The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Get Marwood & I]

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

It will only be shot down in flames if someone can find a triangle stamp on an item which has NOT passed through the hands of Thorpe & Porter.

Until then, just leave me raving on the sidelines, I have other T & P related fish to fry, but it may take a while to follow up all the threads.

Jesting aside, I think it's highly likely that T&P had something to do with it Albert.

As you say, the stamps are on so many of the periodicals they handled aren't they. Here's another:

I'll keep em peeled during my various searches - see how many we can gather.

[Get Marwood & I]

Just me today is it?

Here's an updated table which shows the 47 DC titles that I captured which cross the September/October/November 1959 dates (click to enlarge):

As you will see I've only captured those 47 applicable titles for now - ones like Justice League which start later in 1960 are not present although I may add them later.

The reason for that is that I want to use this table as the starting point for capturing the earliest known DC issues with first cycle 8 and 9 stamps, in theory, our first ever official UK shipments (if we assume the 6's are second wave of course).

So if anyone reading in the UK who has early DC issues could check their collections and let me know if any earlier examples exist (I'll need a picture) - that would be great. We're looking for Batman 126, Detective 273, Wonder Woman 109 etc. And titles like House of Secrets seem to have started coming over late - surely there is an earlier example of a stamped copy than the August 1960 cover dated #35?

If the UK fairs ever get going again, I'll be checking the boxes to this list as I used to in the past to a similar one but, I have to say, with considerably less focus than I would now, having gone into so much more depth now on the subject in this thread.

Virus begone!

[Kevin.J]

[Get Marwood & I]

11 minutes ago, Kevin.J said:

There we go - cheers Kevin! There's so few examples of them online compared to other titles. Keep digging buddy (when you can) 

[Mr Thorpe]

Still here and still looking!

[Kevin.J]

2 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

There we go - cheers Kevin! There's so few examples of them online compared to other titles. Keep digging buddy (when you can) 

I just seen your table and looked at a title that my missus didnt pull. 

I have House of Mystery & House of Secrets from #1 but moved all completed numbers to boxes years ago to just leave the gap issues in my cabinets as easier to control and more space.

I am complete with Rex from #1 but not sure if they go as late as 1959.

Romance stuff is altogether in a few long boxes so cant even look at those without lots of effort,

Bilko I have from #1 but scattered and I think from the US maybe 10 or so years ago, so doubtful of stamps.

If I have any of the cartoon books they will be in my duplicate stuff as I dont list or collect them

 

[Get Marwood & I]

2 hours ago, Mr Thorpe said:

Still here and still looking!

Good one, a previous title with no examples - thanks Mr T 

Being a March 1960, it stands out in cycle 1:

 

So I think it more likely to be a late cycle 2:

Do you agree? It has a few friends there as you can see.

[Get Marwood & I]

10 minutes ago, Kevin.J said:

I just seen your table and looked at a title that my missus didnt pull. 

I have House of Mystery & House of Secrets from #1 but moved all completed numbers to boxes years ago to just leave the gap issues in my cabinets as easier to control and more space.

I am complete with Rex from #1 but not sure if they go as late as 1959.

The final issue of Rex, #46, jus might creep in being a Sep/Oct 1959 book - unlikely, but Pat Boone made it (albeit as a likely late cycle 2)

10 minutes ago, Kevin.J said:

Romance stuff is altogether in a few long boxes so cant even look at those without lots of effort,

Bilko I have from #1 but scattered and I think from the US maybe 10 or so years ago, so doubtful of stamps.

If I have any of the cartoon books they will be in my duplicate stuff as I dont list or collect them

No worries Kevin. I'm aching to get to the next fair. Fingers crossed for December 

[Get Marwood & I]

Updated after Falling in Love with the House of Mystery:

[Get Marwood & I]

I've seen this 6d stamp a few times - here are two Charltons, one that I owned and one from online:

It's not the usual Miller stamp but it makes sense being on cents priced copies. 

Until now that is...

