Where do you see the hobby in 25 years 4 4

[Bookery]

29 minutes ago, Ouchie said:

Charlie Haviza?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/prices-for-golf-themed-comic-covers-by-no-means-mickey-mouse-1.934430%3fmode=amp

Neat article... but I don't know this fellow (by name anyway) even though he's only one state over from me.  Sports cover collecting has always been a niche market... even with pulps and books.  Golf seems to be the most popular, however.  I suspect baseball (or maybe boxing) might be second.  Part of it might be the sheer number of them that makes the hunt interesting (not so many discoveries to be found for croquet, by comparison).  For years I've mulled over the idea of putting together a checklist to cover themes... but it would be an enormous task.  When I was younger I spent a lot of time bird-watching (birding as is the preferred term), and for awhile I considered collecting comics with birds on them... but only realistic portrayals of actually identifiable species (Tweety and Donald don't count).

[telerites]

1 hour ago, Bookery said:

Believe it or not... yes, this is correct.  I have a collector who also has several friends who all collect golf covers.  He has nearly all of them... but because of the cost, this is the one that eludes him (them).  I once had someone who collected birdcage covers.  But... okay... I'll admit it... parrot covers not so much.  

 

42 minutes ago, Ouchie said:

Charlie Haviza?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/prices-for-golf-themed-comic-covers-by-no-means-mickey-mouse-1.934430%3fmode=amp

I am assuming Charlie Haviza is this board member although he hasn't visited since 2017.

 

[rjpb]

On 6/12/2020 at 8:41 AM, Bookery said:

As fascinating as these discussions are... they aren't new.  We see the same arguments over and over.  I was going back through CGC's archives, and found this discussion in the early days of the boards (this one's from 1932).  I'm lousy with the "quote function" so have re-typed the discussion here.  The participants were:

Foxtrot My Amadeus (FMA)

Thimble Theater Fan  (TTF)

Katzenjammer Kult (KK)

 

(KK):  So guys, I was just thinking... where do see you the comic market in say, the next 80-90 years?

(FMA):  The "keys" will always be hot... Peter Rabbit, The Gumps... these aren't going anywhere but up.

(TTF):  No doubt.  But everything's heating up across the board.  Investors would be wise to stock up now while they can.

(KK):  What about these rumors of new smaller paper-bound books coming out?

(FMA): No way these become popular.  A "comic book" must and will remain hardbound.  You can toss anything that comes out in a paper stapled format right in the trash.

(TTF):  I buy mostly to flip comics to kids down by the stockyards... what do you recommend I concentrate on?

(KK):  Buster Brown, of course, is the safe bet.  It will still be the most in-demand character a hundred years from now.  And there are rumors that Cecil B. DeMille may be producing a Foxy Grandpa movie... if so, look out!  Your Local Dry Goods shop won't be able to keep them stocked!

(FMA):  I never buy anything from an LDG.  Never any deals.  I trade for mine behind Old Man McElroy's barn.

(KK):  Peck's Bad Boy is solid.  Of course these are the keys everybody wants.  And the Flapper Girl Art collectors are driving up prices on Tillie the Toiler.  Still-- with all of the popularity of these new sound movies, do you think comics will fall by the wayside?

(TTF):  Not if they stick with good solid story-telling... nobody wants characters to get weird or surreal... Popeye is pushing the envelope, but people with silly abilities are never going to catch on beyond a niche market.  Humor is where it's at and always will be.  Mutt and Jeff rules! 

(FMA):  And good art.  I don't see how that Harold Gray keeps getting work!  He can't even draw eyes on Little Orphan Annie.  He knows nothing about anatomy!

(TTF):  The reality is these comics will keep growing in popularity and value.  I can predict that in 100 years we will see some comics fetching over $20 at auction!

(KK):  I don't know about that... but new generations will keep falling in love with this hobby (unless the staple-pushers ruin it)... This new Skippy character should be a hit... will run at least 100 issues.  Tarzan was fine in book-form, and Elmo Lincoln will always be the definitive movie Tarzan... but I don't see him transitioning well to comics beyond that Hardback from 3 years ago.

(TTF):  No... he's like Popeye... too much muscle... no comic collector wants to read about a character whose abilities are so far beyond the average person's.

(KK):  I agree with everything that's been said here... However, as much as I love my comics, I'm wondering that from a purely investor position if I shouldn't sell them all off and put my money into piano rolls?

(FMA):  Their steady rise in value over the years is tempting, sure... but you can't read a piano roll.  No art, no thanks. 

(KK):  Love the discussion guys... but I gotta go.  Harold Teen is on the radio, and I don't want to miss it.  Golly gee!  I wish someone would invent a way to record these programs so we could play them back later.  Anyway... good chat!

 

Apparently, even as Dime Novels had been supplanted by pulps and later paperbacks, they were collectible enough in the 1940s for dealers to have price lists, and facsimile editions to be printed. Granted, due to age, historical significance, and colorful covers they still have some collector interest today, but I'm guessing money spent 75 years ago completing a run of Buffalo Bill Stories or Work and Win, might not have been the best investment in paper ephemera. 

