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The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982)
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5,835 posts in this topic

9 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

The oblong 10d stamp appeared on a lot of Marvels at this time. I will try to upload a couple more.

I've got a few saved too.

9 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

The Marvels of that time were delayed, possible due to a strike at the docks, and when they eventually appeared, about 6 months late, they were distributed not by T & P, but by Gold Star Publications, who were at that time involved more with the importations of magazines. There was a sticker attached to a lot of their comics, and it is possible that some will be found still attached.

Can you tell us more about that Albert please - what books exactly weren't distributed by T&P and how were they identifiable (if at all)?

9 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

There was a big panic among collectors at the time, who believed, thankfully erroneously, that they would have a permanent gap in their holdings.

This period's Marvels were definitely fewer in number than usual, after the dust had settled..

Here is a list of what I remember being delayed:

Astonish # 85 and # 86, Journey Into Mystery # 133 and # 134, Strange Tales # 151 (the only one missing at the time), FF # 56 and #57, Daredevil # 22 (again only 1 skipped issue), Avengers # 33 and #34, X-Men #26, Fantasy Masterpieces # 5, MCIC # 6, Spider-Man #42 and #43.

Suspense # 84 seemed to have got away with it.

When they eventually arrived, I spent a couple of Saturdays cycling far and wide to find as many as I could, and selling them at a premium via ads in Fantasy Advertiser and Exchange & Mart. The FF were the ones most in demand.

Here's how I capture that on my UKPV spreadsheet:

Captureb.thumb.PNG.8e7e62e0f90007069defd10b41f7a12d.PNG

Most titles missed two issues, some one and some made it in full (e.g. bi-monthly Two-Gun Kid).

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1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:
14 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

The oblong 10d stamp appeared on a lot of Marvels at this time. I will try to upload a couple more.

I've got a few saved too.

Here's a Charlie:

10d.thumb.jpg.b39e8f741baee36cdd67790c177bc970.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

10d oblong FF# 56 and #57 attached.

comicff56,57.jpg

Nice. Two more:

1732029045_10dstamp.thumb.jpg.4671eace906fc98d6b4107588b617361.jpg  704790691_s-l1600(2).thumb.jpg.326e8a54620d52afdb74cb2d0e2a049c.jpg

9 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Also, ASM #34 price looks odd - is it the usual one?

comicasm33,34.jpg

Yes, they all look like that. I always thought it looked odd, a bit small. It was the first issue that moved away from the price being under Spidey's head as you know yourself having positioned it next to #33 of course. So it was a bit of an interim, until the got a bit bigger from 35:

33p.thumb.jpg.b6da8178285efa260991e2ba501ffff8.jpg  34p.thumb.jpg.6dffee9076f0c10dbe124298cc0b0004.jpg35p.thumb.jpg.118526a4740abdb36c3f7d45cf4eecc3.jpg

It was the same on the cents:

33.thumb.jpg.f44f225db2d01eb5ab621f068552a90d.jpg 34.thumb.jpg.9667d81b0dda02fc5d6cf2163ec8a430.jpg 35.thumb.jpg.4225d6cb473ba7edb3d4dda73f6b6048.jpg

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40 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Gary's spreadsheet illustration is great - it really stands out how the stamps begin and end their prevalence around the UKPVs - here's a snapshot:

Capture.thumb.PNG.423886f7ae088e79b6a5c961b52b1993.PNG

A quick look at Journey into Mystery on eBay UK shows multiple copies for every issue from #102 - every single one is a stamp free cents / pence until you get to issue 110 when the 10d stamped copies start to appear, duly disappearing from 119.

Great work Gary, my Sgt Fury 11 and Tales to Astonish 62 are both Cents but here are the other two gaps

20.thumb.jpg.c7fc1ab8e3bdd80f71b2e5bec87eb565.jpg

331253915_StrangeTales126.thumb.jpg.3d510a3647ff56acb7e5b568d29ef7af.jpg

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46 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

they eventually appeared, about 6 months late, they were distributed not by T & P, but by Gold Star Publications, who were at that time involved more with the importations of magazines.

