Fears in the Hobby 0

[AnkurJ]

12 minutes ago, eewwnuk said:

Only fears i have as it relates to comic art are fire, water and the mailman.  

I have an answer for all three! Private insurance! 

[alxjhnsn]

I have no cares or fears at all about my art becoming worthless. I spend only money that I would spend on any other hobby. [I have tried to break the rule twice, but failed both times.]

Other hobbies, e.g., golf, season tickets for sporting events, or flying, have no return at all. That's my benchmark.

It's a good thing that resale isn't really an issue for me because I buy a lot of commissions and they aren't worth much after I get them. I mean seriously, how many people would buy a collection of faux Sugar and Spike #100 covers? Not many since the books haven't been in print for 50+ years with the exception of a DC Archive and one special edition.

I do worry a bit about fire and flood and such. Insurance would help, but the loss would be awful.
 

Edited June 19, 2020 by alxjhnsn

[Foolkiller]

Ankur --

As someone who is somewhat new to art and willing to spend very high sums of money for the right piece(s) I guess my feeling is that I'm not sure there's a right answer to the idea of 'not overpaying' and the 'rules' or 'guidances' you're suggesting.  

First, what is any piece of art actually worth -- it's all made up.  At some point or other, most of the major collectors holding great pieces have 'overpaid' and sometimes significantly.  This is also true in fine art, but in speaking to many of the folks who have historically developed over time, they were all told they were crazy to pay x at one time or another.  

Second, I have no problem paying aggressive for the pieces I like and this had led to things being offered that I'm not sure would otherwise be offered.  Frankly, I don't care if someone thinks I 'overpaid' because this is the only one like it -- so I can't say well it's 'overvalued' except to say it's beyond my own personal analysis.

Third, there are disagreements all the time in pricing.  An example is one where you were recently shopping a piece that was offered to me at roughly half of what you were selling it for.  Does that make you wrong or 'over valued'?  Maybe, maybe not.  Same with other pieces you've actively promoted.  Now when other guys talk and say you're crazy for pricing that high or you're overvaluing it significantly, it may or may not be true.  Should everyone stand their ground with you?  Of course not, if it's something you really want.

There's a tremendous amount of subjectivity in art.  Valuation is very difficult to tell -- and while it's true there are some examples the other way where we could go to extremes, most art is priced in some sort of etherial gray area which makes it absolutely impossible to determine who should be walking away and who shouldn't.  

If there's a piece I want, I have a price I want to pay.  Just because you have some idea of what it's worth on the market doesn't mean I or anyone else should be following it.  And I say that the same for your pricing of art -- you price plenty of pieces others are very critical of, and I don't think they're right and you're wrong.  

[comicginger1789]

My biggest fear is that my collection could be stolen or destroyed in some manner....and to be honest, it is not even something I think about often but when I do, I feel super bummed that, in reality, it could happen. Thankfully, I live in a newer home, my books are stored well and our city/neighbourhood is not frequented by much crime at all (at least not theft) so these "fears" are very very small.

Fear of missing out? Every day I miss out on probably hundreds or thousands of good deal. You all do. You cannot see every book, every piece of art, every collectible comic item being sold. Kinda like you can't predict when the world will end, so is that really even a fear?

Fear of overpaying? This is a simple one. If you pay for something and that is all you think about, you overpaid. Even going into it, if you budge from your number where you feel comfortable, you likely will always have that feeling of overpaying. I have overpaid before but at the end of the day, I either kept the books because they were not such a gross overpayment that I can't stand to look at them OR I sold them for that reason. No point having something you don't like if all it does is bring up bad memories. Early on collecting, and for newer collectors, you are probably going to overpay from time to time. Accept it. You are gonna spend $5-10 on stuff you maybe could have gotten for $2-3 if you were patient or knew where to hunt. Time and experience will ensure this happens less and less as you continue in the hobby.

Fear of overpricing? Unless you have to move a book this second, you start a bit higher than you think you should get. Then you slowly drop it. If you want a quick sale, you drop to what you would happily accept. If you are unhappy with an amount, don't sell. And if you want to be up on prices of books, there are sites, forums and people to follow who organize such info. Besides, if you sell a $5 book that is actually currently a $20 book, you are sweating the small stuff. Be more worried if you are selling a $500 for $100. 

I just don't find these fears to be affecting me personally but if you do hopefully some of what I have blathered on about helps. 

[grapeape]

2 hours ago, eewwnuk said:

Only fears i have as it relates to comic art are fire, water and the mailman.  

The dog ate my Amazing Spider-Man 6 pages—-signed,

Worst Nightmare Realized 💀 

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, Foolkiller said:

Ankur --

As someone who is somewhat new to art and willing to spend very high sums of money for the right piece(s) I guess my feeling is that I'm not sure there's a right answer to the idea of 'not overpaying' and the 'rules' or 'guidances' you're suggesting.  