[Kevin.J]

44 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

The final issue of Rex, #46, jus might creep in being a Sep/Oct 1959 book - unlikely, but Pat Boone made it (albeit as a likely late cycle 2)

No worries Kevin. I'm aching to get to the next fair. Fingers crossed for December 

I found some Rex but they are slabs, no idea where the raws are buried, I dont have any Pat Boone 

You couldn't pay me to go to a fair atm, usually cramped and stifling at the best of times with sweaty, snotty, mouth breathing geeks, imagine that with masks and social distancing, no thanks

Comic collectors are terrible 

 

[Mr Thorpe]

A few more ...

That Pat Boone #2 has a bonus weirdo 10d stamp on it!

[Kevin.J]

Just seeing Bilko and Colonel Hall on that cover makes me wanna grab the DVDs out and watch one of the greatest comedies of all time 

[Garystar]

Albert and Marwood got me curious as to patterns in the numbering so I’ve mapped Marvel T&P stamps from first monthly occurrence, November 1964, to last possible date October 1971. Observations;

• Pre-printed UKPV were the method of choice for pricing Marvels, the earliest known distributed marvel comic, Journey Into Mystery #58 dated May 1960, is pre-printed 9d and all subsequent distributed Marvels are also UKPV for the next few years.

• Pre-printed UKPV ceased later end of 1964. Some titles had their last UKPV in September 1964, whilst others had last UKPV in October or November 1964.

• T&P stamps do appear on a few Marvels prior to September 1964 but I have not found any prior to January 1964 (aside from annuals). These are so few and far between I am unable to determine any pattern.

• Depending on when their last UKPV was, there was a nine or ten month period when no UKPV Marvels were printed. During this period Oct/Nov/Dec 1964 - Jul/Aug 1965 all Marvels distributed in UK were T&P stamped. I can see no discernable pattern other than a lot of 6’s in early few months, followed by a lot of 2’s followed by a lot of 4’s. e.g Strange Tales from December 1964 = 6,6,8,8,2,3,4,4,2. The stamping is not random as most issues have the same number and there is some similarity across titles each month, Spider-man for the same period = 6,not found,8,8,2,3,4,4,4. However for example Spider-man #24 May 1965 I have found stamped 1, 2 and 3. The linear progression seen in early DCs does not hold up.

• August/September 1965 UKPV Marvels recommenced until Sep/Oct/Nov 1966 depending on title. I have found very few T&P stamps for this period of UKPV.

• Most titles had a one or two month gap between Oct and Dec 1966. I have found no T&P stamps for this period however this stamp appears quite a lot during this short period and not very often outside it; far too often to be a local or retailer stamp. Could it be that this was merely a SNAFU at printers in USA who forgot to print UKPVs and stamped them instead or perhaps T&P wanting to be incognito?

• UKPVs recommenced Dec 66/Jan 67, however this period of UKPVs was short lived with titles having last UKPV in Oct or Nov 1967. I have found few T&P stamps during this period.

• Marvels began stamping again in Nov or Dec 1967 until March 1969. Stamp numbers in this period again have no discernible pattern. Lots of 4’s – Daredevil 40 to 47 all appear as 4. Spiderman sequence Dec 67 to March 1969 = 9,6,8,9,9,4,4,7,4,4,4,3,4,7,2,4 although some of these do appear with different numbers. Thor 148 (Jan 1968) I have found numbered 3,6,7 and 9 – how about a collecting goal of getting a particular issue with all nine T&P numbers?

• In April 1969 UKPVs restarted yet again however unlike previous periods of UKPVs there is an abundance of stamped copies also. Why is this – were there reduced numbers of UKPVs which meant T&P needed to fill the gap with stamped cents copies, had demand increased to the extent that T&P needed more supply, had World Distributors taken over distribution of UKPVs and T&P stamps were in competition? (I can’t find when World Distributors took over from Thorpe and Porter).

• For around 6 months normal numbering continues albeit in a rather random way, then all stamps become number 3. For one month, August 1970, the stamp becomes “5p/ 1/-“ and thereafter all stamps are T&P – ampersand rather than a number. The last stamp I can find is July 1971. From here on in Marvels are either UKPV or they are non-distributed – no more stamps.

