The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Albert Tatlock]

8 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

lone Batman 127 and Boone #1 Octobers were just late

I think Batman 127 was circulating from the off.

Maybe not Pat Boone. I never saw it until about 1966 when I picked up a triangular 6d stamped copy locally. Possibly Pat Boone, not being a top selling title was only sent, and in small quantities, in 1960 or later.

[Get Marwood & I]

9 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

I got my Superman 132 in 1967 from an American visitor whose father worked in Manchester for a couple of years. He had picked it up second hand in Brooklyn so it would not have been stamped.

Given the easy availability of Superman 133, I do not believe that 132 was shipped with the first batch.

Of course, that would not prevent late returns being sent later, though, but if there are no stamped copies at all, that is highly suggestive.

I agree.

I think cover dates in isolation are a red herring in this exercise. If we want to form a meaningful list of the first books to be distributed in the UK perhaps we need to be guided by cover stamps principally (our 8's and 9's) backed by cover dates that are in the right ball-park to have them (and not obvious date outliers). 

1 minute ago, Albert Tatlock said:

I think Batman 127 was circulating from the off.

Maybe not Pat Boone. I never saw it until about 1966 when I picked up a triangular 6d stamped copy locally. Possibly Pat Boone, not being a top selling title was only sent, and in small quantities, in 1960 or later.

Yes, October Batman made the first cut as he has a first cycle 9 stamp to back the recollections of those collectors experiences of the time. Boone October is out as he has a 6 stamp and, therefore, likely came over in a subsequent cycle shipment.

We're getting there Albert...

[Albert Tatlock]

23 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

So maybe Adventure #265 and Superboy #76 are out there

I got Superboy 76 and 77 at the same time, in about 1962/3 from the son of the local barber. Probably he had bought them from a local newsagent, we will just have to wait and see if a stamped 76 eventually surfaces. I know that there were others picked up by other collectors not long afterwards. My present one is US sourced, I upgraded many years ago.

[Albert Tatlock]

I've asked Superman to check on this for us, he's on his laptop right now.................

Edited October 25, 2020 by Albert Tatlock
add 1 word

[Get Marwood & I]

2 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Quote

Is it possible to check USA newsstand distribution dates for the October issues? Possibly only those latest in the supply chain were shipped to the UK.

Flash 108 was dated September, so would not have made it in any case.

It is, using Mike's Comic Newsstand's 'on sale dates' but it's a time consuming exercise and, whilst it has worked for me in other areas (see DC UKPV thread!), I wonder how helpful it would be here given the likely wide variance in timings of any fledgling US returns process. I may have a go anyway though Albert 

Here's a sample of October books from Mike's Comic Newsstand, in 'on sale' date order:

• Superman #132 - 6 August 1959 - no stamped copy as yet
• Challengers #10 - 18 August 1959 - no stamped copy as yet
• The Flash #109 - 20 August 1959 - three 9 stamped examples
• Superboy #76 - 20 August 1959 - no stamped copy as yet
• Batman #127 - 25 August 1959 - two 9 stamped examples
• Brave & The Bold #26 - 25 August 1959 - one 6 stamped example
• Detective Comics #272 - 25 August 1959  - no stamped copy as yet
• Action Comics #257 - 27 August 1959 - no stamped copy as yet

It doesn't help much does it 

[Albert Tatlock]

11 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

It doesn't help much does it

It does identify Superman 132 as the one least likely to make first shipment, though.

[Get Marwood & I]

5 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

It does identify Superman 132 as the one least likely to make first shipment, though.

That it do. 

 

[Albert Tatlock]

Hail Hydra!

Or should that be Hail T & P?

Their tentacles extended far and wide, according to the first scan attached, which shows that they had another address in London from which they published the UK version of MAD magazine.

There is also, besides the Oadby address, another in Thurmaston, a suburb of Leicester.

Today Oadby, tomorrow the world!

Second scan is of a regular ad in the early MAD offering back issues, which enabled me to complete my collection apart from numbers 2 and 5, which I had to source from other quarters.

Third scan is from MAD # 46, where they, amazingly, offer to buy back the back issues they have spent the previous couple of years begging readers to take off their hands.

Anyone know why?

Coming soon, another rant about the triangular sale price stamps, which I hope to persuade even the sceptics were a T & P only feature.

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Albert Tatlock
add 5 words

[Get Marwood & I]

11 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Anyone know why?

Because they were MAD.

11 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Coming soon, another rant about the triangular sale price stamps, which I hope to persuade even the sceptics were a T & P only feature.

Goody. I like stamp rants Albert. Let's be having it then. 

[Kevin.J]

19 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Here's an example of what I mean.

On the CBPG UK regarding Superman #132 we have two references:

The first is the inclusion in the list of First Distribution comics - note no picture, which is odd given the presence of the other mainstays (Flash, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern):

 

The second reference is here, mentioning Batman #127 and Superman #132 as having small quantities:

 

I've seen quite a few stamped Batman #127's in my online searches down the years, but not one Superman #132.

