Is this for real? DC Cuts Ties with Diamond Comic Distributors 5 5

[Bookery]

Maybe everything will work out okay... who knows?  But dealers aren't just upset because they have to set up another account.  This whole thing has been handled very badly and very suspiciously.

First off we're tired, we're broke, and frankly we're not in a mood to face any more problems right now.  We've only been back up and running for 2 weeks.  A lot of shops around the country aren't even that well off.  The PPP was a disaster... I canceled after 30 days of agony trying to deal with it (another long story there).  We're open less than 2 weeks and suddenly there are protests all around our area.  Though nothing was anywhere near what happened in the big cities, there was still significant vandalism in some of the communities during these.  We find out with little warning that our own little downtown was having one on Thursday.  We spent 2 days just trying to find out what was going on so we could let customers know... were they closing the streets, was there a curfew, what was the nature of the protest, would there be parking, etc., etc.? Little or no information.  The protest come on Thursday.  Nothing violent happens, thankfully... but business is essentially wiped out that day as people either avoid the area, or can't get into the downtown.  Friday comes, and for the first time in a week I'm finally able to sit down and begin processing some backstock.  I'm barely at this 30-minutes when my manager comes in and tells me DC has quit Marvel and we've got the weekend to open a new account and place orders.

Why should we trust DC?  Is it because they moved a couple of months back to open two new distribution channels (fine, that's there business) while telling us if we liked our Diamond account we could keep our Diamond account, only to switch a few weeks later at the last minute and say "oops! never mind!"?

Is it because while Diamond suspended distribution during a nationwide shutdown DC whined about not getting their product out despite the fact that shops that had no way of selling it, through no fault of our own?  Yeah... sounds like DC's on my side.

Maybe I should trust DC because AT&T bought them.  After all, in 36 years of business I have never ever ever had a worse company to deal with (not even Spectrum!)... every month, every year, problem after problem, having to go through foreign countries for even the simplest thing, having them literally try to scam me (through a crooked employee of theirs) out of thousands of dollars and taking months to resolve the issue (not kidding). It got so bad that I vowed never to have anything to do with them again... finally switched carriers (when they finally became available in our area) and never looked back.  So yeah, I was thrilled when they bought out DC and once again I'm saddled with being partnered with them.  But hey... it's just a parent company, right?  What could they possibly due to mess up my comics?

Maybe I should trust DC because they didn't decide to self-distribute, or buy out a distributor, they went to our biggest competitor(s) and will have them handle our accounts.  I give our customers 20% off on all new comics.  I don't do this because of local competitors.  I do this because of DCBS.  Years ago we began losing lots of file customers to them... many said they would stick with us even if we could meet them halfway... but the DCBS discounts were just too great to continue paying full price.  So eventually we complied, but the hit to our profit margins is massive.  DCBS and Midtown's business model is to put us out of business.  Fine.  That's their right.  But now I'm forced to partner with them and am told to shut up and like it.

DC tells me I have 2 choices for an account... DCBS who wants me gone, and Midtown who is set up in the heart of an area completely ravaged by Covid-19 and riots, with an expectation that waves of both could erupt again at any time.  Midtown still isn't allowed to open their retail shop under penalty of law.  Sounds like a good, safe bet for my account.  DCBS at least has national distribution experience.  I know Midtown sells nationwide, but can they possibly adapt to 1000+ new accounts practically overnight?  Maybe they can.  But I don't know.  And I'm not going to know until it's too late because nobody is addressing this.

DC's big push for why this is all worthwhile to dealers is that DC comics will be available on Tuesdays!  Really?  Who cares?  Do you think customers are going to drive to our shop two days in a row for that?  It's so silly that is this sort of infantile marketing approach supposed to instill confidence in me?

DC's suddenness and timing seems designed not only to break from Diamond, but to try and destroy them.  The animosity there seems intense.  If they succeed, do I thank DC for all of the nightmares that could cause, even more for gaming product than for comics?

  

Nah!... everyone's right...

I'm just grumpy because I have to fill out a separate order form.  I'm lazy like that.

 

[jimjum12]

44 minutes ago, Bookery said:

DC's big push for why this is all worthwhile to dealers is that DC comics will be available on Tuesdays!  Really?  Who cares?  Do you think customers are going to drive to our shop two days in a row for that?  It's so silly that is this sort of infantile marketing approach supposed to instill confidence in me?

