover C-2
Color touch (Non-archival material up to 1"" x 1"") Right Bottom Front Cover C-2

To miss three C-2 areas the first times seems like a horrible job of checking for restoration. If that were on the grader's notes that I read before buying, I never would have bought this book. :frustrated:

My sense of it is that since you sent the book in as a Walkthrough, it received a more extensive restoration check. And unfortunately, It sounds like the more they looked, the more they found... 

 

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24 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

My sense of it is that since you sent the book in as a Walkthrough, it received a more extensive restoration check. And unfortunately, It sounds like the more they looked, the more they found... 

 

It had to be a Walkthrough the first time. Its value is higher than the other categories. 

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2 hours ago, MatterEaterLad said:

It had to be a Walkthrough the first time. Its value is higher than the other categories. 

I understand completely, but sometimes books are sent in through a lower tier anyway, either intentionally or by mistake. This happens more often than most people think it does.

Another point to consider is the difference could be with the person (or persons) grading the Walkthrough tier the first time as opposed to this time. It could have been someone completely different this time. Moreover, now that CGC has multiple restoration experts, restored books are likely going to be examined more closely than ever before, especially if they've already been hit with a purple label.

I hope this helps in some small way, and I'm very sorry your book didn't achieve the desired results...   :foryou:

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On 6/3/2020 at 3:18 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Okay, it came back Purple 5.0. Which it was originally, so at least the numerical grade remained the same.

But...now there's restoration that was NOT caught the first time and is not on the old grader's notes. (shrug)

Grader Notes:
Color touch (Non-archival material up to 1"" x 1"") Full Left Front Cover C-2
Color touch (Non-archival material up to 1"" x 1"") Full Top Front Cover C-2
Color touch (Non-archival material up to 1"" x 1"") Right Bottom Front Cover C-2

To miss three C-2 areas the first times seems like a horrible job of checking for restoration. If that were on the grader's notes that I read before buying, I never would have bought this book. :frustrated:

Perhaps Mully can assist you with these grader's notes

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To the OP, do you have any pics of the spots that were missed originally?  I'd love to see the areas in question if you're willing to share.  If not, no worries and I'm sorry to hear the news of the newly detected restoration.

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CGC's labels have the notation "restoration includes...", not "restoration limited to..."  Such verbiage is not accidental, it is an acknowledgment that any restored book might have more work done to it than specified on the label. 

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