The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Albert Tatlock]

1 minute ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Colindale has a library of periodicals, newspapers, etc going back a long way.

Sorry, info out of date.

British Library now housed at Boston Spa near Wetherby.

Mr Google will assist.

[Get Marwood & I]

1 minute ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Colindale has a library of periodicals, newspapers, etc going back a long way.

George V's collection of bound volumes of football programmes found its way there.

Hmm, not too far from me...

1 minute ago, Albert Tatlock said:

A few pages earlier, you uploaded a scan of Detective 274 with a number 9 stamp, I reckon Batman 127 with a 9 stamp is one delayed on its journey.

Yes, it's on the table. You'd expect a reasonable variance in same publisher cover dates within the stamp numbers I would imagine given the amount of newsagents and stages involved. 

[Albert Tatlock]

In July 1959 (real time), T & P were stamping first magazine arrivals with a number 1. No comics had yet arrived, maybe the Charltons were just about to.

By January 1960 (real time, 6 months later), the stamp had advanced 6 places to 7, and was applied to the recently arrived October 1959 cover dated DCs.

The bimonthly Pat Boone arrived in December 1959, so received a number 6 stamp. Presumably any other bimonthly DCs (eg Showcase 22) would also have been stamped with a 6, but I have seen it mentioned that only a very few, if any of that item arrived. Can we find any October 1959 cover dated bimonthlies stamped 6? If so, they would share with Pat Boone the status of earliest officially distributed T & P DCs to be available in Britain.

[Get Marwood & I]

25 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

In July 1959 (real time), T & P were stamping first magazine arrivals with a number 1. No comics had yet arrived, maybe the Charltons were just about to.

By January 1960 (real time, 6 months later), the stamp had advanced 6 places to 7, and was applied to the recently arrived October 1959 cover dated DCs.

Can you check that Albert - every DC I have in the files has been added to my table below.

I only have one October book:

• Batman #127 (Cover Date October 1959) - a 9

And two bi-monthlies which cross October:

• Flash #109 (Indicia Date October / November 1959) - a 9
• Pat Boone #1 (Indicia September / October) - a 6

[Albert Tatlock]

21 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Can you check that Albert - every DC I have in the files has been added to my table below.

Will do, but it will take a while

[Get Marwood & I]

11 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Will do, but it will take a while

Yep. I think we're on the same page sequence-wise Albert - there may be more to discuss about which are the likely months sitting above the first 1-9 wave though. It may not be something we can prove definitively of course, but we can make a good fist of estimating it I think based on all the circumstantial evidence and peoples individual recollections.

Let's use this table as the starting point for now maybe - the examples are factual, as are the stamp numbers. The unknown is the calendar months that sit above them - stamp 2 may be June 59 or it may need shunting forward. Let's see what happens - I'll keep gathering more examples - the more the better, to prove any patterns.

[Albert Tatlock]

5 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Let's use this table as the starting point for now maybe

I would suggest moving them all back by 1 month, making stamp 1 first time around April 1959 and stamp 1 second time around January 1960. I have a Flash 110, cover date January, with a number 1.

Also Mystery in Space 56 (Dec) with a 9, same as yours.

6 would then correspond to September, fitting with Pat Boone being Sept-Oct.

All of your entries above for January 1960 are cover dated 1959. It would fit better to move them all back 1 month, I think.

[Albert Tatlock]

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Let's use this table as the starting point for now maybe

How about this, which applies to DC only, not Charlton or anything else:

REAL TIME                 DC COVER DATE        T & P STAMP NUMBER

JULY 1959                         mags only                                 1

AUG 1959                          mags only                                 2

SEPT 1959                        mags only                                 3

OCT 1959                          mags only                                 4

NOV 1959                         mags only                                  5

DEC 1959                         mags only                                  6

JAN 1960                           OCT 1959                                 7

FEB 1960                           NOV 1959                                 8

MAR 1960                          DEC 1959                                 9

APR 1960                          JAN 1960                                   1

MAY 1960                          FEB 1960                                  2

JUNE 1960                        MAR 1960                                  3

JULY 1960                         APR 1960                                  4

AUG 1960                          MAY 1960                                 5/6

SEPT 1960                        JUNE 1960                                7

OCT 1960                         JULY 1960                                  8

NOV 1960                         AUG 1960                                   9

DEC 1960                          SEPT 1960                                 1

The bimonthlies would have a stamp number lower by 1, and because of the US publishing schedule, which meant that one cover date was split across 2 shipments, some titles will be 1 higher or lower than expected.

 

[Albert Tatlock]

4 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

4 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Colindale has a library of periodicals, newspapers, etc going back a long way.

George V's collection of bound volumes of football programmes found its way there.

Hmm, not too far from me...

Periodicals can now be ordered into any Reading Room at St Pancras,

[Get Marwood & I]

50 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

How about this, which applies to DC only, not Charlton or anything else:

REAL TIME                 DC COVER DATE        T & P STAMP NUMBER

JULY 1959                         mags only                                 1

AUG 1959                          mags only                                 2

SEPT 1959                        mags only                                 3

OCT 1959                          mags only                                 4

NOV 1959                         mags only                                  5

DEC 1959                         mags only                                  6

JAN 1960                           OCT 1959                                 7

FEB 1960                           NOV 1959                                 8

MAR 1960                          DEC 1959                                 9

APR 1960                          JAN 1960                                   1

MAY 1960                          FEB 1960                                  2

JUNE 1960                        MAR 1960                                  3

JULY 1960                         APR 1960                                  4

AUG 1960                          MAY 1960                                 5/6

SEPT 1960                        JUNE 1960                                7

OCT 1960                         JULY 1960                                  8

NOV 1960                         AUG 1960                                   9

DEC 1960                          SEPT 1960                                 1

The bimonthlies would have a stamp number lower by 1, and because of the US publishing schedule, which meant that one cover date was split across 2 shipments, some titles will be 1 higher or lower than expected.

