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Moderns are basically just SA DC Imaginary Stories
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54 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, F For Fake said:

Hey @Ken Aldred one more thing since I've already highjacked Kav's thread; when you read the Avengers/New Avengers/Secret Wars story, did your read it as it was coming out, or in collected form? When I read it, it was over the course of a couple of weeks during a summer vacation at the lake when it rained the whole time so there wasn't much else to do. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but I remember thinking at the time that if I'd had to read it over the course of months/years, I may have given up on it. I really wonder how it worked for folks in periodical form. There's a lot to digest, and I have the attention span of a gnat. I'm not sure I would have gotten nearly as much out of it had I not been able to absorb it all so quickly.

Marvel digital, and following an online reading order guide and online recommendations about the best Battleworld stories.

 

Edited by Ken Aldred
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8 hours ago, F For Fake said:

The Vision was a 12 issue miniseries by Tom King, came out a couple of years ago. An offbeat examination of The Vision as he attempts to (literally) construct a "normal" life in the suburbs with a family that he creates himself. Offbeat and odd, it's kind of a suburban superhero drama with touches of dark comedy and horror

 

(my emphasis added)

I think this exactly corroborates Kav's original thesis of "Silver Age DC imaginary stories."  This kind of Vision story would have been extremely unlikely in the Marvel Universe from 1961-1995, when everything could be found to fit into the overall continual narrative of the collective universe.  Since the mid-90s, there has been an increase of "disposable" storytelling from Marvel, and the same thing has been happening at DC since the New52.  I'd suggest that "Heroes Reborn" and "Heroes Return" really started this, but Spider-Man's Clone Saga paved the way. Writers come up with a big plan, launch it, fans don't like it, so they just wipe it away. At this point it even applies to stories that were well-liked, such as Tom King's Vision. What's going on with this since the series ended in 2016? It's just over... "Whatever happened to the Vision's suburban family...?"  

Compare this to the era of the "no-prize" when even Marvel's fans were active in maintaining the continuity. There was value to having one continuing, long-form narrative. You felt like you knew how Peter Parker would react in certain circumstances because you had seen his thoughts for so long. Then they sell you Peter as CEO of multinational Parker Industries, with a girlfriend in every country, the ability to free-fall from space with a web parachute, etc etc until the Secret Empire storyline when Parker Industries "blew up" and it was just over. "Whatever happened to the multibillion dollar conglomerate Parker Industries...?" 

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9 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

Tom King’s Vision series is a modern classic.

Best comic story I’ve read since Watchmen/Dark Knight Returns/Kingdom Come fare. Though his Batman was weak and hi Omega Men was mediocre. I haven’t read Mister Miracle yet which is supposed to be good.

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6 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

Marvel digital, and following an online reading order guide and online recommendations about the best Battleworld stories.

 

That makes sense. Did you have any trouble following it? I feel like I would have needed a flow chart, a map and a compass had it not all been collected in those two big volumes. 

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1 hour ago, wardevil0 said:

(my emphasis added)

I think this exactly corroborates Kav's original thesis of "Silver Age DC imaginary stories."  This kind of Vision story would have been extremely unlikely in the Marvel Universe from 1961-1995, when everything could be found to fit into the overall continual narrative of the collective universe.  Since the mid-90s, there has been an increase of "disposable" storytelling from Marvel, and the same thing has been happening at DC since the New52.  I'd suggest that "Heroes Reborn" and "Heroes Return" really started this, but Spider-Man's Clone Saga paved the way. Writers come up with a big plan, launch it, fans don't like it, so they just wipe it away. At this point it even applies to stories that were well-liked, such as Tom King's Vision. What's going on with this since the series ended in 2016? It's just over... "Whatever happened to the Vision's suburban family...?"  

Compare this to the era of the "no-prize" when even Marvel's fans were active in maintaining the continuity. There was value to having one continuing, long-form narrative. You felt like you knew how Peter Parker would react in certain circumstances because you had seen his thoughts for so long. Then they sell you Peter as CEO of multinational Parker Industries, with a girlfriend in every country, the ability to free-fall from space with a web parachute, etc etc until the Secret Empire storyline when Parker Industries "blew up" and it was just over. "Whatever happened to the multibillion dollar conglomerate Parker Industries...?" 

I don't really keep up with modern Marvels, but as far as I could tell, The Vision fit in with Marvel continuity. But like I said earlier, it doesn't really matter to me, as I think continuity strangles creativity.

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3 hours ago, F For Fake said:

That makes sense. Did you have any trouble following it? I feel like I would have needed a flow chart, a map and a compass had it not all been collected in those two big volumes. 

The switching and swapping was most intrusive with the initial Avengers / New Avengers storyline, and also when those two were mixed in with the Infinity mini-series.  I only tend to read three or four issues at a time, max, and so the breakdown worked out okay.

In the individual issues, Hickman was also thoughtful enough to provide you with flow charts to guide your reading order...

infinity_checklist.jpg

I might have to look into getting those collected volumes, though.

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14 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

The switching and swapping was most intrusive with the initial Avengers / New Avengers storyline, and also when those two were mixed in with the Infinity mini-series.  I only tend to read three or four issues at a time, max, and so the breakdown worked out okay.

In the individual issues, Hickman was also thoughtful enough to provide you with flow charts to guide your reading order...

infinity_checklist.jpg

I might have to look into getting those collected volumes, though.

Oh, that would all be very handy! 

The big Avengers by Hickman Omnibuses (2 volumes collecting the complete Avengers and New Avengers runs, in the correct reading order) are currently out of print and pricey, but with Hickman being such a star for Marvel, I can only imagine they'll reprint sooner rather than later. They're handsome volumes.

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5 hours ago, F For Fake said:

I don't really keep up with modern Marvels, but as far as I could tell, The Vision fit in with Marvel continuity. But like I said earlier, it doesn't really matter to me, as I think continuity strangles creativity.

I read stories for their own sake. So many people bemoan how a character’s resurrection invalidates their ‘death’ storyline. Why? Was it good when you read it? Did the creative team treat the story with the right amount of gravitas? Was it deftly told? If you liked it, who cares if they bring said character back to life? I try to apply this reasoning to any and all comic stories; they’re imaginary tales originally told for children. Why not just enjoy the ride?

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10 hours ago, bb8 said:

Best comic story I’ve read since Watchmen/Dark Knight Returns/Kingdom Come fare. Though his Batman was weak and hi Omega Men was mediocre. I haven’t read Mister Miracle yet which is supposed to be good.

At the time I was reading MM I thought it was over-rated based on the hype, but in retrospect it had quite a few memorable moments and portrayed Scott and Barda's relationship in a way that is relatable. That being said (and keeping in the spirit if the thread), I don't see King's MM mini-series being part of DC continuity due to events in the books.

 

But I still like Vision better.

 

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