This will likely have the same lack of success that Marvel had when they attempted the very same thing. Those who don't learn from the past …. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[ttfitz]

14 hours ago, bb8 said:

I may just be old, but, to me, the experience of reading a comic book is intrinsically different than listening to music or watching a movie. I don't care about owning a physical copy of music or a movie such as a record, cd or dvd. But, for whatever reason, I don't like digital comics. At all. Someone gave me a digital copy of something like 100 Marvel and DC comics a while back, but I've read barely any. I don't want to sit at a computer screen or even scroll through a tablet to read them. The 'digital' experience is far inferior to holding the product in 3 dimensions. However, I may just be a hold-out. I don't like digital books either. I'd much rather read a paperback.

I'm not opposed to digital, in fact most of my comic reading these days has been with digital copies, mostly due to the extremely disorganized state of my collection. However...

To me, you can't collect digital comics. If DC were to go to digital only, that would mean the end of purchasing DC comics for me.

And that comes from a guy who owns over 800 of the 1000 or so issues of Action Comics, just to name one title.

[Prince Namor]

The other questions regarding DCBS and Midtown is, how are they going to handle FOC? Back when I owned a store, I used to be able to just sit at my store terminal and do it through the Diamond Software, but those two aren't even set up for that on their website. And at DCBS, as much as I appreciate the discount I now get, if I missed a title after FOC, the odds of getting it after the fact are almost zero. There was no real back stock on floppies.

I'm sure DC will change this for them and make it available, but how? Are they going to warehouse over prints for if people need it? Get it shipped from DC as needed? (DC already did their own warehousing of over print separate from Diamond). How much extra will that cost?

It took Diamond decades to not-quite-ever-perfect the unique trappings on Direct Market distribution - but they have made improvements. For anyone jumping in - it's just not easy. One of the things that sank Heroes World was how badly they bungled that very thing - poor shipping, poor packaging - poor invoicing - poor customer service... DCBS in particular is NOT set up for customer service call ins... ask a Diamond rep, it's BRUTAL.

How are they going to handle that? That's a whole new department for the business....

As a store, you WANT to buy toys outside of Diamond because their price point sucks - you WANT to buy gaming outside of Diamond because their selection is limited and their price point sucks - YES, of course there are things you can get at a better value through direct distribution.

But floppies are a unique weekly never ending conveyor belt of product that have their own specific handling. Most normal distribution set ups are not equipped to handle it. From the ordering on through to customer service. We'll see what happens, but... if it turns out to be anything like the Heroes World debacle, this hobby is in for some rough times.

[Prince Namor]

Something else to consider... maybe DC isn't looking to an IMMEDIATE change over to Digital, but they are certainly looking at a change over to direct online ordering. DCBS is ALL online and Midtown has a large following online.

THIS is a beautiful set up for a publisher... immediate purchase by the customer (though they have to wait to get their product), immediate payment to the middle man and then immediate payment to the publisher. 

It's a horrible set up for the brick and mortar stores. That will lead to many of them (especially the little guys) becoming obsolete even before digital takes over. 

Seriously, if you can buy one of every DC title for 50% off through DCBS as a CUSTOMER (or individually for 40% off - including variants), why would you ever want to settle for 25% off of the same book in a store? (DCBS's packaging is outstanding by the way). 

I guess if, as a customer you get one or two titles a month it wouldn't make much difference, but...

It might end up opening people's eyes to getting ALL of their books through DCBS...

[lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Hieronymus Bosch said:

Seriously, if you can buy one of every DC title for 50% off through DCBS as a CUSTOMER (or individually for 40% off - including variants), why would you ever want to settle for 25% off of the same book in a store? (DCBS's packaging is outstanding by the way). 

I guess if, as a customer you get one or two titles a month it wouldn't make much difference, but...

It might end up opening people's eyes to getting ALL of their books through DCBS...

People grossly overestimate how price sensitive consumers are. My customers are well aware that every single item in my store (other than wall books) can be instantly purchased cheaper online. They aren’t stupid. They know that they can get discounts buying from Amazon or Midtown or any number of other online options. They don’t care.

I charge full price for new comics. I charge full price for trades and hardcovers. I charge full price for statues, figures, Funkos, t-shirts, all of it. We do have a rewards program (and automatic discounts for first responders, educators, and active duty military). But we charge full retail. 

Customers don’t care because we provide great customer service. Employees are well compensated (we start part time employees at $4 over minimum with profit sharing) and are specifically hired for customer service attitude. The store smells good (something mentioned in several reviews). It’s quiet with pleasant music. We shut down spoilers and gatekeeping immediately. 

My customers would rather pay full price and get an outstanding shopping experience than chase discounts. Just like the customers of Nordstrom or REI or Chik-Fil-A or H-E-B or Trader Joe’s (all among the companies we emulate when defining who we are as a comic shop). I’m not in the comic business. I’m in the customer service business, and just happen to sell comics.

