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The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982)
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5,832 posts in this topic

43 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Yes, I spotted that. He seems to be claiming the credit for setting your feet on this long and (very) winding road.

He posted the first image of a Miller marvel indicia, yes. I built on it, somewhat :)

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On 1/23/2021 at 1:10 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

I think that discussion was in my 'First Distribution' thread Stephen.

It's an interesting debate and my own view is that procedures likely varied in different locations. Certainly there are conflicting personal experiences out there so we may never know. I like to find the smoking guns as you know, and found these examples below interesting.

If you look at this copy of Tarzan from 1970 (Top Sellers Ltd, a division of T&P I believe?), you can see an advert inside for what look like US DC copies with one shilling prices: 

113626805_Tarzan5.thumb.jpg.6776ef103e1b91fea32f0b29e5b1d2a0.jpg            275637614_Tarzan5c.thumb.jpg.75b3081ccf6b6825a450824e40cbda50.jpg

1372997739_Tarzan5b.thumb.jpg.6d4be24342d646433689913156124495.jpg

I double (double) checked to make sure no such UKPVs had escaped my attention but the four issues shown are all March 1970 cover dates and T&P one shilling stamped copies exist for all:

406796434_70mar1969.thumb.jpg.6815830016c13e85047cf03d72de0c15.jpg1343079742_183mar1969.thumb.jpg.03581c181207b22a2fb7fcbda0f13e8b.jpg1837186750_186mar1969.thumb.jpg.4af20aef4c95cc833c691b2698cfe77f.jpg246934334_210mar1969.thumb.jpg.0069e671d2a03a33592f60fcc4f6b83d.jpg

The interior advert says these books are "obtainable from all good newsagents".

In other Top Press publications we see similar adverts:

1373693907_s-l1600(2).thumb.jpg.bf979ecf563fc80b6afbdf1f649331e3.jpg

80038089_s-l1600(3).thumb.jpg.980f4f779309be1cdc2546313c574ce3.jpg

1743713655_s-l1600(4).thumb.jpg.e8e7b4a8ab9fefc385ad8da7294a251a.jpg

Many say 'If in difficulty, please contact Thorpe & Porter".

853272554_s-l1600(1).thumb.jpg.e0958449be0d9c59e75871e48964a6be.jpg

So we can see what was intended for c1970 at least. 

Whether we will ever find something for the earlier period I don't know and I'm always mindful that the memory cheats when it comes to recalling events from ones childhood some 50 years ago. 

One thing I find odd about the above is why the Top Sellers books / T&P would advertise the DC US originals when they (T&P) were producing their own UK compendium at the same time, the 'DC Super' books. I've got one of those on order and will post again when it arrives. I've never bought or owned one before so there may be some surprises inside.

403931015_s-l1600(5).jpg.d5a91f1c640fac06c739c459f8682000.jpg

 

The Super DC #4 turned up:

124776113_1969SuperDC4.thumb.jpg.ff57b779192ae1349f4f77b1ad9bfd5e.jpg

 

As I mentioned in the previous post (DC thread) the back covers of these British periodicals are really cool:

19490085_1969SuperDC4BC.thumb.jpg.40542c92e23d717d471290a3045031ad.jpg

The 'mock up', and the reality:

1874350029_1969SuperDC4BC(2).jpg.1ec5a81d5f788cdbd087b6c837989614.jpg 1352281285_1968.11WorldsFinest180.thumb.jpg.155d2be540fcb645f9158d5cb5a7a165.jpg

Nice skin-toned Batsuit there Phwooar!.gif.6339b4c61f159967fdc906be75658eed.gif

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5 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Looks to me like he laid one brick and you constructed the Great Pyramid.

 

1 minute ago, OtherEric said:

You continue to have a distinct gift for understatement.

Aww, thanks boys, sniff :foryou:

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On 1/24/2021 at 1:46 PM, themagicrobot said:

I know it is becoming folklore that UK price variants made up 5% to 10% of total production.

I thought it was closer to 1-2%, at least for all the early SA issues, based on earlier research discussed and/or referenced in this thread..  Or was that with respect to surviving copies.  That would be a big difference.  Either way, really low relatively speaking.  

Edited by Pantodude
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I've just posted this question below in Comics General.

@themagicrobot I know this will interest you (I think you posed this question once in one of my threads?)

16 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Hello :)

Charlton were in the habit of occasionally posting 'Statements of Ownership, Management and Circulation' figures in their titles.

