Disgusted with CGC at the moment... 4 4

[Lightning55]

1 hour ago, James J Johnson said:

A return can be made for any reason, in general. Could be for a missing page, could be for one spine stress too many which leads to a differing of opinion between your perception of grade and the seller's description. "Item not as described" covers a plethora of reasons for dissatisfaction and a wish to return for refund, which a buyer can file and ebay will remedy if necessary in the event that the seller stonewalls the return request. . 

And this is what drives sellers away from eBay.  All kinds of substitutions could be pulled off.  It should be: if you crack it open, you own it.  As the OP is already figuring.  He has integrity.

There's a thread here or over at Voldy's where a buyer bought raw comics graded by the seller at 9.0.  They submit them for pressing and grading and they come back 7.5 4-5 months later because of a stain that was camouflaged by the art, or other hard-to-detect flaw.  Now they want the seller to cover the difference in graded value between what was advertised and what was attained, plus the grading and pressing fees.  That's just ridiculous and should never be allowed.  EBay sided with the seller, but the buyer got it reversed through the credit card company.  This is not tolerable.

[wombat]

5 minutes ago, Lightning55 said:

And this is what drives sellers away from eBay.  All kinds of substitutions could be pulled off.  It should be: if you crack it open, you own it.  As the OP is already figuring.  He has integrity.

There's a thread here or over at Voldy's where a buyer bought raw comics graded by the seller at 9.0.  They submit them for pressing and grading and they come back 7.5 4-5 months later because of a stain that was camouflaged by the art, or other hard-to-detect flaw.  Now they want the seller to cover the difference in graded value between what was advertised and what was attained, plus the grading and pressing fees.  That's just ridiculous and should never be allowed.  EBay sided with the seller, but the buyer got it reversed through the credit card company.  This is not tolerable.

He was certainly never going to get his fees reimbursed. Even the best protections aren't going to give you more than you paid for the item. Did the credit card make him send the item back to the seller?

[James J Johnson]

5 minutes ago, Lightning55 said:

And this is what drives sellers away from eBay.  

And why if I have a book that it's time to sell, ebay is the last place I would turn to do so. When is a sale a sale? Selling on ebay, the chickens can come home to roost for up to 180 days after the actual date of payment. That's no way realistically sell items, whether part-time or professional. 

[Lightning55]

1 hour ago, wombat said:

He was certainly never going to get his fees reimbursed. Even the best protections aren't going to give you more than you paid for the item. Did the credit card make him send the item back to the seller?

My recollection is that the buyer wanted approximately half of what the difference was between the GRADED values of the comics, projected and actual (didn't get the grade advertised when submitted), and also some part of the fees, can't remember why.  Like if he was going to get low grades, he wouldn't have pressed or even submitted, or something like that.  It was ALL the seller's fault - life is a guarantee, you know.  Like none of us have bought a comic with high hopes and then gotten shot down.  The buyer admitted that he didn't know how to grade, so he was RELYING on the seller, the expert.  The seller didn't budge, eBay didn't cave in (that's surprising), but the credit card company sent him a letter that they were reversing the entire payment (or the amount he originally requested).  Sorry, I'm a bit short on the specifics.  But the main theme was that you can buy a comic, send it in, get it PRESSED, get it graded, and if you are not happy, get refunded in some way.  That should get you 3-5 in the state pen.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Lightning55

[kav]

1 hour ago, Lightning55 said:

My recollection is that the buyer wanted approximately half of what the difference was between the GRADED values of the comics, projected and actual (didn't get the grade advertised when submitted), and also some part of the fees, can't remember why.  Like if he was going to get low grades, he wouldn't have pressed or even submitted, or something like that.  It was ALL the seller's fault - life is a guarantee, you know.  Like none of us have bought a comic with high hopes and then gotten shot down.  The buyer admitted that he didn't know how to grade, so he was RELYING on the seller, the expert.  The seller didn't budge, eBay didn't cave in (that's surprising), but the credit card company sent him a letter that they were reversing the entire payment (or the amount he originally requested).  Sorry, I'm a bit short on the specifics.  But the main theme was that you can buy a comic, send it in, get it PRESSED, get it graded, and if you are not happy, get refunded in some way.  That should get you 3-5 in the state pen.

thats like buying lottery ticket and demanding refund if you dont win.

[Sensei Ryan]

14 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

A return can be made for any reason, in general. Could be for a missing page, could be for one spine stress too many which leads to a differing of opinion between your perception of grade and the seller's description. "Item not as described" covers a plethora of reasons for dissatisfaction and a wish to return for refund, which a buyer can file and ebay will remedy if necessary in the event that the seller stonewalls the return request. . 

This is true, however the buyer altered the condition - blatantly - of the item that was for sale (albeit assuming what they bought was sound, based on the OP's reiterating of the purchase).  While eBay usually favors the buyer in this case if the seller could prove the condition had been altered (and that there was no proof the CF was missing in the first place) I would argue that the seller would win this case.  I've had buyers claim things before that clearly were manipulative on their end and have had eBay side with me each time (so far, knock on wood).  The OP isn't going to do this as they seem to understand the situation but I don't think this would be the suggested route to go. 