[letsgrumble]

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/mile-high-comics-launches-dc-sucks-50-off-sale/

[kimik]

23 minutes ago, letsgrumble said:

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/mile-high-comics-launches-dc-sucks-50-off-sale/

Yeah, it was posted here earlier. Chuck realizes that he is fooked since the new distributors will not likely let him rack up a $1M debt by not paying for his new comics while still selling them and keeping the money.

 

[Mr. Spider-Woman]

I only read about this last night. I don't know what to think. I'm a Marvel collector, not DC, so it doesn't affect me personally at the moment but if DC leaving Diamond impacts the broader comic book industry, who knows!

Best of luck to everyone with a shop trying to navigate this massive change.

[Mercury Man]

2 hours ago, letsgrumble said:

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/mile-high-comics-launches-dc-sucks-50-off-sale/

Well with his 50% off discount, he is now only 30% higher than most shops/outlets for similar condition books. 

[Prince Namor]

3 hours ago, lighthouse said:

People grossly overestimate how price sensitive consumers are. My customers are well aware that every single item in my store (other than wall books) can be instantly purchased cheaper online. They aren’t stupid. They know that they can get discounts buying from Amazon or Midtown or any number of other online options. They don’t care.

I charge full price for new comics. I charge full price for trades and hardcovers. I charge full price for statues, figures, Funkos, t-shirts, all of it. We do have a rewards program (and automatic discounts for first responders, educators, and active duty military). But we charge full retail. 

Customers don’t care because we provide great customer service. Employees are well compensated (we start part time employees at $4 over minimum with profit sharing) and are specifically hired for customer service attitude. The store smells good (something mentioned in several reviews). It’s quiet with pleasant music. We shut down spoilers and gatekeeping immediately. 

My customers would rather pay full price and get an outstanding shopping experience than chase discounts. Just like the customers of Nordstrom or REI or Chik-Fil-A or H-E-B or Trader Joe’s (all among the companies we emulate when defining who we are as a comic shop). I’m not in the comic business. I’m in the customer service business, and just happen to sell comics.

So you believe... that's how the rest of the hobby does it too, so everything will be ok? 

[lighthouse]

26 minutes ago, Hieronymus Bosch said:

So you believe... that's how the rest of the hobby does it too, so everything will be ok? 

I don't believe any such thing. In any industry there are businesses that choose to compete on price rather than on service, selection, or any other factor. And in any industry there are businesses subject to local market factors that would not apply universally (local unemployment higher or lower than average, local market oversaturated or undersaturated in that industry, etc).

But the common misperception overstates the price sensitivity of a typical consumer. We don't all drive the cheapest cars, wear the cheapest clothes, eat the cheapest food, visit the cheapest dentist, use the cheapest cell phone, get the cheapest haircut, drink the cheapest beer, rent the cheapest apartment, sit in the cheapest seats at an event, or hire the cheapest plumber. Consumers happily pay more all the time if their consumption experience brings them happiness.

[Jeffro.]

5 minutes ago, lighthouse said:

But the common misperception overstates the price sensitivity of a typical consumer. We don't all drive the cheapest cars, wear the cheapest clothes, eat the cheapest food, visit the cheapest dentist, use the cheapest cell phone, get the cheapest haircut, drink the cheapest beer, rent the cheapest apartment, sit in the cheapest seats at an event, or hire the cheapest plumber. Consumers happily pay more all the time if their consumption experience brings them happiness.

Some do and some don't. I don't think we can use such generalities and anecdotal information to say definitively one way or the other. Your customers appear to be willing to pay for your level of service so good for you. However, I'd be willing to bet that you have customers that are lured to Amazon or instocktrades or cheapgraphicnovels because they can get a TPB for 25%, or more, off. They may not do it all the time but if you don't think they have never done it, you've being naive

[lighthouse]

31 minutes ago, Jeffro. said:

However, I'd be willing to bet that you have customers that are lured to Amazon or instocktrades or cheapgraphicnovels because they can get a TPB for 25%, or more, off. They may not do it all the time but if you don't think they have never done it, you've being naive

Of course. And we frequently direct regular customers TO Amazon if we are out of stock on something and they need it quickly, just as we direct regular customers to mycomicshop if we don't have a particular back issue they need. We are happy to check the in-stock status elsewhere to find customers what they are looking for. It's been a Miracle On 34th Street approach since day one.

Are there a percentage of customers purely motivated by price? I don't doubt it. But the presence or knowledge of a cheaper option isn't the automatic death knell many folks assume.

[ExNihilo]

2 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

Well with his 50% off discount, he is now only 30% higher than most shops/outlets for similar condition books. 

So true.  I priced out about 30 books i was interested in getting and it was like $90 after the discount.  I then dug around on eBay where I found about 25 of those books for $38 (shipping included).

