What is Everyone's Opinion on Color Touch? 4 4

[kav]

5 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

The Watcher is generally depicted as being larger than a human, but just how MUCH larger fluctuates depending on the artist.

Is this a good place to derail so I can complain about the fact that Darkseid used to be, like, just a "big guy", but these days he's like 16' tall or something? Why did that happen?

 

same with superman's fortress key.  That sucker fluctuates in size and thickness more than ant man.

[F For Fake]

9 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I have no idea

I mainly posed the question, because I always thought he WAS in the foreground and I don't know why I missed it....

Darkseid probably because it made for more battle sequences or easier to depict and have punches thrown

Pure guessing speculation!

 

On that particular cover, I think it's actually both. Watcher is bigger than the people, but there's also some forced perspective going on for dramatic purposes. Great cover regardless!

[01TheDude]

8 hours ago, kav said:

He can be as tall as he wants!

he's huge!

[kav]

8 minutes ago, 01TheDude said:

he's huge!

Kingpin love child

[Keep_It_Clunky]

I feel like the stigma and negative backlash on ct/resto books (pro or amateur) wasn't as great during the pre-cgc world. There were definitely unscrupulous dealers that did amateur ct to deceive customers, and many of us buying back then were burned. However, nowadays resto books are a great alternative to obtaining what for many are books that are completely out of reach. So I think they have their niche and place. The plods actually perform a great service, they tell the customer exactly what is going on with the book.

[Get Marwood & I]

3 hours ago, Keep_It_Clunky said:

The plods actually perform a great service, they tell the customer exactly what is going on with the book.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with that. Once slabbed, you can't hold a book up to inspect the colour touch for yourself, see where it bleeds through, where it is, check it in the light etc. And a 'small amount of colour touch' label description doesn't itself tell me where, how many instances or how significant the amount is.

Take this example posted earlier - "small amount of color touch on cover":

 

The B-2 definition indicates that that 'small amount' could be 1" × 1":

Why use the word 'small' on the label wording when the grading scale terms - also on the label - are 'slight' and 'moderate'? I find that misleading, especially if I don't happen to recall the precise definition of B-2 without looking it up. 

Personally, 'small' to me indicates a dot here or there - a one inch square color touch could hardly be called small in the context of a comic cover's dimensions, could it? CGC would do better to drop the use of the word 'small' and stick to their own 'slight', 'moderate' etc grading terms.

If one book can have a tiny dot of CT on the black of the spine, another significant amounts, both books get the same purple label and both see their value and desirability almost equally destroyed. 

So I see CGC's current practice as unecessarily unclear and the end product - the PLOD - value destroying regardless of the extent of the CT present. It doesn't help either when you see blue labels with 'very small amount of CT' on them either. If 'small' is 'slight/moderate' then 'very small' should be 'slight' and, therefore, a PLOD. 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

In respect of CT,

'Slight' (1) is 'light':

 

'Slight' is lower than 'small', as 'small' appears on B-2 labels where 2 is 'slight/moderate' 

But 'very small' is lower than 'slight', as it gets a Blue and is, presumably, not considered restoration:

 

Small, very small, slight, light, moderate...

 

 

[James J Johnson]

19 hours ago, kav said:

same with superman's fortress key.  That sucker fluctuates in size and thickness more than ant man.

From the standpoint of practicality, Once he unlocks the door, which going by Superman's relative size to the part of the key that turns the locking mechanism would necessitate at least a 15 foot thick door to accommodate (and in some cases of depicted key size, far more), where does the key go? In with him? So he can relock it once he enters? Or does he have another 30 to 80 foot long skeleton key on the inside, to use when leaving? A skeleton key mechanism requires a similar access point and aperture on both sides, the locking mechanism the same whether entering or leaving. 

[kav]

36 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

From the standpoint of practicality, Once he unlocks the door, which going by Superman's relative size to the part of the key that turns the locking mechanism would necessitate at least a 15 foot thick door to accommodate (and in some cases of depicted key size, far more), where does the key go? In with him? So he can relock it once he enters? Or does he have another 30 to 80 foot long skeleton key on the inside, to use when leaving? A skeleton key mechanism requires a similar access point and aperture on both sides, the locking mechanism the same whether entering or leaving. 

plus the damned thing is supposed to be disguised as an 'airplane marker' so how many planes have gone off course and crashed due to this and why hasnt the FAA shown up to deal with the menace?

[oldbsturgeon]

that's the first time I have ever seen a book with the mention of color touch still get a universal label. very fascinating stuff

[William-James88]

On 6/21/2020 at 7:16 PM, Comicdave said:

How do you all feel in regards to slight color touch on comic books? Do you avoid them like the plague? Do you accept them as long as the book is priced accordingly? How much of a percentage should a book with slight color touch be marked down? Let's say you have a Silver Age DC super hero comic graded CGC 9.4 that would possibly sell for around $300 if it was Universal, but it received the Purple Label of Death. The only restoration is slight color touch. Let's assume the book would have graded maybe 9.0 without the color touch. If you are selling, do you price the book as if it were graded a 9.0 or maybe less if you feel the book would have graded lower without the CT? Or do you price it around a VG price? If you are buying, what percentage of the 9.4 price would you be willing to pay assuming you want the book for your collection. Are you willing to pay a higher percentage for a book with CT if it's raw but noted that the book has CT? Curious minds would like to know.