[Bookery]

10 hours ago, kav said:

thats like buying lottery ticket and demanding refund if you dont win.

If you bought it off eBay, you might be able to do that.

[kav]

6 hours ago, Bookery said:

If you bought it off eBay, you might be able to do that.

Do not sell lottery tickets on ebay folks.  You wont like what happens.

[Myowncollector]

On 6/17/2020 at 8:57 PM, wombat said:

He was certainly never going to get his fees reimbursed. Even the best protections aren't going to give you more than you paid for the item. Did the credit card make him send the item back to the seller?

I sold a book on ebay for a couple grand. 3 months later they open a pay pal case saying they didn't order this. I show paypal the position feedback they left, which is crazy and gave them the tracking number. Won the paypal case. Few days later opened back up, they had credit card contact pay pal, paypal said nothing they could do, cant fight the credit card companies. So paypal refunded the credit card out of their pocket. I never got the book back. Doubt paypal got it. PayPal folded to that credit card so easy. I would of said too bad if I was paypal. PayPal only gets 1 or 1 and half percent interest off the transaction, credit card gets 20 some. Go ahead Visa, lose millions of dollars over a couple grand.

[telerites]

14 hours ago, kav said:

Do not sell lottery tickets on ebay folks.  You wont like what happens.

I bought a lottery ticket off of Ebay and won a million quatloos.  The only problem is they are only redeemable on Triskelion. 

[Keys_Collector]

Some good back and forth here with great suggestions for what the OP should do.  Here's my take on it:

The buyer should have contacted the seller and told him what happened.  I doubt he'll accept the return but you never know.  There are lots of sellers out there that are understanding and genuine, kind people.  Maybe even he submitted and knew about it but forgot prior to selling.  Point is, you never know unless you ask!

The buyer should have contacted CGC to inform them as others have already said, they should know that this happened if it was their fault.  Get in touch with the right person at CGC and they might try to make it right monetarily.  If not at the very least, you have done what you can to let them know and they could potentially log this as occurring to see if there are trends in the quality control of their grading.

We see it too often on these boards where people come here to make a thread instead of going directly to the source whether its the seller or CGC.  Take that course of action first BEFORE posting on here about it.  Taking time to post a thread instead of trying to actually resolve the issue tends to delegitimize the situation a bit IMO.

On another note, i'm not sure why people are leaving a laughing comment on the first post.  There is no way to prove that the OP is either lying or telling the truth but its not like he has 1 post on the forum and came here as an anonymous person to rag on CGC or get his money back.  If the OP is actually being genuine then its surely a frustrating situation for any collector and not a laughing matter. 

[Max Carnage]

Reminds me of a Amazing Spider-Man 13 9.2 OWW blue label I bought, cracked, had pressed, and resubbed and it came back restored  back in 2012.

Matt Nelson had a look and said CGC must have missed the color touch the first time on the black spine line on the back cover

 

[KryptoSpidey]

I'm still waiting for someone to pony up the $5 or $10 for the graders notes to see what was originally noted before anyone plays judge,jury and CGC executioner.... OP should be 1st to pony up with CGC note info on what YOU bought...

Edited June 20, 2020 by KryptoSpidey

[stock_rotation]

12 hours ago, KryptoSpidey said:

I'm still waiting for someone to pony up the $5 or $10 for the graders notes to see what was originally noted before anyone plays judge,jury and CGC executioner.... OP should be 1st to pony up with CGC note info on what YOU bought...

OP is not going to throw another nickel down this particular rathole. Because what does it get me? Who cares if it's in the grader's notes? It wasn't on the label, and I used the label to assume that one of the core jobs of the grader was completed and documented. If it's in the grader's notes but not on the label, how is that not still a huge problem? Do you pull grader's notes for every encapsulated book you've ever purchased? Should you have to?

There seems to be some confusion by some posters in this thread about my intentions. I thought it was clear in the first post, but I'll reiterate: I lost completely here. There will be no clever way to recoup my money. No one is going to cover this loss. Because of CGC's sloppiness, this book was a hot potato and I got caught with it. The original post was to tell you that what you've probably assumed is true about every slab that's passed through your hands is assuredly not. Some of you are skeptical of my claim, and you're not wrong to do so. With no proof, the only thing I can fall back on as "evidence" is that I'm not asking anything of anybody. That might give some of you pause to ask what's my endgame. The answer is that I don't have one. I didn't come here to find a solution, I came here to commiserate with people like @Max Carnage who also got burned.

tl;dr version: it's not just missed color touch or missed trimming you need to worry about. There might also be missing pages.