[EC Star&Bar]

First of all best wishes to all shop owners & employees.  This will be disruptive in several ways.  One of the shops nearest me currently is closed on Mondays AND Tuesdays.  I'm sure they're scratching their heads right now for a new schedule.s

I don't need convincing there are plenty of people who are willing to pay full retail.  Convenience is certainly a factor, and loyalty to friends' shops.  Ten years ago, I was buying my trades locally for just 10% off, with NO loyalty rewards.  Since that shop's owners didn't seem to care about the $$ I was bringing at least twice a week, I began seeking other sources.  Recently I bought a couple of the Epic Collection Star Wars TPBs in perfect condition.  One of them clocked in at 93% OFF the SRP.  93% !!!!  I don't expect mom & pop to compete with that.  But I currently buy on average 100 to 150 trades & HCs per year.  If all they can offer is 10% off, goodbye.

[Prince Namor]

2 hours ago, lighthouse said:

Of course. And we frequently direct regular customers TO Amazon if we are out of stock on something and they need it quickly, just as we direct regular customers to mycomicshop if we don't have a particular back issue they need. We are happy to check the in-stock status elsewhere to find customers what they are looking for. It's been a Miracle On 34th Street approach since day one.

Are there a percentage of customers purely motivated by price? I don't doubt it. But the presence or knowledge of a cheaper option isn't the automatic death knell many folks assume.

It sounds like you have a great relationship with your customers and that is an awesome thing that a lot of business in particular doesn't realize the importance of. 

But in my lifetime I've watched Walmart, based on price - their customer service is terrible - destroy a lot of mom and pop shops and Amazon, based on selection, price, and fast shipping do a LOT of damage to retail.

People very much ARE price conscious. Maybe you're in a well to do area or your service is just the greatest ever, but a large majority of this country is very, very price conscious. Just look at this forum - it's FULL of people who are more interested in flipping their comics than collecting them - they're ALWAYS trying to get a cheaper price.

I could be wrong. Maybe this'll have very little effect on comic shops in general. Maybe Image and Boom and Manga and Young Reader Comics will continue to gain a larger portion of the market. Maybe readers will one day dominate the hobby. We can always hope.  

[fastballspecial]

On 6/6/2020 at 9:02 AM, mysterymachine said:

This may be a dumb question but why won't the comic shops hold the DC Books for 24 hours and continue to put them out on Wednesdays? Do Buyers absolutely need to get them on Tuesdays? I think all stores should agree to adopt this rule. It will simplify things for the buyers as well. 

Not that this will solve the biggest issue however which will be how Diamond will survive with less money coming in.

Seems like it will create issues either way.

 

[fastballspecial]

4 hours ago, Hieronymus Bosch said:

8 hours ago, lighthouse said:

People grossly overestimate how price sensitive consumers are. My customers are well aware that every single item in my store (other than wall books) can be instantly purchased cheaper online. They aren’t stupid. They know that they can get discounts buying from Amazon or Midtown or any number of other online options. They don’t care.

I charge full price for new comics. I charge full price for trades and hardcovers. I charge full price for statues, figures, Funkos, t-shirts, all of it. We do have a rewards program (and automatic discounts for first responders, educators, and active duty military). But we charge full retail. 

Customers don’t care because we provide great customer service. Employees are well compensated (we start part time employees at $4 over minimum with profit sharing) and are specifically hired for customer service attitude. The store smells good (something mentioned in several reviews). It’s quiet with pleasant music. We shut down spoilers and gatekeeping immediately. 

My customers would rather pay full price and get an outstanding shopping experience than chase discounts. Just like the customers of Nordstrom or REI or Chik-Fil-A or H-E-B or Trader Joe’s (all among the companies we emulate when defining who we are as a comic shop). I’m not in the comic business. I’m in the customer service business, and just happen to sell comics.

So you believe... that's how the rest of the hobby does it too, so everything will be ok? 

There is alot to be said for the above. One of my locals shops survived for 15 years without carrying new issues. He felt there was no profit in them
and I tend to agree. He carried some stuff from Diamond, but not new issues. He survived on $1 back stock and back issues sales. When you can pay
less $.10 a book and sell it for $1. its a pretty good profit margin over time.

 

[Prince Namor]

22 minutes ago, fastballspecial said:

There is alot to be said for the above. One of my locals shops survived for 15 years without carrying new issues. He felt there was no profit in them
and I tend to agree. He carried some stuff from Diamond, but not new issues. He survived on $1 back stock and back issues sales. When you can pay
less $.10 a book and sell it for $1. its a pretty good profit margin over time.

 

You can make money off of new books. There's just certain factors that have to be in place, and you have to really do your due diligence in ordering with a heavy lean toward regular subscription customers.