The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[01TheDude]

54 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Thanks Dude - I always like it when someone comments in one of my threads, even if it's just to say they enjoyed reading it. 

A good thought, yes, and one which I'd considered. In a separate exercise before I started the thread I looked to see if the numbers stayed the same or varied on the same issue. Here's an example from the files of four copies of the same issue of Detective Comics #280:

Four different copies, from four different eBay sellers - all have a number 7 stamp. If the stamp numbers indicated regional distribution, you would expect to see different numbers on the same comic, yes? The scenario here with the four Detectives however - and the pattern exists throughout my research - indicates that that is unlikely. There's another one on eBay UK now - also a seven. That's too unlikely for me, that 5 copies appear on eBay and all from the same 'number 7' distribution source (if that's how you meant it).

My understanding - although I haven't gone into too much detail on it - is that during the 1950's ban years we in the UK got either our own homegrown comics or reprints of US comics via the UK publishers like L Miller, Thorpe & Porter (Arnold), Alan Class and Streamline. There are suggestions that US original comics were sold illegally here and there but again, that's not an area I've looked into in any great depth.

The UK reprint titles from Miller, Class and the like were wonderful books in their own right and there were loads of them. I've owned many down the years and, in another life, I'd collect and document them all. But the 'keys' reprints have already started to move out of my financial sight - gone are the days when you could pick this book up (reprints Amazing Fantasy 15) for a few pounds:

 

hmmm --- didn't realize there was consistency in the same stamp used for multiple same copies. Did you mention that? Anyway--- that turns my thought that the stamp is possibly based on the arrival of the books. So a large supply of the same comic coming in on the same shipment-- all of them got the same stamp- possibly indicating the shipment batch number.

I've worked in mail processing in years past and we always organized the work in terms of batch processing. We sorted mail by ARRIVAL DATE, then Zip Code and then further for processing needs. I suspect these stamps were used to not only indicate the UK price but also batch stamp all the books from a specific arrival. Now that is only for the specific stamp that bothers doing this. But I think it might explain the connection. The batch being assigned-- maybe even randomly. It might help figure out some arrival times if this is true for that distributor. Not sure if that tells you anything about the overall scenario and seeing as this was a brief moment in the beginning of a new process, whatever it means seems fleeting at best. 

Edited July 11, 2020 by 01TheDude

[Get Marwood & I]

14 hours ago, 01TheDude said:

hmmm --- didn't realize there was consistency in the same stamp used for multiple same copies. Did you mention that?

Somewhere I think, yes. I lose track if I'm honest

Quote

Anyway--- that turns my thought that the stamp is possibly based on the arrival of the books. So a large supply of the same comic coming in on the same shipment-- all of them got the same stamp- possibly indicating the shipment batch number.

I've worked in mail processing in years past and we always organized the work in terms of batch processing. We sorted mail by ARRIVAL DATE, then Zip Code and then further for processing needs. I suspect these stamps were used to not only indicate the UK price but also batch stamp all the books from a specific arrival. Now that is only for the specific stamp that bothers doing this. But I think it might explain the connection. The batch being assigned-- maybe even randomly. It might help figure out some arrival times if this is true for that distributor. Not sure if that tells you anything about the overall scenario and seeing as this was a brief moment in the beginning of a new process, whatever it means seems fleeting at best. 

Interesting theory Dude. They must signify something of course. When you look at comics in general, cover differences are there for a reason - the later 'early direct editions' had the different price formats and barcodes to distinguish them from the point of view of newsstand returns vs direct sales. There has to be an operational need somewhere for a distinction. So maybe the stamp numbers indicate a particular distribution point, or UK returns process? I've yet to see anything concrete on what happened to unsold copies in the UK. Did they sit on the newsagent shelves forever until sold or were they thrown away? Or was there a way to send them back to T&P as unsold (UK unsold US unsolds, as the case may be)? Maybe the numbers signified something along those lines. Why else would it be important for a price stamp to be numbered if not to indicate to the distributor or seller something that they needed to know in order to do something operationally. The distributor distributes, the seller sells. If there are no returns, why would either require a numbered stamp? If the number signified something to do with dates, e.g. shelf life, why aren't there 12 numbers aligned to the calendar months? The books were produced monthly in the main, so why stop at 9? What could '9' mean in the context of a 12 month calendar year?

If the numbers are for different operatives, why do we see more or less the same numbers on all extant copies? Would T&P really go to the trouble of a productivity assessment for those it employed to stamp up the books? Similarly, if the numbers related to regional distribution points - nine across the country say - why do we see the same books with the same numbers on eBay all the time and not a spread of them (see Detective Comics #280 example)?

If the stamps indicate a shipping pattern - a book numbered 7 came in on ship X say - why would anyone need to know that, or care?  And if the books were ballast in the first place, again, who would care to track anything in that way? Also, that would indicate that the stamps were applied in the US prior to shipping wouldn't it? My gut tells me that T&P would have done that in Leicester where they were based. 

Lots of theories and speculation but, alas, no concrete answer. I like to speculate like this though, and propose potentially unfounded scenarios, as the urge to correct people is a strong human trait and, if the right person gets to read this, in they will dive with the answer 

[Gnasher]

15 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Thanks Dude - I always like it when someone comments in one of my threads, even if it's just to say they enjoyed reading it. 

A good thought, yes, and one which I'd considered. In a separate exercise before I started the thread I looked to see if the numbers stayed the same or varied on the same issue. Here's an example from the files of four copies of the same issue of Detective Comics #280:

Four different copies, from four different eBay sellers - all have a number 7 stamp. If the stamp numbers indicated regional distribution, you would expect to see different numbers on the same comic, yes? The scenario here with the four Detectives however - and the pattern exists throughout my research - indicates that that is unlikely. There's another one on eBay UK now - also a seven. That's too unlikely for me, that 5 copies appear on eBay and all from the same 'number 7' distribution source (if that's how you meant it)

 

 

Firstly, can I say, how much I dislike your threads... 