First, what is any piece of art actually worth -- it's all made up.  At some point or other, most of the major collectors holding great pieces have 'overpaid' and sometimes significantly.  This is also true in fine art, but in speaking to many of the folks who have historically developed over time, they were all told they were crazy to pay x at one time or another.  

Second, I have no problem paying aggressive for the pieces I like and this had led to things being offered that I'm not sure would otherwise be offered.  Frankly, I don't care if someone thinks I 'overpaid' because this is the only one like it -- so I can't say well it's 'overvalued' except to say it's beyond my own personal analysis.

Third, there are disagreements all the time in pricing.  An example is one where you were recently shopping a piece that was offered to me at roughly half of what you were selling it for.  Does that make you wrong or 'over valued'?  Maybe, maybe not.  Same with other pieces you've actively promoted.  Now when other guys talk and say you're crazy for pricing that high or you're overvaluing it significantly, it may or may not be true.  Should everyone stand their ground with you?  Of course not, if it's something you really want.

There's a tremendous amount of subjectivity in art.  Valuation is very difficult to tell -- and while it's true there are some examples the other way where we could go to extremes, most art is priced in some sort of etherial gray area which makes it absolutely impossible to determine who should be walking away and who shouldn't.  

If there's a piece I want, I have a price I want to pay.  Just because you have some idea of what it's worth on the market doesn't mean I or anyone else should be following it.  And I say that the same for your pricing of art -- you price plenty of pieces others are very critical of, and I don't think they're right and you're wrong.  

The part you are missing is the nostalgia factor in pricing. Unless you are going after serious classics, which have a different set of issues, a lot of things will “age out” as the owners, who read the stories, retire and sell off their collections, but the new generation didn’t read the books or love them. An example is the drop in Barry Windsor Smith Conan art. It’s the new stuff that will show a rise. Love Dark Knights Metal? That’s the future. 

As to the really high end stuff, I think the question is how much high end money is really coming in, and will it support the existing price structure? I confess that I have been fooled in the past by the public’s willingness to spend money on things, but this remains a niche hobby.

[exitmusicblue]

No fears, really.  Or perhaps they've been minimized.  Transit time / lack or communication can get a bit worrying once in a while, but that's about it, and easy to keep things in perspective.

OA is my escape; can't really fear anything here!

[ShallowDan]

4 hours ago, AnkurJ said:

I have an answer for all three! Private insurance! 

Just speaking for myself here, but to the degree that I worry about these things (fire, water, other sort of loss), it's not really so much the financial/money aspect of it that worries me, but rather the fact that unique, one-of-a-kind, items, of which I am the current steward, would be permanently lost.  The thought of that just sucks.  

In my mind, it would be like a poor-man's version of the Universal Music fire.  Sure there are copies of all that stuff that still exists, but the original, master recordings are lost to all time.

[tth2]

19 hours ago, AnkurJ said:

Some pieces from certain books and artists just don’t show up on the market that often. Examples would be Ditko Spiderman, Cockrum X-Men and Miller Daredevil.

Is this really the case?

There seem to be multiple Miller DDs in every Heritage Signature auction.

Ditko Spidermans seem to come up pretty often in Heritage Signature auctions too.

Cockrum X-Men aren't as common as Byrne X-men, but Cockrum X-Men seem to be coming up more often lately. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by tth2

[Rick2you2]

4 minutes ago, tth2 said:

There seem to be multiple Miller DDs in every Heritage Signature auction.

Ditko Spidermans seem to come up pretty often in Heritage Signature auctions too.

Cockrum X-Men aren't as common as Byrne X-men, but Cockrum X-Men seem to be coming up more often lately. 

It’s part of the aging out process. Are they still going up, finally stabilized or gone down?

[jjonahjameson11]

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

It’s part of the aging out process. Are they still going up, finally stabilized or gone down?

Difficult to answer since every piece is unique.  On occasion, the same page comes up for auction and sometimes it goes for more than the previous sale, other times for less.

regarding the decline in BWS Conan pages and the collector base ‘aging out’, I don’t know if we can paint a broad stroke through the early 70’s like that.  Is the same downward trend confirmed for Wrightson Swamp Thing or Kaluta Shadow Pages?  How about Brunner Dr. Strange or HTD Pages? 

I don’t follow early 70s art prices very closely, but it doesn’t seem as though the non-BWS Conan stuff I mentioned was declining in price.  If it did, I would be interested in acquiring some examples 

[AnkurJ]

1 hour ago, tth2 said:

Is this really the case?

There seem to be multiple Miller DDs in every Heritage Signature auction.

Ditko Spidermans seem to come up pretty often in Heritage Signature auctions too.

Cockrum X-Men aren't as common as Byrne X-men, but Cockrum X-Men seem to be coming up more often lately. 

Outside of these major auctions having a few pieces, we don’t see many of these being offered, especially publicly. Now with heritage having auctions every two months I think the quality of offerings will be less.