There are 6 Superman 132's on eBay UK at present, of which one even states it's the first UK distributed book:

But note it's not a stamped copy. Nor are any of the others.

All the main UK online dealers have no copies or copies without stamps. I've carried a list of the alleged 'first UK distributed' DCs with me to fairs for some years now and have never seen one in the wild. So it makes you wonder if this issue did actually ever come over doesn't it? Maybe Duncan added it to the list because he reasoned that if Batman #127 was present....

Now I've been proven wrong many times and I'm sure I will be again, but if a copy does show - and it probably will now - what's the betting that it has a number 8 or 9?

@Kevin.J - have you gone through your collection yet? Find us one mate 

 

I said I didnt have a lot of energy and could pull a few titles, not realising at the time you wanted 47 titles 

I havent been well enough to do it but I did set my missus a task to pull 4 issues from around Oct 59 from all titles, she knows absolutely nothing at all about comics btw 

Then I seen your summary and thought you were done and I had been too slow, so told her to stop

This is where things stand, I have just peeped in a snapped this pic, I didnt look at the books yet, she wont be back until Wednesday, you want her to continue ? or just go with what I have so far.

I will have to put all these away.

I trust her to pull it out, but I dont trust her to push it in 

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

16 minutes ago, Kevin.J said:

I said I didnt have a lot of energy and could pull a few titles, not realising at the time you wanted 47 titles 

I havent been well enough to do it but I did set my missus a task to pull 4 issues from around Oct 59 from all titles, she knows absolutely nothing at all about comics btw 

Then I seen your summary and thought you were done and I had been too slow, so told her to stop

This is where things stand, I have just peeped in a snapped this pic, I didnt look at the books yet, she wont be back until Wednesday, you want her to continue ? or just go with what I have so far.

That'll do Kevin, don't go mad mate. Any book from the time with a stamp will be cool to see, especially if it predates anything we've captured so far. Post what you've got, in your own time, and I'll tie them in to what we've done so far 

16 minutes ago, Kevin.J said:

I will have to put all these away.

I trust her to pull it out, but I dont trust her to push it in 

16 minutes ago, Kevin.J said:

I've got the magnifying glass on that Supes 132 and....

[Albert Tatlock]

4 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I've got the magnifying glass on that Supes 132 and..

The suspense is killing me, my nails are bitten right down........................

[Get Marwood & I]

37 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

The suspense is killing me, my nails are bitten right down........................

Can't bloody see it can I. 

We'll have to wait for Kevin's trouble and strife to get moving. 

Be funny if it had a Miller stamp though, wouldn't it 

[Albert Tatlock]

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

We'll have to wait

Starting on me toenails!

[Get Marwood & I]

51 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Starting on me toenails!

Here's something to keep you occupied Albert, if you can zoom in and see the detail (click to enlarge):

 

I happened to have quite a few stamped examples of Unknown Worlds in the files which extended beyond 1961. So I plotted the examples that I had between issues 1-30 in line with each stamp cycle. The purpose of the exercise was to see whether each stamp numbered shipment would follow actual calendar months - one shipment, one stamp per month.

Unknown Worlds #1 is an August 1960 cover dated book with an 8 stamp. That places it at the end of the second 1-9 stamp cycle, i.e. the second use of the 8 stamp. If, for the sake of illustration, we say the first ever shipment went on sale in the UK in January 1960, then 54 stamps later we would arrive at calendar date June 1964 if we assume every calendar month had a separate sequential stamp. That 54th calendar month - June 1964 - would have a 7 stamp and the issue of Unknown Worlds that slots in is issue 29, cover dated February 1964.

So, issue 1 and 29 plot as follows:

• Issue #1 - Cover Date August 1960 went on sale in October 1960 - a 3 month sequence (August - September - October)
• Issue #29 - Cover Date February 1964 went on sale in June 1964 - a 5 month sequence (February - March - April - May - June)

What this possibly indicates is that there likely wasn't an exact match of stamp numbers to calendar months otherwise the sequence gap would have stayed the same. Alternatively, the sequence gap could be more similar than at first appears if, say, the beginning / end of the months were an element. Does that make sense?

Anyway, it does seem to show broadly that each stamp more or less was plonked down a month after the last one doesn't it. Monthly shipments in line with monthly comics.

Doesn't it?

My head hurts.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 10/25/2020 at 9:09 AM, Garystar said:

When Marvel enter the fray of stamping in mid 60s the linear progression of numbers seems to be lost although there are some signs, and you do see the same number repeating across titles for a given month. By the latter 60s Marvels are virtually all number 3, then all T&P (no number). Is this Marvel only or do other companies follow same pattern?

I’ll post more and send Marwood spreadsheet when I’ve populated a few more titles. 
 

