scroogenightmare Buyer Beware: Men's Adventures #14 on eBay 2 2

[sacentaur]

11 hours ago, telerites said:

Matt Wilson's brother, too?

Is that correct, Steve?

Yes, correct.

[Robot Man]

Thanks for the heads up. I had my eye on it but think I shall pass...

[creaturefan95]

10 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

Thanks for the heads up. I had my eye on it but think I shall pass...

Don't you have one already? 

[MrBedrock]

7 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

He no longer shows up in the Heritage website org chart

Interesting news if they actually let him go.

[DanCooper]

It also looks like Mark's PGC Mint website is updated with new items added in June and his other ebay seller's account "Dizneyart" is also active with items added recently

 

 

[PopKulture]

5 hours ago, DanCooper said:

It also looks like Mark's PGC Mint website is updated with new items added in June and his other ebay seller's account "Dizneyart" is also active with items added recently

Wow, I had no idea he was dizneyart. I see those listings quite frequently as I search magazines and Sunday strips often enough. He's had some really rare Marilyn stuff over the years I've noticed. 

[Bumble Kitty]

On 6/17/2020 at 10:05 PM, sacentaur said:

A comic book restoration guy from back in the day who was eventually vilified for monkeying with books and not disclosing his work because he didn’t consider it to be “restoration.” At one point his reputation became so egregious, he left ebay and then returned selling slabbed comics only.

He has had numerous AKA’s on eBay, you can probably guess why.

He marketed the Rockford collection.

His progeny, at least some of them, are ebay sellers who also manipulate books (e.g., the infamous reverse spine roll technique).

Now he works for Heritage as part of their staff, you can see his picture in their catalogs. Go figure.

This explains a lot.  I hate posting about this topic, as I wanted to put the experience behind me, as it left a very bad taste in my mouth.  But I probably should, as a warning to others.

A few months ago, I won two raw books on ebay from Scroogenightmare.  The first book was described as having a front cover crease that did not break color.  It had mostly a dark and black cover.  Great, sounds like I could press it. The second book was a little higher grade.  But both scans looked nice!

When I received both books, I inspected the first book with a jeweler's loop and I found three tiny color touches along the spine. The front cover crease was awfully deep.  Inspecting that part of the book, I found color touch.  All of the color touch was very well done.  No bleed through and I had to tilt the book a bit to get the right angle to detect the color touch.  Very well done.

The second book had a miswrap, as the back cover wrapped a little around the front, but that didn't bother me.  Well heck, there was one spot of color touch on the white area.  I couldn't figure out why anyone would do that?!! It was part of the back cover!  At that point, I looked no further.  I thought about having the books pressed (they would have benefited just a bit from a press) and the color touch removed.  With the first book, I don't know.  What would it grade with the color touch removed?  I didn't want to take a chance that it came back at 6.0, or worse.  I figured the second book would grade about an 8.5 with the removal and press.  Of course, I was just making an educated guess.

At this point, I asked for a refund.  I was taken aback at his reply:  He was an expert, there is no color touch, as he trained the first CGC graders when that company opened, blah blah blah.  It reminded me when Robert Beerbong "snowed" me many years ago.  When he received the books, he again stated there was no color touch and there was more than one way to detect color touch.  He was going to send the books to CGC to confirm there is no color touch.

He contacted me a few weeks later to tell me the books indeed came back from CGC in blue labels, and he was right and I was wrong.  I checked for the books on ebay and they sold the first day.  The second book came back at 8.5.  But the first book, with the front cover crease came back at 6.5.  But what disturbed me was a slight light distortion in the area of the crease.

I talked to a boardie to get his take, as maybe I need a dose of reality. I was surprised that he also had a recent unpleasant transaction with Scroogenightmare!

I don't know, maybe I don't know how to grade, maybe I can't spot color touch if I spilled a gallon of paint on my shoes and maybe I can't tell when a scan is manipulated because I no longer have 20/15 vision.  But I do know when something smells fishy.  All I know is I will never buy another raw or slabbed book from him.  And I didn't know he worked for Heritage.  Hopefully they parted ways with him, but if he is still there, they will NOT get any of my books for auction, regardless if I lose money selling elsewhere.

End of story, as I am pissed off rehashing this experience.

 

[vheflin]

[Phill the Governor]

It warms my heart and stabilizes my confidence in buying raw books when I run into a thread like this. I was the underbidder on the initial auction a few weeks back. Just missed out on a 5.5, and the 7.0, and anther raw one and decided to settle on this copy until I could upgrade.