It's all supply and demand. If it's a rare and coveted book (like Showcase 4), then the colour touch wont make the book go down in value as drastically since people will still want it quite a bit. 

But say it's a Shazam 1 (from the 70s), a book that we just have a ton of, then a 9.4 with colour touch would be worth far far less because getting a 9.4 without colour touch is not hard to get at all. In that case, it could really become a purple label of death. I would definitely avoid a book like that like the plague. Same for any Silver Age DC book people don't care about. Anyone wanting to send in a colour touched Hawkman 10 from the 60s would be losing money.

So it all depends on how rare the book is and how badly people want one.

 

[William-James88]

20 hours ago, kav said:

same with superman's fortress key.  That sucker fluctuates in size and thickness more than ant man.

The size depends on how happy he is.

[Hollywood1892]

On 6/21/2020 at 7:16 PM, Comicdave said:

How do you all feel in regards to slight color touch on comic books? Do you avoid them like the plague? Do you accept them as long as the book is priced accordingly? How much of a percentage should a book with slight color touch be marked down? Let's say you have a Silver Age DC super hero comic graded CGC 9.4 that would possibly sell for around $300 if it was Universal, but it received the Purple Label of Death. The only restoration is slight color touch. Let's assume the book would have graded maybe 9.0 without the color touch. If you are selling, do you price the book as if it were graded a 9.0 or maybe less if you feel the book would have graded lower without the CT? Or do you price it around a VG price? If you are buying, what percentage of the 9.4 price would you be willing to pay assuming you want the book for your collection. Are you willing to pay a higher percentage for a book with CT if it's raw but noted that the book has CT? Curious minds would like to know.

I feel the same way about color touch that I do about fake Rolex and counterfeit sports and clothing apparel

[piper]

2 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I feel the same way about color touch that I do about fake Rolex and counterfeit sports and clothing apparel

What’s wrong with a good Folex?

[kav]

2 minutes ago, piper said:

What’s wrong with a good Folex?

Faulex

[piper]

I have a handful of restored books in my collection, e.g TEC 37, Adventure 46, Weird Comics 1. This made it possible for me to afford copies. I shouldn’t have any problems selling them in the future.

On the other hand, I think there’s a really stigma about restoration on books from the 60’s and beyond. I won’t touch them knowingly.

[Keep_It_Clunky]

16 hours ago, oldbsturgeon said:

that's the first time I have ever seen a book with the mention of color touch still get a universal label. very fascinating stuff

This was a bizarre one that I received back from them when they first introduced the specialized labels. Could they not do these in purple, or did they screw up?

[Keep_It_Clunky]

On 6/26/2020 at 4:18 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I'm not sure I entirely agree with that. Once slabbed, you can't hold a book up to inspect the colour touch for yourself, see where it bleeds through, where it is, check it in the light etc. And a 'small amount of colour touch' label description doesn't itself tell me where, how many instances or how significant the amount is.

Take this example posted earlier - "small amount of color touch on cover":

 

The B-2 definition indicates that that 'small amount' could be 1" × 1":

Why use the word 'small' on the label wording when the grading scale terms - also on the label - are 'slight' and 'moderate'? I find that misleading, especially if I don't happen to recall the precise definition of B-2 without looking it up. 

Personally, 'small' to me indicates a dot here or there - a one inch square color touch could hardly be called small in the context of a comic cover's dimensions, could it? CGC would do better to drop the use of the word 'small' and stick to their own 'slight', 'moderate' etc grading terms.

If one book can have a tiny dot of CT on the black of the spine, another significant amounts, both books get the same purple label and both see their value and desirability almost equally destroyed. 

So I see CGC's current practice as unecessarily unclear and the end product - the PLOD - value destroying regardless of the extent of the CT present. It doesn't help either when you see blue labels with 'very small amount of CT' on them either. If 'small' is 'slight/moderate' then 'very small' should be 'slight' and, therefore, a PLOD. 

 

I agree with you overall. Once slabbed, there's nothing you can do. Color touch aside, the slabs conceal a great deal. 

[Get Marwood & I]

Just now, Keep_It_Clunky said:

I agree with you overall. Once slabbed, there's nothing you can do. Color touch aside, the slabs conceal a great deal. 

They do indeed, as @lizards2 often points out when he's in slab cracking mode.

I always think simplicity works best myself. In this case, the crossover of terminology is confusing. Restoration cannot be, in the case of Scale #4, Moderate and Extensive concurrently. It's either one or the other. Given how the industry tends to react to restoration you would think a three point scale would suffice - Slight, Moderate and Extensive. In my experience, nothing divides opinion more clearly in the hobby - people either avoid restoration of any level like the plague, or they accept it. If I'm right, the divisions are an unnecessary complication - how many collectors do you know who would say "I like that book but it has 'Moderate' restoration so I won't touch it. Hmmm, hold on. This copy only has 'Slight/Moderate' - I'll take it!"

Never happens does it.

So here we are, discussing scenarios at the fringes that don't add up because CGC have other thought and over complicated a simple thing. There's either a little resto, quite a bit, or loads of it. Anything else is just getting in the way.

See also 9.2, 9.4, 9.6, 9.8, 9.9, 10 and Gem 10 (or whatever it is) - a book cannot be mint and another mint plus. Over-complicated it all, they have...

[badback83]

2 hours ago, Keep_It_Clunky said:

This was a bizarre one that I received back from them when they first introduced the specialized labels. Could they not do these in purple, or did they screw up?

First time I’ve seen this.  Interesting.