How you getting on Gary? If Albert doesn't get his fix soon he'll eat his cap. And Kevin's wife is out of the picture until Wednesday. No pressure, but it's on you if the cap goes 

[Mr Thorpe]

32 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Here's something to keep you occupied Albert, if you can zoom in and see the detail (click to enlarge):

 

I happened to have quite a few stamped examples of Unknown Worlds in the files which extended beyond 1961. So I plotted the examples that I had between issues 1-30 in line with each stamp cycle. The purpose of the exercise was to see whether each stamp numbered shipment would follow actual calendar months - one shipment, one stamp per month.

Unknown Worlds #1 is an August 1960 cover dated book with an 8 stamp. That places it at the end of the second 1-9 stamp cycle, i.e. the second use of the 8 stamp. If, for the sake of illustration, we say the first ever shipment went on sale in the UK in January 1960, then 54 stamps later we would arrive at calendar date June 1964 if we assume every calendar month had a separate sequential stamp. That 54th calendar month - June 1964 - would have a 7 stamp and the issue of Unknown Worlds that slots in is issue 29, cover dated February 1964.

So, issue 1 and 29 plot as follows:

• Issue #1 - Cover Date August 1960 went on sale in October 1960 - a 3 month sequence (August - September - October)
• Issue #29 - Cover Date February 1964 went on sale in June 1964 - a 5 month sequence (February - March - April - May - June)

What this possibly indicates is that there likely wasn't an exact match of stamp numbers to calendar months otherwise the sequence gap would have stayed the same. Alternatively, the sequence gap could be more similar than at first appears if, say, the beginning / end of the months were an element. Does that make sense?

Anyway, it does seem to show broadly that each stamp more or less was plonked down a month after the last one doesn't it. Monthly shipments in line with monthly comics.

Doesn't it?

My head hurts.

 

Someone's paying attention and spotted the deliberate error! Unknown Worlds wasn't monthly. I think it was 8 times a year, so #56 was actually published in 1967.

Reference here

http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/series.php?seriesid=16248

[Garystar]

18 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

How you getting on Gary? If Albert doesn't get his fix soon he'll eat his cap. And Kevin's wife is out of the picture until Wednesday. No pressure, but it's on you if the cap goes 

I’ve had a sweep of most Marvel main titles, couple to go, I’ll send you spreadsheet as is in next day or two, quite a few issues I haven’t found as yet but I think there’s enough to draw some conclusions;  Marvel’s default was UKPV, stamps were used to fill gaps, some evidence of batch stamping but batches weren’t linear, stamp numbers were mostly superfluous. When you see it you may see some patterns I can’t. Be in touch soon.  

[Get Marwood & I]

49 minutes ago, Garystar said:

I’ve had a sweep of most Marvel main titles, couple to go, I’ll send you spreadsheet as is in next day or two, quite a few issues I haven’t found as yet but I think there’s enough to draw some conclusions;  Marvel’s default was UKPV, stamps were used to fill gaps, some evidence of batch stamping but batches weren’t linear, stamp numbers were mostly superfluous. When you see it you may see some patterns I can’t. Be in touch soon.  

Good man!

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, Mr Thorpe said:

Someone's paying attention and spotted the deliberate error! Unknown Worlds wasn't monthly. I think it was 8 times a year, so #56 was actually published in 1967.

Reference here

http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/series.php?seriesid=16248

I know, but #56 isn't the issue I'm focussed on Mr T - I stopped at #29.  I just wanted to plot a series of stamp numbered books sequentially for the same title to see if their start (number 1) and end (number 29) cover dates would tally with sequential calendar months - and 1-29 of Unknown Worlds seem to, give or take a few months. The fact that they aren't a monthly title isn't relevant to the exercise - the exercise was to try to show that each use of a stamp was roughly separated by a calendar month. It's hard to put into words, but I think what I've presented does stack up. Probably!

To make sure we're on the same page as to how I've plotted the books, if you look at the sixth cycle row you'll see #20 and #22 listed in the '4' stamp column. This is because I have examples of both books with a 4 stamp on them (click to enlarge):

The sixth cycle is the most likely use of a '4' stamp on a book of that cover date and it is broadly in sequence with the surrounding issues.

 

So the gap between the #1 '8' stamp of calendar month October 1960 and the #29 '7' stamp of calendar month June 1964 is illustrated as:

• 45 calendar months / 45 sequential stamp uses inclusive

And the difference between the cover dates vs the stamp number dates when applied to that illustration is:

• Issue #1 - Cover Date August 1960 went on sale in October 1960 - a 3 month sequence (August - September - October)
• Issue #29 - Cover Date February 1964 went on sale in June 1964 - a 5 month sequence (February - March - April - May - June)

So it shows, I hope, that the stamps were applied more or less monthly which was the purpose of the experiment. 

I think.