Thanks Albert mystery solved. I was aware of the gap and I’ve seen the stamp before but just thought it was a local bookshop or dealer, it wasn’t until I did this exercise I realized the two were connected. 
I’ve heard the dock strike theory but this wouldn’t have stopped them being printed - they’d have had to know three months in advance for that to happen wouldn’t they?

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8 minutes ago, Garystar said:

’ve heard the dock strike theory but this wouldn’t have stopped them being printed - they’d have had to know three months in advance for that to happen wouldn’t they?

I don't think the cargo ships would have been on the water above a month - any extra delay would possibly have had to do with unloading, processing, Customs clearance, etc.

These 10d copies - I remember that just about all of them has a little sticker with 'GOLD STAR PUBLICATIONS' on, but they were not very sticky, and maybe there are none left that have not had the sticker peeled off. I have checked mine, and there is not one sticker left.

If T & P had received them, they would surely have applied their standard stamp. Possibly Gold Star, who were already importing magazines, spotted a gap in the market when they learned of T & P's ill fortune, but it is also possible that T & P, having already paid for the consignment, preferred to collect the insurance rather than take delivery of 6 months outdated comics, leaving the shipment on the open market for whoever was willing to take a gamble, but, of course, that is just speculation. 

The affected issues were cover dated late 1966, but it was the summer of 1967 before they surfaced. Strange Tales # 151 hit the stands at the same time as # 158.

What is puzzling, though, is that DC deliveries were unaffected at the time.

 

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1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

These 10d copies - I remember that just about all of them has a little sticker with 'GOLD STAR PUBLICATIONS' on, but they were not very sticky, and maybe there are none left that have not had the sticker peeled off. I have checked mine, and there is not one sticker left.

It’s great to hear these stories first hand, I’ve been collecting 45 years and never heard of Gold Star’s involvement before. Nor do I recall ever seeing one of the stickered comics, I’ll be on the look out now although it sounds like it may be in vain. Learning all the time. 

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Attached are 2 scans of a page from Frank Dobson's Fantasy Advertiser #9, which first saw the light of day during the period when the late 1966 Marvels were still on the missing list. Hope it is legible, if not I ill redouble my efforts.

They show up in the gaps of what Frank had available at the time.

The third scan is of an ad by lad I knew whose collection of Marvels of the superhero period was almost complete. Note the Astonish # 62. It was on almost everyone's want list, and was, at the time, the most difficult superhero issue to find, trading at a higher price than Hulk # 1. Also, FF # 7 was fetching the same as FF # 1.

If someone has the time and patience, try checking out how many slabbed pence copies there are of FF # 7 and Hulk # 4, because those were extremely thin on the ground at that time.

There were 4 periods of drought for Marvels in the 1960s, always around November time, 1960 (nothing available, pence or cents across the main 4 titles, as referred to in the Marvel UKPV thread), 1962 (shortage of a few titles, although most were unaffected), 1964 (again a shortage, this time across most titles) and 1966 ( a complete absence of most titles, followed by a dramatic reappearance 6 months in arrears).

More on Astonish  # 62 later. It is common enough now, but was extremely lesser-spotted at the time.

magFA1.jpg

magFA2.jpg

magFA3.jpg

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It was frustrating as a kid trying to fill all my gaps and no matter how many shops, marts, dealers or catalogs I looked into, the same issues were always missing :pullhair: I never could understand why.

I dealt mail order with a few people in the US and used to change £s to $s at the travel agents and sent the $s in an envelope, never had a problem and always received the books, I wouldnt trust that these days lol 

 

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Its always a killer seeing the prices of stuff from back in the day in old guides and catalogs, I was greedy for comics and wanted more and more, 10 comics for £1 rather than 1 comic for a £1.

So started with the Bronze age and worked back to Silver age then finally to Golden age, wish I did it the other way around hm

 

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Morning boys :)

Some interesting stuff in those last few posts. Velly nice - I'll digest them later as I've been plotting and can only concentrate on one thing at a time.

Now, I have a question for those of you who were 'around a the time', based on the table Gary sent me for Marvel.