Secondly, that's a brilliant spot, in all my 23 years () I've never noticed that about the uniform numbering of an issue, We live and learn 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Gnasher

[Get Marwood & I]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

Firstly, can I say, how much I dislike your threads... 

Sartorially, I've always leaned more towards the Catweazle meets Doctor Who in a car crash look, yes. 

[Get Marwood & I]

4 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Secondly, that's a brilliant spot, in all my 23 years () I've never noticed that about the uniform numbering of an issue, We live and learn 

It doesn't always hold true, but the exceptions seem to prove the rule I've found Bob. 

3, 3, 8:

[Gnasher]

I got called Carweazle once by some kids. 

[Get Marwood & I]

Just now, Gnasher said:

I got called Carweazle once by some kids. 

I hope you thanked them?

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

It doesn't always hold true, but the exceptions seem to prove the rule I've found Bob. 

I've always favoured the region theory. like Dude, but this does make more sense. When DC took over T&P  mid  60's the numbering of course disappeared.

[Get Marwood & I]

1, 9, 9, 9, 9...

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I hope you thanked them?

I did. 

[Gnasher]

4 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

1, 9, 9, 9, 9...

There's always one, isn't there tch! 

[01TheDude]

Let me amend my theory.

Based on what you were just saying, I can think of something needed from the distributor side of things-- auditing/accounting. By stamping an entire shipment with the same batch number, the items they have in house that have not yet gone out to the points of sale are easily identifiable as a group. What they might have found is that 9 numbers were plenty to handle the work flow involved. So by the time they have completed accounted for and reconciled all the books from shipment 1, other processes were moving on and using stamp 2 or 3 etc as the shipments dictated. Hand stamping these would be tedious but essential to getting the work done from receiving to final sale.

Shipment 1 comes in -- immediately they stamp all copies with a 1/9d stamp (or whatever stamp they picked to start with (don't get confused that it had to be sensible or sequential-- or that it didn't have even more meaning, like a particular ship itself). So that batch is processed and ready for inventory, distribution, auditing and whatever other means to control processes. I may be overthinking this part but I've seen similar levels of checks and balances -- which an auditor will require for even the most simple processes. So it gets that "1 9d" stamp and moves down the line.Meanwhile-- a new shipment comes in. The people who stamp and process the incoming stuff start placing "2 9d"'s on those --- and so on.

Why not need 12 numbers? Because this is shipment based and the process does not require as many numbers to distinguish the books because by the time they circle back to #1, those previous books are long since at the stores. The lack of the full set of 12  or more digits almost is a tell of the non-month based process involved.

thoughts?

[01TheDude]

oh-- and for the handful of ones NOT using the exact same batch number-- imagine that some shipments had some US returns that spread across longer time lines and came on DIFFERENT shipments, So the majority are stamped with one and here you have this oddball lesser amount of a different number.

[Get Marwood & I]

45 minutes ago, 01TheDude said:

thoughts?

All sounds quite plausible Dude and it's as good a theory as any at the moment. Let's see if anyone reading can come up with another. 

[Glassman10]

I did go look at about 700 different stamp sets and every one of them was 1-9.  Like some strange pregnancy  Think about how a rotating inkable stamp set gets made. Bureaucrats hate  hobgoblins in their worlds of consistency.  I have yet to find one that goes beyond 9. 

[Get Marwood & I]

9 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

I did go look at about 700 different stamp sets and every one of them was 1-9.  Like some strange pregnancy  Think about how a rotating inkable stamp set gets made. Bureaucrats hate  hobgoblins in their worlds of consistency.  I have yet to find one that goes beyond 9. 

You won't Pete, trust me. 

[Glassman10]

16 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

All sounds quite plausible Dude and it's as good a theory as any at the moment. Let's see if anyone reading can come up with another. 

or some simply got missed and the person stamping, not receiving a salary in the seven figure range yet still not wanting grief from management just grabbed a stamp and started stamping. 

[Get Marwood & I]

2 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

or some simply got missed and the person stamping, not receiving a salary in the seven figure range yet still not wanting grief from management just grabbed a stamp and started stamping. 

[Gnasher]

[Kevin.J]

I have said this many years ago in another Pence thread.

When I was a kid (70s) I worked as a paperboy in a newsagents, this shop didnt sell a lot of US comics but all mags etc that came in were wrapped in large bundles, some of these they had to open and price them with a gun, the gun was an attraction and as kids we wanted to do it and the staff played on that and let us do it ( saves them a job I suppose ) on a Wednesday evening, there would only be 1 member of staff and we would go back to the shop after delivery, if there wasnt many customers, she used to say, watch the shop and shout if any customers, then go in the back to watch Happy Days, that was happy days for us too and we would mess about and eat as many sweets as we liked  

Anyhoo, I think that the stores stamped the comics, not the distributors, they certainly had a stamp that had interchangeable parts and an ink pad, I think the price gun took over from it but I do remember it as we stamped our hands, forehead etc

What the top number means I have no idea or whether the stamper was supplied by the distribution company which could be, again I remember staff stamping huge piles of stuff, this was my local shop and I went everyday even before I worked for them.

I honestly cant see distributors opening every batch of comics that shipped in to stamp them, send them to the shops to do that during downtime would be the way, that is my memory of it anyway ( too late for comic price stamps but based on what I remember)

I guess we will never know and the few of us that care will never change what people choose to believe