I've created a table with your dates Albert and only showing the DC examples I have in my files:

Assuming I've transposed correctly:

• The magazines only #6 doesn't work as I have two books populated there - Pat Boone #2 (of which I have 3 examples now) and GI Combat #78. I'm wondering if the GI is a rogue?
• No #7 examples at all yet
• The #8's work OK - of the five books with an 8 stamp, one is November, 2 are Nov/Dec and 2 are one month later Decembers
• Similar pattern with the #9's - a mix of November and December cover dates, but two Octobers as earlier noted
• The second use #1 is starting to look a bit off - none of them are January cover dates - a mix of Nov/Decs so far

I haven't populated beyond that yet. What do you think? A one or two month variance seems reasonable especially seeing as we don't know how long the US to UK shipping time was other than the anecdotal 3 months. 

The sticking point of course is the Charltons which don't fit the picture at all when added. Could the Charltons have come over from the second #2 in 1960 do you think? They would be massively in arrears cover date-wise so to speak of course. But then their numbering suggests a sequence - surely if they were over a year old they would come over together, not staggered, which brings us back to them arriving from the 1959 #2 point. 

Hmmm.

 

[OtherEric]

Just wanted to chime in here:  I don't have very much to add to this discussion, but I am following it with rapt fascination.  Please don't think others aren't enjoying this even if we're not able to contribute!

[Get Marwood & I]

1 minute ago, OtherEric said:

Just wanted to chime in here:  I don't have very much to add to this discussion, but I am following it with rapt fascination.  Please don't think others aren't enjoying this even if we're not able to contribute!

It's quite enthralling isn't it, trying to work out a pattern that stands up to scrutiny. I've got to go now though - Strictly's on 

[Get Marwood & I]

The more examples I add, the more the cover dates against each number widen.

The #9 stamp has increased to take in examples covering October 1959 through to January 1960:

I think the sequential pattern is holding, with the stamp numbers still almost certainly correlating with sequential arrival dates, but the mix of each delivery crosses 4 months as it gets going. Again, not really a surprise perhaps when you consider all the elements of the end to end process behind it but I don't think we can really say that any given stamp number will correlate directly with a single month cover date...

 

[Albert Tatlock]

I think it will settle down as we push on into 1960 and 1961, and these are just teething troubles.

Remember that the USA is a vast landmass, so the scope for all the returns arriving on schedule is limited, so there will always be anomalies.

Who in the warehouse would have been bothered to check that all the cover dates in a shipment to Europe matched? Near enough would have been good enough.

[Get Marwood & I]

6 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

I think it will settle down as we push on into 1960 and 1961, and these are just teething troubles.

Remember that the USA is a vast landmass, so the scope for all the returns arriving on schedule is limited, so there will always be anomalies.

Who in the warehouse would have been bothered to check that all the cover dates in a shipment to Europe matched? Near enough would have been good enough.

...which is why it may not settle down - maybe we wont get to a cover month v stamp uniformity position given the scale of the operation Albert. A couple of months either way would seem more likely but we'll see. It will take some time to work through 1960 and beyond - I started this thread to focus on the 1959 starting point so haven't gathered much beyond the middle of 1960.

See you in a while I suppose! 

[Albert Tatlock]

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

wont get to a cover month v stamp uniformity position

Quite correct. There will never be a 1 to 1 correlation between the observations under consideration, but there will a close enough fit to draw a general conclusion, that the number stamp progressed in step with the dates of the comics found in the content of successive shipments. 

[Get Marwood & I]

7 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Quite correct. There will never be a 1 to 1 correlation between the observations under consideration, but there will a close enough fit to draw a general conclusion, that the number stamp progressed in step with the dates of the comics found in the content of successive shipments. 

Indeed. I think we're already there Albert, thanks to your work. More examples for later years won't hurt though. It's something to do isn't it! 

[Garystar]

I’ve drawn up a template to populate for Marvels. Thought I’d start with the stamped issues I have, first impression is that a very large proportion are illegible especially the early ones with the number in black half circle. I have six early avengers stamped - only one I can read number. If someone was hoping to do some administrative task based on the numbers it wouldn’t be easy. 
I’ll let you know when it’s populated enough to make some conclusions/assumptions. 

Second impression - why couldn't Popular Book Centre stamp books just once? Mine, including X-Men #1, all have at least three stamps and sometimes four.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Garystar

[Garystar]

Is this one of yours Marwood? Unstamped cents issue so someone appears to have drawn a T&P stamp on it.

[Kevin.J]

Looked at my comics today here is a small DC sample to get some more data on the stamp numbers, I hope it helps and I can go further if required, just let me know numbers and I will look to see if I have pence or cents

A few anomalies but, I think the Alberts theory stands up and may.....or may not settle down later

Action comics - 260 =1, 261 =2, 262 =3, 263 =4

Adventure Comics - 267=8, 268=9, 270=3, 271=4

Batman - 231=5, 233=8, 234=9

Detective - 274=8, 275=1

Strange Adventure - 110=9, 111=9, 112=1

Worlds Finest - 107=4, 108=3, 109=5, 111=8