My Marvel UKPV spreadsheet shows the period between October 1964 and July 1965 as having gaps of up to 10 issues for all UKPVs with no examples at all cover dated between the 8 months of December 1964 and July 1965. The titles all weren't printed at the same time of course hence the staggered gaps were some titles got through and others missed the cut off point - here's an extract to illustrate:

78600699_29_10_201.thumb.PNG.9c4ca738641d906a5c37ad8e31493125.PNG

 

If I select some titles from Gary's spreadsheet for the same period we can see clearly that the UKPV gaps are 'replaced' with T&P stamped copies:

1384647744_29_10_202.thumb.PNG.131b72aeeee66504a85ec2f6b091011c.PNG

 

I've updated that table and added two monthly DC titles, to compare them to four of the monthly Marvel ones:

795056898_29_10_203.thumb.PNG.0b97919fe978b9936fc84ba267a7761d.PNG

 

From the sample, for this period, we can see:

  • Where Marvels have UKPVs there are no stamped copies (cents or pence)
  • As soon as the UKPVs stop by cover date, the extant stamped copies start (and vice versa)
  • The stamp numbering for the four Marvel titles has a broad consistency by cover month
  • The stamp numbering for the four Marvels broadly has the expected sequential pattern - 6-6-8-8-2-2-3-4-8 (JIM) for example, starts at six and works up to 8 then moves to the next 1-9 cycle and moves from 2 up to 8 again, confirming the escalating pattern within the 1-9 cycles that we have come to expect for DC at least
  • The two DC titles very clearly follow the sequential escalating pattern within their 1-9 cycles and are not that far off the Marvels numbering

So, here is my (hopefully not stupid) question:

If the UKPV gaps are thought to be the result of shipping strikes, does that mean that the stamped copies which filled those gaps also did not arrive in the UK in that window because of the same strike and, therefore, they all arrived after the shipping strike?

If they did, then why do they follow the same escalating stamp pattern?

I may be missing something obvious, but it looks like the UKPVs stopped, and the stamped copies replaced them. But they couldn't have if the ships weren't sailing, could they?. 

What are your recollections guys? How did the books in the alleged 10 month shipping gap arrive in the UK in your experience? Did they all just turn up one day in bulk at the newsagent? "Oh, there's JIM 110-118, great, I missed those. Horrible stamps on them though"

That seems so unlikely to me?

Could it be that there was a UKPV specific issue and it has nothing to do with ships sailing to and from the US?

@Kevin.J @Garystar @Albert Tatlock @Redshade

 

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8 hours ago, Kevin.J said:

Its always a killer seeing the prices of stuff from back in the day in old guides and catalogs, I was greedy for comics and wanted more and more, 10 comics for £1 rather than 1 comic for a £1.

So started with the Bronze age and worked back to Silver age then finally to Golden age, wish I did it the other way around hm

 

:eek:

129.PNG.35e763808bf666c9d4b914ae525b9fef.PNG

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41 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Morning boys :)

Some interesting stuff in those last few posts. Velly nice - I'll digest them later as I've been plotting and can only concentrate on one thing at a time.

Now, I have a question for those of you who were 'around a the time', based on the table Gary sent me for Marvel.

My Marvel UKPV spreadsheet shows the period between October 1964 and July 1965 as having gaps of up to 10 issues for all UKPVs with no examples at all cover dated between the 8 months of December 1964 and July 1965. The titles all weren't printed at the same time of course hence the staggered gaps were some titles got through and others missed the cut off point - here's an extract to illustrate:

 in the UK in that window because of the same strike and, therefore, they all arrived after the shipping strike?

If they did, then why do they follow the same escalating stamp pattern?

I may be missing something obvious, but it looks like the UKPVs stopped, and the stamped copies replaced them. But they couldn't have if the ships weren't sailing, could they?. 

What are your recollections guys? How did the books in the alleged 10 month shipping gap arrive in the UK in your experience? Did they all just turn up one day in bulk at the newsagent? "Oh, there's JIM 110-118, great, I missed those. Horrible stamps on them though"

That seems so unlikely to me?