• I found no triangular sale stamps but one full price T&P sticker.

·         

Conclusions/speculations;
•    Marvels were not remainders. They were UKPV from day one of distribution so obviously T&P must have ordered their quota before the comics were even printed.
•    Although there is evidence of batch stamping, various titles having the same number for any given month, there is no evidence that the stamps had any linear pattern. The stamps were purely used for pricing.
•    The numbers on many are illegible supporting theory stamps were purely used for pricing.
•    The primary use of UKPV, lack of linear numbering when stamps were used, absence of sale triangles suggests Marvels were treated differently to other companies.

[Get Marwood & I]

33 minutes ago, Kevin.J said:

I found some Rex but they are slabs, no idea where the raws are buried, I dont have any Pat Boone 

You couldn't pay me to go to a fair atm, usually cramped and stifling at the best of times with sweaty, snotty, mouth breathing geeks, imagine that with masks and social distancing, no thanks

I must dig out my old review of the London Fair - it's in the Marvel UKPV thread I think. The absence of personal hygiene is mentioned, as I recall 

35 minutes ago, Kevin.J said:

Comic collectors are terrible 

I'd be inclined to add 'people in general' to that.

[Get Marwood & I]

17 minutes ago, Mr Thorpe said:

A few more ...

That Pat Boone #2 has a bonus weirdo 10d stamp on it!

Sooper. Doberman's a new title - only 5 titles absent now. Nice weirdy 10 stamp on the Boone. 

[Get Marwood & I]

14 minutes ago, Garystar said:

Albert and Marwood got me curious as to patterns in the numbering so I’ve mapped Marvel T&P stamps from first monthly occurrence, November 1964, to last possible date October 1971. Observations

That's brilliant Gary, thanks. The first reading ties in with my earlier page 3 post which went into much less detail. When I receive your spreadsheet I'll go over it all - probably tomorrow now - and come back with any comments 

[Albert Tatlock]

22 minutes ago, Garystar said:

this stamp appears quite a lot during this short period and not very often outside it;

The oblong 10d stamp appeared on a lot of Marvels at this time. I will try to upload a couple more.

The Marvels of that time were delayed, possible due to a strike at the docks, and when they eventually appeared, about 6 months late, they were distributed not by T & P, but by Gold Star Publications, who were at that time involved more with the importations of magazines. There was a sticker attached to a lot of their comics, and it is possible that some will be found still attached.

There was a big panic among collectors at the time, who believed, thankfully erroneously, that they would have a permanent gap in their holdings.

This period's Marvels were definitely fewer in number than usual, after the dust had settled..

Here is a list of what I remember being delayed:

Astonish # 85 and # 86, Journey Into Mystery # 133 and # 134, Strange Tales # 151 (the only one missing at the time), FF # 56 and #57, Daredevil # 22 (again only 1 skipped issue), Avengers # 33 and #34, X-Men #26, Fantasy Masterpieces # 5, MCIC # 6, Spider-Man #42 and #43.

Suspense # 84 seemed to have got away with it.

When they eventually arrived, I spent a couple of Saturdays cycling far and wide to find as many as I could, and selling them at a premium via ads in Fantasy Advertiser and Exchange & Mart. The FF were the ones most in demand.

[Get Marwood & I]

24 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

41 minutes ago, Garystar said:

Albert and Marwood got me curious as to patterns in the numbering so I’ve mapped Marvel T&P stamps from first monthly occurrence, November 1964, to last possible date October 1971. Observations

That's brilliant Gary, thanks. The first reading ties in with my earlier page 3 post which went into much less detail. When I receive your spreadsheet I'll go over it all - probably tomorrow now - and come back with any comments 

Gary's spreadsheet illustration is great - it really stands out how the stamps begin and end their prevalence around the UKPVs - here's a snapshot:

A quick look at Journey into Mystery on eBay UK shows multiple copies for every issue from #102 - every single one is a stamp free cents / pence until you get to issue 110 when the 10d stamped copies start to appear, duly disappearing from 119.