Here is an example from Billy The Kid #112 cover dated April 1975:

1070639851_1975.04BillyTheKid112TP10p.thumb.jpg.1cf7f21fb93551845542e7caa333eb4e.jpg38889294_1975.04BillyTheKid112circulationb.thumb.jpg.bbce7d0b1d722bb5f46edeaffe4baaa7.jpg

If we zoom in...

336069904_1975.04BillyTheKid112circulation.thumb.jpg.c52883a5ac5602aea19597453b9b7002.jpg

...we can see under the column titled "Actual number of copies..." a figure of 221,800 for a single issue.

If I'm reading this right:

  • 221,800 copies printed
  • 2,000 were spoiled leaving 219,800 
  • Of that 219,800, 118,577 were sold leaving 101,223
  • A further 200 were given away leaving 101,023
  • That 101,023 is shown as being "Copies distributed to newsagents but not sold"

The pattern above is repeated on various examples that I have gathered in Charltons ranging from 1964 up to 1975 - all show about half the printed copies as being sold.

So the obvious questions are:

  • Why did Charlton routinely print double the amount of copies that their historic sales figures indicated would sell?
  • What happened to the unsold copies?

Anyone?

 

Nice cover stamps on that Billy :)

I was thinking - if the average print run for a Charlton was around 200K per issue in the early 1960's, and the print run for the Charlton UKPVs was around 2%, then that would indicate about 4,000 copies came over here with 6d/9d cover prices. Given that many of the Charlton UKPVs that I have seen are the only copy that I have seen, I wonder if the percentage was even lower than that? Or would an arrival of c4K books here, of which only half sold, manifest in the kind of extant numbers we see today?

There were quite a few Spidey books that had print runs of 5K (specials etc) and I have seen loads of them in my time. But then again he's arguably a much more popular - and therefore collected / preserved - character than, say, Cynthia Doyle. So likely an unfair comparison. 

Nice to speculate though, isn't it. 

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Well, the above thread didn't go where I hoped it might. One additional post here that some of you guys might enjoy, which builds on the above comment:

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/482435-charlton-print-run-vs-sales-numbers/?do=findComment&comment=11587224

Any thoughts on it, let me know. 

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On 1/28/2021 at 12:01 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

if the average print run for a Charlton was around 200K per issue in the early 1960's

Konga # 11, March 1963, has no print run figure given, but paid circulation is stated to be 137,000.

Would anyone be willing to hazard a guess on whether these figures, and the similar ones to be gleaned from DC, Marvel, etc INCLUDE or EXCLUDE those copies destined for Blighty?

They would have been firm sales, but presumably not at the same price as those distributed in the USA.

My feeling is that the published circulation figures relate to Stateside only sales.

comickonga111.jpg

comickonga112.jpg

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14 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Would anyone be willing to hazard a guess on whether these figures, and the similar ones to be gleaned from DC, Marvel, etc INCLUDE or EXCLUDE those copies destined for Blighty?

No idea, but if they don’t include UKPV copies that means the counter was reset after the first set printed (pence or cents).... and that means somewhere a record exists of the UKPV print run. Doesn’t it also mean that UKPVs would have been an ADDITIONAL print run, so if Spider-Man US cents print run was normally say 400,000 then in periods of UKPV there would have been an additional say 20,000 printed. 

This one has always stuck in my mind, it appears in Rawhide Kid #151 - the last issue - and shows in 1979 sales of 90,000 got a comic cancelled. 
D7017190-973B-48B4-BE8C-B7FF59EDEDE9.thumb.jpeg.c700af0c8a83196d9169052fe80222a7.jpeg
 

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Dates for comics can make your brain hurt. Cynthia Doyle 69 was cover dated April 1963. It would have been on sale quite a few months before that. The Statement of Ownership thingy included (in tiny print) in that issue was dated September 1962. It states the average number of comics of that title sold monthly for the previous 12 months. But Cynthia's comic hadn't been going for a full year as of September 1962. The first issue was number 66 dated October 1962. So the production figures mostly refer to the comics' earlier title Sweetheart Diary. And no details of returned/spoiled issues as in the later more detailed statements,

cynthia.jpg

Cynthia Doyle 69.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

They were at the time an essential tool for the beancounters who stood at the head of the selection ramp, guiding some titles to the right and others to the left.

Did any go down the middle Albert?

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3 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Just a straightforwardly dichotomous procedure, I reckon.

I had one of those once. It didn'arf hurt.

3 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Did Cynthia survive or perish?

Avatar says oui. 

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