On one hand, Dime Novels were still collectible three decades after they had largely been supplanted by pulps, indicating that the demise of the stapled comic book, should it come fairly soon, wouldn't instantly kill the collector's market, and we see today a resurgent interest in pulps, with rising values, even though the format hasn't been around for nearly 70 years, and the featured characters having limited current pop culture currency, though that interest is largely due to the lurid covers. 

However, I could see comic values declining against inflation, as they did for Dime Novels, or at least stagnating for decades as they had for pulps, and most of the material printed in the last fifty years has an added disadvantage long term, as too much of it has been saved to make all but a small percentage of comics published since the 1960s even remotely scarce (which no doubt has fueled the high grade emphasis when it comes to collecting comics from the last half century, as those can be a bit harder to acquire). While residual collector interest may continue to sustain values for keys and favorites, I can see an increasing, not shrinking, number of books becoming dollar box fodder in the future.   

 

[Ken Aldred]

6 hours ago, FoggyNelson said:

Strange Adventures has a cool parrot cover 😷‼️

Just the one I was thinking about!  I had this as a kid in the 70s, and it's the last issue of the series ...

Edited June 16, 2020 by Ken Aldred

[Hollywood1892]

17 hours ago, Myowncollector said:

Willing to hear a 3rd option or this topic old news? I am always late to the party.

Sell most of my collection....but I don't really have a third option

[Hollywood1892]

Just now, Ouchie said:

I don't understand why on the 2nd issue they still feel the need to remind people that "he is in his own magazine" sounds like Parrotting to me

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

Just now, Hollywood1892 said:

I don't understand why on the 2nd issue they still feel the need to remind people that "he is in his own magazine" sounds like Parrotting to me

They were hawking for sales.

[Bookery]

29 minutes ago, rjpb said:

Apparently, even as Dime Novels had been supplanted by pulps and later paperbacks, they were collectible enough in the 1940s for dealers to have price lists, and facsimile editions to be printed. Granted, due to age, historical significance, and colorful covers they still have some collector interest today, but I'm guessing money spent 75 years ago completing a run of Buffalo Bill Stories or Work and Win, might not have been the best investment in paper ephemera. 

On one hand, Dime Novels were still collectible three decades after they had largely been supplanted by pulps, indicating that the demise of the stapled comic book, should it come fairly soon, wouldn't instantly kill the collector's market, and we see today a resurgent interest in pulps, with rising values, even though the format hasn't been around for nearly 70 years, and the featured characters having limited current pop culture currency, though that interest is largely due to the lurid covers. 

However, I could see comic values declining against inflation, as they did for Dime Novels, or at least stagnating for decades as they had for pulps, and most of the material printed in the last fifty years has an added disadvantage long term, as too much of it has been saved to make all but a small percentage of comics published since the 1960s even remotely scarce (which no doubt has fueled the high grade emphasis when it comes to collecting comics from the last half century, as those can be a bit harder to acquire). While residual collector interest may continue to sustain values for keys and favorites, I can see an increasing, not shrinking, number of books becoming dollar box fodder in the future.   

 

One of the things that has hurt dime novels (most can be had for $5 or less) is the art... it's all quite similar and considered "old-fashioned" in style... and there's certainly nothing lurid about them.  Pulps are seeing a resurgence almost entirely because of the art, for as you say, the characters have little contemporary relevance.  Comics are dropping in interest unless they are (a) keys, or (b) have "cool art".  And I always hear that it's the art the will keep comics in demand over the generations.  But I wonder...  Just like the once-popular style of dime novel art has fallen out of favor, so too might line-drawn comic art?  Some of the high-priced pre-code horror covers aren't even drawn that well... they're just  gory, but are "hot" anyway.  But today's generations are growing up on computer-generated art.... some of it almost photo-realistic.  Will our favorites of the past... even the giants of the medium... come off as so much "cartoony stuff" compared to high-tech depictions and coloring techniques?  Remember-- those old dime novel covers were good enough in their day to entice an entire generation or two into buying millions of copies.  But even by the 1930s, that style wouldn't sell comics.  

"Pop culture" is exactly that... it's stuff that has a defined heyday, than a nostalgic resurgence, and then begins to fade, especially if it's not rare.  Tastes change.  Cultural references change.  Historians will always have interest in it... but the general masses move on.

[Myowncollector]

1 hour ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Sell most of my collection....but I don't really have a third option

Oh no. As a collector I don't sell to fund new additions. Only time I sell is if it isn't anything I want to keep or its peaked in value and I will pick it up again when I find it for a discount or if it's a one and done character after the movie. 

[Hollywood1892]

3 hours ago, Myowncollector said:

Oh no. As a collector I don't sell to fund new additions. Only time I sell is if it isn't anything I want to keep or its peaked in value and I will pick it up again when I find it for a discount or if it's a one and done character after the movie. 

