The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Get Marwood & I]

16 minutes ago, Garystar said:

Sorry can’t help as I started collecting in 1973 when all marvels were 6p UKPV although as I’ve said before “new” T&P 5p stamped and UKPV 1/- still appeared several years out of date. 
I’m uncomfortable with the dock strike theory - this wouldn’t have stopped issues being printed without long prior notice (as Albert said probably less than 3 months I initially surmised but still Must have been4 to 6 weeks). The only reference to a 1964 dock strike I can find states it started on eve of general election (october 1964) and was “rapidly” settled.  What sort of contract did T&P have with Marvel - I can’t believe they could just turn on and off print runs of thousands?

I agree - the references to dock strikes that I have seen have always been anecdotal, nothing concrete. I agree that a strike wouldn't necessarily stop the books being printed as UKPVs and I can't believe they'd pulp them. Why not sit on them and then ship them when the strike was over, instead of shipping cents copies in their place? Much more likely that there was a hiccup in the arrangement between T&P and Marvel (as it looks like DC distribution carried on as normal?).

I've always dealt in fact in my research - ASM 42 & 43 haven't surfaced as UKPVs. Ditto the UKPV gaps for all the other Marvels which I've plotted over many years and are now happy with. I don't know why they don't exist though, and shipping strikes has been the only suggestion that I have seen put forward. Does it make any sense though?

So I'm keen to press on with this avenue of exploration, as it may be the case that we can disprove some old erroneous assumptions now that we have some more people participating with a greater historic knowledge of the time than I have 

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

 

Note that the 10d oblong has sticker residue, although I doubt Gold Start would have placed it over the price! I've never seen a Gold Star sticker myself and you can understand how my research into UKPVs would have brought me into contact with one at some point, so I'm intrigued.

Here's another example - a different stamp type but again with evidence of a sticker having been removed:

Do we know what the Gold Star stickers looked like @Albert Tatlock - did they have prices on them?

[Garystar]

2 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I don't know why they don't exist though, and shipping strikes has been the only suggestion that I have seen put forward. Does it make any sense though?

Just a couple of guesses;

•T&P contract with Marvel expired so stamped until new arrangement agreed.
•Marvel changed printers and new ones weren’t initially geared to do duel runs.  
??????????

 

[Get Marwood & I]

6 minutes ago, Garystar said:

Just a couple of guesses;

•T&P contract with Marvel expired so stamped until new arrangement agreed.

That's something you'd expect there to be a record of somewhere I've have thought

6 minutes ago, Garystar said:

•Marvel changed printers and new ones weren’t initially geared to do duel runs.  
??????????

That doesn't seem plausible to me, based on what I know of the printing process, but who knows? 

Where's Albert gone? And Mr T?

Chime in boys....

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Do we know what the Gold Star stickers looked like @Albert Tatlock - did they have prices on them?

Found one, on a horror magazine dated April 1977 - not very clear, but I see a price on a gold 'GSP' sticker:

[Get Marwood & I]

An earlier All-American  Men of War:

 

A December 1959 book, stamped a '6', places it here in the first cycle with our four other examples:

The more it grows, the more likely it could be that they are all actually first cycle stamps, and not late seconds...?

[Albert Tatlock]

17 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Where's Albert gone

Here, mate, hangover ebbing.

I seem to remember Gold Star stickers being at top left, clear of the price.

They were on gold foil, but were not very sticky.

Will search my spares, but it may take a while.

DD # 29 having the oblong stamp would make sense if the consignment had been delayed Stateside. It was on sale here at same time as # 22

[Get Marwood & I]

1 minute ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Here, mate, hangover ebbing.

1 minute ago, Albert Tatlock said:

I seem to remember Gold Star stickers being at top left, clear of the price.

They were on gold foil, but were not very sticky.

Will search my spares, but it may take a while.

DD # 29 having the oblong stamp would make sense if the consignment had been delayed Stateside. It was on sale here at same time as # 22

I posted one above - I'll let you catch up - please, when you have, tell me what you think of my question regarding the 10 issue gap that I posted earlier 

[Albert Tatlock]

Dock strike of 1966, quoting from a newspaper article:

The next day 29 June: ‘The NUS executive agrees by 29 votes to 16 to accept a new offer from the shipowners.’ Despite ‘a vocal group of members saying the union should have held out for its demands in full’ the strike ended at midnight on 30 June.

So, unless a serious backlog had built up on US docksides during the 2 month interruption, the July and later shipments should have gone ahead.

And we still need an explanation of how the DCs got through.

[Get Marwood & I]

One stamp old,

one stamp new!

Round the wrong way,

what's to dooo, oo-oo-ooo, oo-oo-ooo!

Well I've still got memories, to cherish 

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Dock strike of 1966, quoting from a newspaper article:

The next day 29 June: ‘The NUS executive agrees by 29 votes to 16 to accept a new offer from the shipowners.’ Despite ‘a vocal group of members saying the union should have held out for its demands in full’ the strike ended at midnight on 30 June.

So, unless a serious backlog had built up on US docksides during the 2 month interruption, the July and later shipments should have gone ahead.

And we still need an explanation of how the DCs got through.

Do those dates tie in Albert?:

[Albert Tatlock]

3 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Do those dates tie in Albert?:

These are from '64 not '66.

Note Astonish # 62, no UKPV and no stamp.