Could it be that there was a UKPV specific issue and it has nothing to do with ships sailing to and from the US?

@Kevin.J @Garystar @Albert Tatlock @Redshade

 

Morning Steve.

I've been following this thread and it is all a bit too esoteric for my few remaining brain cells.

I remember only asking the newsagent why there were missing issue numbers and being told that they could not order specific US comics and had to make do with what they were sent.

At the time I had no knowledge of, or interest in, the price stamps' numerical rotation. Sorry.

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16 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

The oblong 10d stamp appeared on a lot of Marvels at this time. I will try to upload a couple more.

The Marvels of that time were delayed, possible due to a strike at the docks, and when they eventually appeared, about 6 months late, they were distributed not by T & P, but by Gold Star Publications, who were at that time involved more with the importations of magazines. There was a sticker attached to a lot of their comics, and it is possible that some will be found still attached.

There was a big panic among collectors at the time, who believed, thankfully erroneously, that they would have a permanent gap in their holdings.

This period's Marvels were definitely fewer in number than usual, after the dust had settled..

Here is a list of what I remember being delayed:

Astonish # 85 and # 86, Journey Into Mystery # 133 and # 134, Strange Tales # 151 (the only one missing at the time), FF # 56 and #57, Daredevil # 22 (again only 1 skipped issue), Avengers # 33 and #34, X-Men #26, Fantasy Masterpieces # 5, MCIC # 6, Spider-Man #42 and #43.

Suspense # 84 seemed to have got away with it.

When they eventually arrived, I spent a couple of Saturdays cycling far and wide to find as many as I could, and selling them at a premium via ads in Fantasy Advertiser and Exchange & Mart. The FF were the ones most in demand.

That's interesting Albert

My UKPV spreadsheet plots the absent UKPVs as follows, with the gaps staggered over a three month window in line with, presumably, printing dates. Some titles got through, others missed the cut:

1987681765_Late66Gap1.thumb.PNG.14a954e69935e6e83bb1827e31fc7fc8.PNG

 

ASM #43 is an interesting example as I have seen several with non-T&P prices stamps - here's one I used to own and one oblong 10d version:

1475778434_43Dec66b.thumb.jpg.3c26112d6bdd25a2db94a3861898b00c.jpg1629115687_43Dec66.thumb.jpg.8d3fa1df5d6900a9d2ce6157fa3939ef.jpg

 

Note that the 10d oblong has sticker residue, although I doubt Gold Start would have placed it over the price! I've never seen a Gold Star sticker myself and you can understand how my research into UKPVs would have brought me into contact with one at some point, so I'm intrigued.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying (taking ASM as an example):

  • Thorpe & Porter distributed the UKPVs up to issue 41 under their exclusive arrangement with Marvel
  • Something happened to stop issues 42 and 43 from being produced as UKPVs and they failed to arrive in the UK in the expected date sequence
  • When they did eventually arrive, late, they were cents copies and stamped by Gold Star Publications
  • From issue 44, UKPVs resumed, presumably under the usual arrangement between Marvel and Thorpe & Porter

Albert, where is this documented and do we know why T&P were happy for someone else to distribute the books that they owned the exclusive distribution rights to in this short window?

Also, if the 10d oblong stamp was Gold Star's, why does this exist, way off the date window at June 67?

29 June 67.jpg

 

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41 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

What are your recollections guys? How did the books in the alleged 10 month shipping gap arrive in the UK in your experience?

Sorry can’t help as I started collecting in 1973 when all marvels were 6p UKPV although as I’ve said before “new” T&P 5p stamped and UKPV 1/- still appeared several years out of date. 
I’m uncomfortable with the dock strike theory - this wouldn’t have stopped issues being printed without long prior notice (as Albert said probably less than 3 months I initially surmised but still Must have been4 to 6 weeks). The only reference to a 1964 dock strike I can find states it started on eve of general election (october 1964) and was “rapidly” settled.  What sort of contract did T&P have with Marvel - I can’t believe they could just turn on and off print runs of thousands?

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