It wasn't really an option 

I'm just gonna save for 3 yrs

[Myowncollector]

14 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

It wasn't really an option 

I'm just gonna save for 3 yrs

Personally I would finance it and get it now. I do this all the time. 0% interest credit cards or paypal credit. Gives me a year to move $ around or sell off assets to pay for book. Something will happen with some of my stocks that will make me want to cash out. Huge books will use credit union. Not a popular strategy for most people yet they will finance boats cars bikes that are guaranteed to lose $. Buy a car for 40 grand and in 5 years its 10 if you are lucky. I don't think af is a good investment but you do so the gains will destroy any interest rate on your loan so it's a no brainer right. 

[WolverineX]

I'll be glad if we survive 2020.

[Hollywood1892]

7 hours ago, Myowncollector said:

Personally I would finance it and get it now. I do this all the time. 0% interest credit cards or paypal credit. Gives me a year to move $ around or sell off assets to pay for book. Something will happen with some of my stocks that will make me want to cash out. Huge books will use credit union. Not a popular strategy for most people yet they will finance boats cars bikes that are guaranteed to lose $. Buy a car for 40 grand and in 5 years its 10 if you are lucky. I don't think af is a good investment but you do so the gains will destroy any interest rate on your loan so it's a no brainer right. 

Why don't you think AF 15 is a good investment?

[piper]

2 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Why don't you think AF 15 is a good investment?

Buy the blue chip books; don’t chase the hot book of the month.

If you intend to keep the AF15, you will be fine long term. The book was on an exponential like increase for years and has essentially plateaued for sometime now (perhaps decreased slightly?).

[Myowncollector]

2 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Why don't you think AF 15 is a good investment?

Think stocks will outperform it. Can buy other books that if they show up in mcu will double triple or who knows how many multiples and af isn't going to do that. Miles is tearing it up now. I never want any part of anything that the masses are after. I love the book, just not for investment. Think I can beat its returns. 

[Hollywood1892]

2 hours ago, piper said:

Buy the blue chip books; don’t chase the hot book of the month.

If you intend to keep the AF15, you will be fine long term. The book was on an exponential like increase for years and has essentially plateaued for sometime now (perhaps decreased slightly?).

 

2 hours ago, Myowncollector said:

Think stocks will outperform it. Can buy other books that if they show up in mcu will double triple or who knows how many multiples and af isn't going to do that. Miles is tearing it up now. I never want any part of anything that the masses are after. I love the book, just not for investment. Think I can beat its returns. 

Thanks for the advice guys

My plan isn't to sell books right away

My plan is to collect until I am 65 and then sell of my collection. I'm 41 right now. (As you can see by the title of the thread)

So I wouldnt sell AF 15 for 25 years, and I would hope its prices would relax for the next 3 yrs

[Bookery]

15 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

 

Thanks for the advice guys

My plan isn't to sell books right away

My plan is to collect until I am 65 and then sell of my collection. I'm 41 right now. (As you can see by the title of the thread)

So I wouldnt sell AF 15 for 25 years, and I would hope its prices would relax for the next 3 yrs

Sounds good.  Give my shop a call when you're ready to sell.  But... keep in mind I'll be 86 by then... so when you call you'll have to speak up.

[lou_fine]

4 hours ago, Myowncollector said:

Think stocks will outperform it. Can buy other books that if they show up in mcu will double triple or who knows how many multiples and af isn't going to do that. Miles is tearing it up now. I never want any part of anything that the masses are after. I love the book, just not for investment. Think I can beat its returns. 

That's because stocks are meant and designed solely to be pure equity investments in the hopes of making money for the purchasers, even tough there are a lot of Enron's and Nortel's around.  Not sure how much fun and enjoyment you get from collecting stocks like these.  

Comic books in general, on the other hand, were never ever meant to be published purely for investment purposes.  Of course, with the comic book marketplace performing the way it has, there have been exceptions to this in the form of "manufactued collectible comic books" such as special cover, variants, etc. and we all know how well they do in the long run in terms of ensuring you never ever get your money back.  

Comic books, first and foremost after all, is really a hobby for collectors to enjoy and derive fun from the actual books themselves, as opposed to never ever opening one since it's really nothing more than a vehicle to make money from.  My thinking is that if you collect and enjoy the comic books as a hobby, and if they also happen to go up in value over time while you are deriving fun and enjoyment from them, then that's nothing more than an extra bonus as you've won on both ends of the transaction.  

[Myowncollector]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

Not sure how much fun and enjoyment you get from collecting stocks like these

I enjoy making money, even more than that I enjoy the game. If comic speculation didn't hit a decade ago then my books would just be sitting in boxes, wouldn't be buying as much. Rejuvenated the hobby for me.

[Hollywood1892]

What type of person will be able to buy AF 15 in 25 years, and out of every 1000 collectors how many will be able to afford it?

Better yet, will there be a market for AF 15?