Probably none were sent

[Get Marwood & I]

Albert, @Albert Tatlock before it gets lost, can you respond to this mate:

4 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Morning boys 

Some interesting stuff in those last few posts. Velly nice - I'll digest them later as I've been plotting and can only concentrate on one thing at a time.

Now, I have a question for those of you who were 'around a the time', based on the table Gary sent me for Marvel.

My Marvel UKPV spreadsheet shows the period between October 1964 and July 1965 as having gaps of up to 10 issues for all UKPVs with no examples at all cover dated between the 8 months of December 1964 and July 1965. The titles all weren't printed at the same time of course hence the staggered gaps were some titles got through and others missed the cut off point - here's an extract to illustrate:

 

If I select some titles from Gary's spreadsheet for the same period we can see clearly that the UKPV gaps are 'replaced' with T&P stamped copies:

 

I've updated that table and added two monthly DC titles, to compare them to four of the monthly Marvel ones:

 

From the sample, for this period, we can see:

• Where Marvels have UKPVs there are no stamped copies (cents or pence)
• As soon as the UKPVs stop by cover date, the extant stamped copies start (and vice versa)
• The stamp numbering for the four Marvel titles has a broad consistency by cover month
• The stamp numbering for the four Marvels broadly has the expected sequential pattern - 6-6-8-8-2-2-3-4-8 (JIM) for example, starts at six and works up to 8 then moves to the next 1-9 cycle and moves from 2 up to 8 again, confirming the escalating pattern within the 1-9 cycles that we have come to expect for DC at least
• The two DC titles very clearly follow the sequential escalating pattern within their 1-9 cycles and are not that far off the Marvels numbering

So, here is my (hopefully not stupid) question:

If the UKPV gaps are thought to be the result of shipping strikes, does that mean that the stamped copies which filled those gaps also did not arrive in the UK in that window because of the same strike and, therefore, they all arrived after the shipping strike?

If they did, then why do they follow the same escalating stamp pattern?

I may be missing something obvious, but it looks like the UKPVs stopped, and the stamped copies replaced them. But they couldn't have if the ships weren't sailing, could they?. 

What are your recollections guys? How did the books in the alleged 10 month shipping gap arrive in the UK in your experience? Did they all just turn up one day in bulk at the newsagent? "Oh, there's JIM 110-118, great, I missed those. Horrible stamps on them though"

That seems so unlikely to me?

Could it be that there was a UKPV specific issue and it has nothing to do with ships sailing to and from the US?

@Kevin.J @Garystar @Albert Tatlock @Redshade

 

[Albert Tatlock]

The only interruption in supply that I can remember was the late 1966 issues.

I was buying all the main Marvel titles from early 1965 onwards, and they all appeared on schedule except for those 2 month's issues.

They are there as a tell-tale gap in Frank Dobson's sales list sent out while they were still missing.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

4 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

The only interruption in supply that I can remember was the late 1966 issues.

I was buying all the main Marvel titles from early 1965 onwards, and they all appeared on schedule except for those 2 month's issues.

Doesn't that imply that they all came over in sequence then, the missing 10 or so issues from all applicable Marvel titles? Wouldn't you, collecting from early 1965, have noticed the gap and then, if it happened that way, the glut of late issues when they resumed?

4 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

They are there as a tell-tale gap in Frank Dobson's sales list sent out while they were still missing.

This one you mean Albert? Most of the 'missing' JIMs are there, 110-118. And the Sgt Furys?

[Albert Tatlock]

3 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Most of the 'missing' JIMs are there, 110-118.

They were not missing at the time. They were on sale as usual, but I was not paying attention to the cents or pence issue.

Only ones which arrived out of sequence were the late '66 issues.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

5 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

They were not missing at the time. They were on sale as usual, but I was not paying attention to the cents or pence issue.

Only ones which arrived out of sequence were the late '66 issues.

 

Right, thanks Albert.

The evidence grows therefore that the break in UKPVs in this period may have nothing to do with shipping strikes given that the books continued to arrive in the UK, just as stamped cents copies:

If T&P solicited and distributed the printed UKPVs, and then maintained that distribution with stamped cents copies until the UKPVs resumed, then the issue is more likely something contractual or, perhaps, related to the pricing which changed from a printed 9d to a printed 10d on the resumption. 

Or, as Gary said, some issue with the printers?

Either way, a shipping issue now seems highly unlikely to be anything to do with that particular UKPV interruption.

 

[Albert Tatlock]

The shipping strike was over too quickly (less than 2 months) to affect comic distribution long-term.

Alan Austin's guide of 1979 lists most of the late 1966 issues as 'scarce', but he does not give a reason.

[Get Marwood & I]

1 minute ago, Albert Tatlock said:

The shipping strike was over too quickly (less than 2 months) to affect comic distribution long-term.

Alan Austin's guide of 1979 lists most of the late 1966 issues as 'scarce', but he does not give a reason.

So few reasons, we have 

You're spot on with TTA #62 Albert - no UKPV and not a stamped copy in sight. I collected a set of these for my brother about 10 years ago and don't recall ever seeing a dirty great T&P on one of them. Always a nice, clean, green (Hulk like), undisturbed cover that one. Here's his old copy, to underline your point:

[Albert Tatlock]

JIM # 110 was scarce, and does not appear on Frank Dobson's list.

Alan Austin lists # 109 as 'rare' and # 110 and #111 as 'scarce', but I do not recall #111 as being hard to find.

Alan did a lot of good work, but he cannot be relied upon 100%.