 

It's funny finding a thread like this afterwards, when you are the winning bidder. 

 

I've been so busy, I overlooked the interior pen indicating it was the same book from weeks earlier. Looking forward to getting it and seeing what's up. Aside from the tape I'm not overly concerned. More so about the staple rust as previously mentioned here. But for $50.. meh, I do like the cover and it presents well.

[Randall Dowling]

Wilson really irritates me.

[The Lions Den]

On 6/19/2020 at 2:34 AM, Bumble Kitty said:

When I received both books, I inspected the first book with a jeweler's loop and I found three tiny color touches along the spine. The front cover crease was awfully deep.  Inspecting that part of the book, I found color touch.  All of the color touch was very well done.  No bleed through and I had to tilt the book a bit to get the right angle to detect the color touch.  Very well done.

A very interesting tale---thank you for your insight and candor.

Some of the folks "touching up" books have been doing it a long time and they've become very adept at it. They also use more "professional" materials which can be very difficult to detect, even for the graders at CGC (no bleed through usually indicates professional color touch to me). And when someone actually confronts them about it, they use a variety of tactics to either completely deny or cast doubt on the whole situation. After all, the last thing they want is for their reputation to be permanently tarnished.

What I do find most interesting about your story is the fact that he eventually submitted the books to CGC and received the coveted blue label. To me, this means he either removed the color touch before he submitted the books or that CGC missed it. I sincerely hope that it was the first scenario... 

Edited June 22, 2020 by The Lions Den

[Doctor Dositheus]

On 6/18/2020 at 2:58 PM, MrBedrock said:

Interesting news if they actually let him go.

I just got an email one hour ago from Mark Wilson, Consignment Director for HA.

[telerites]

3 minutes ago, Doctor Dositheus said:

I just got an email one hour ago from Mark Wilson, Consignment Director for HA.

That is strange.  When you look at HA's Comic Consignment Team page, he does not appear.

https://comics.ha.com/c/ref/consignment-directors.zx?ic14=Acquisitions-WantAnswers-Consign-MeetTeam-032117

 

[Doctor Dositheus]

Well, I never bought from them before this year, so maybe he gets assigned the newb accounts figuring they won't know much.



(I didn't want to risk any trouble posting the email address but I'm sure you can figure it out )

Edited June 22, 2020 by Doctor Dositheus
Just wanted to add, I'm not trying to mess with anyone's livelihood. I would have no problem letting him handle a potential consignment.

[MrBedrock]

35 minutes ago, Doctor Dositheus said:

Well, I never bought from them before this year, so maybe he gets assigned the newb accounts figuring they won't know much.



(I didn't want to risk any trouble posting the email address but I'm sure you can figure it out )

If he has been let go then I imagine Heritage wouldn't be too happy with him representing otherwise. And I wouldn't put it past him to do that either. He is a bad situation.

[Doctor Dositheus]

6 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

If he has been let go then I imagine Heritage wouldn't be too happy with him representing otherwise. And I wouldn't put it past him to do that either. He is a bad situation.

The email ends in @ha.com. He's definitely still there. The contents had to do with something only somebody still there would know.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Doctor Dositheus
elaborate further

[MrBedrock]

6 minutes ago, Doctor Dositheus said:

The email ends in @ha.com. He's definitely still there. The contents had to do with something only somebody still there would know.

Just heard from someone at Heritage. He is still there.

[Bumble Kitty]

13 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

A very interesting tale---thank you for your insight and candor.

Some of the folks "touching up" books have been doing it a long time and they've become very adept at it. They also use more "professional" materials which can be very difficult to detect, even for the graders at CGC (no bleed through usually indicates professional color touch to me). And when someone actually confronts them about it, they use a variety of tactics to either completely deny or cast doubt on the whole situation. After all, the last thing they want is for their reputation to be permanently tarnished.

What I do find most interesting about your story is the fact that he eventually submitted the books to CGC and received the coveted blue label. To me, this means he either removed the color touch before he submitted the books or that CGC missed it. I sincerely hope that it was the first scenario... 

I suspect that he removed the color touch and then submitted the books to CGC.  That is what I was thinking of doing, but I felt the second book would receive a 6.0 grade.

I shake my head at the whole thing -- why didn't he just press and slab the books and make more money.  I can't understand that mindset of trying to deceive.  It reminds me of a class mate way back in high school:  a smart student who would cheat on homework and tests.  That behavior was baked into his DNA.  We would kid back then that he would cheat even on opinion tests. It was funny back then.  Now, it's real sad.