[KryptoSpidey]

42 minutes ago, stock_rotation said:

OP is not going to throw another nickel down this particular rathole. Because what does it get me? Who cares if it's in the grader's notes? It wasn't on the label, and I used the label to assume that one of the core jobs of the grader was completed and documented. If it's in the grader's notes but not on the label, how is that not still a huge problem? Do you pull grader's notes for every encapsulated book you've ever purchased? Should you have to?

There seems to be some confusion by some posters in this thread about my intentions. I thought it was clear in the first post, but I'll reiterate: I lost completely here. There will be no clever way to recoup my money. No one is going to cover this loss. Because of CGC's sloppiness, this book was a hot potato and I got caught with it. The original post was to tell you that what you've probably assumed is true about every slab that's passed through your hands is assuredly not. Some of you are skeptical of my claim, and you're not wrong to do so. With no proof, the only thing I can fall back on as "evidence" is that I'm not asking anything of anybody. That might give some of you pause to ask what's my endgame. The answer is that I don't have one. I didn't come here to find a solution, I came here to commiserate with people like @Max Carnage who also got burned.

tl;dr version: it's not just missed color touch or missed trimming you need to worry about. There might also be missing pages.

I feel your pain. I'm not judging you or anyone else. Do I pull graders notes on every book I purchase? NO. But if I have any question about a book, it's grade, ECT,YES I pony up the bucks and see what exactly I'm buying. Did it  get pass CGC? Maybe. Maybe not. It might be in the grader's notes,or not. Is it possible it got left off the label? Completely. I didn't look up the label info to see when it was slabbed. CGC went through so odd times at points. I look for CGC 9.2 books I know were graded during a period of a couple years that almost always come back 9.4 on straight resubmit. So was there a period your book would have gotten the grade it did with a centerfold missing? Maybe, I don't know for sure,but I guarantee a look at the grader's notes would start the process of an answer about that. That was my point bud. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by KryptoSpidey

[MatterEaterLad]

I know you don't want to, but please contact CGC. I'm sure they would want to know so they can address the weak link in their grading chain.

I paid thousands for a book that was C-1 (minor color touch). I had the CT removed, sent it in for regrading and it came back C-2 (grader's notes now say THREE more areas of CT). 

I contacted them and said that I wouldn't have bought the book if it was C-2. (The original grader's notes didn't list the other areas of CT).

They botched it. Not sure what they'll do.

They're intimating that they'll take it back to C-1, since the other areas are small. They sent me a mailing label, info to send it back as a mechanical error. They're also running it by Matt Nelson. 

They're trying to make it right. 

 

 

[Lightning55]

2 hours ago, KryptoSpidey said:

I feel your pain. I'm not judging you or anyone else. Do I pull graders notes on every book I purchase? NO. But if I have any question about a book, it's grade, ECT,YES I pony up the bucks and see what exactly I'm buying. Did it  get pass CGC? Maybe. Maybe not. It might be in the grader's notes,or not. Is it possible it got left off the label? Completely. I didn't look up the label info to see when it was slabbed. CGC went through so odd times at points. I look for CGC 9.2 books I know were graded during a period of a couple years that almost always come back 9.4 on straight resubmit. So was there a period your book would have gotten the grade it did with a centerfold missing? Maybe, I don't know for sure,but I guarantee a look at the grader's notes would start the process of an answer about that. That was my point bud. 

The OP gets your point, just doesn't care how it happened, not interested in chasing it down, living with the outcome.  He's bringing it here to let other people know what happened, in case it applies to them.  I don't think you will be seeing the notes any time soon, unless you feel compelled to get them. 

[Iconic1s]

Hello, did anyone get the chance to look this up before it was removed from the census?  I was going to pony up the $5.00 for the notes just out of curiosity but it looks like it has already been removed.

I learned this lesson about 10 years ago... I bought a CGC 7.0 Avengers #4 that looked like an easy upgrade with a press.  It had what the seller 'thought' was a 1/2 inch crease on the back cover and from the photos it looked to me like it may be able to press out.  I bought the book and sent it to Classics and that's when I learned it was actually a 1/2 inch tear and that the book had no chance at upgrade.  When I did buy the notes the tear was documented.  I still have the book... it was an expensive lesson at the time but has been a good investment since then because I held onto it.  I did not pitch a fit with the seller because from our conversations I did not get the feeling that he was trying to pull one over on me, just an honest mistake that I could have prevented if I had paid for the notes before buying such a book.  In life, sometimes it costs a few bucks to learn a lesson that you won't repeat.

I would have loved to pay for the notes on this Nellie the Nurse just to put this to rest.  If the centerfold missing was not noted I would have seen no reason not to at least plead my case to CGC... all they could do is so 'no' and I'd be no less worse off.  Now we'll never know if they made a mistake or not, or if they would have made it right, if they did.  

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Iconic1s
typo

[steveinthecity]

I wonder when exactly this was removed from the census? 

[DavidTheDavid]

9 minutes ago, steveinthecity said:

I wonder when exactly this was removed from the census? 

Yeah, looks sketchy for it to have been removed. @CGC Comics @Brittany M. any idea what's up with this?