Implications of label notes “page 15 and centerfold detached”?
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This book is coming up in the next Heritage event auction, and I can’t make sense of the label. I’ve seen books where the centerfold is detached. I’ve seen books where the “2 center wraps (are) detached). I’ve never seen a book where the “center wrap and page 15 (are) detached”. I can’t get it out of my head that the book was disassembled at one point for reasons unknown. I cannot picture how else some random page becomes separated while the folios both before and after remain attached. 
 

has anyone ever seen this? (Btw: I’ve cross posted this in a Heritage Event Auction thread).
 

Any responses would be sincerely appreciated 

56DC5962-80C3-432B-A795-2174DAE1F370.jpeg

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Isn't page 15 part of the two center wraps?  1/2 of 15th wrap?

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Even though the paper quality suggests otherwise it may mean page 15 has completely split leaving the other half attached. I’ve seen some funny things inside old funny books. 

Edited by ThothAmon

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4 minutes ago, comicdonna said:

Isn't page 15 part of the two center wraps?  1/2 of 15th wrap?

I don’t know. I hope you’re right. But if that’s so, it’s much more confusing than “2 center wraps detached” and assumes all the world knows what the page count is. I, for one, do not.

does anyone know the page count?

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1 minute ago, comicdonna said:

Does that mean the cover plus 16 wraps?

Cover and 33 wraps. 

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6 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

Cover and 33 wraps. 

Thanks. Which makes this a further enigma within a conundrum 

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I’m wrong cover and 16 wraps is correct. Sorry 

Edited by ThothAmon

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It is very confusing.  When you buy a cgc graded page, it will say page 1  Actually it;s 1 and 2.  A wrap is 4 pages.  Here's a post I found from 9 years ago.

 

48 pages + a cover (counting as 4) = 52.

 

Comics started as 64 pages + cover (=68). During WW 2, they went down to 56

(+ cover = 60) Some companies did it by shifting to 14 sheets of paper (+ cover).

DC and Classics Illustrated did it by keeping 16 sheets of paper but in the back half

of the book, removing half of sheets 2, 6, 11, and 15 (open the book at the center, lie

flat, and count down from the center sheet of paper). I am going from memory so

this may not be completely accurate. Other companies also cut pages in the back half

of the book. If I remember correctly, Fawcett removed half of the center fold which

often lead to the book missing 2 or 6 pages. Very confusing but, in the case of

Fawcett, it only lasted about six months before they went down to 32 pages

(+ cover = 36).

 

Then there was a period where most comics were 48 (+ cover = 52). Some Dell titles

had some issues with 48 (+4 = 52)) and some issues with 32 (+4 = 36).

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1 hour ago, ThothAmon said:

Odds are both center wraps are detached and the label is in-artfully written. 

If it’s a 68 page book, the centerfold would be wrap 16, right? 

Edited by GreatCaesarsGhost

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1 hour ago, ThothAmon said:

Odds are both center wraps are detached and the label is in-artfully written. 

That’s probably it

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Action252Kidsaid: 

Most likely, this is one of those books with an odd page count (60 pages, including covers), with 16 pages in the front half of the book and 12 pages in the back half of the book.  So it would have four "extra", single-page "wraps" in the front half of the book, rather than the typical GA book that would have an equal number of pages in the front/back half of the book.  

That’s it! I just pulled a 1943 book down at random(see below). It’s got the 16 pages on the first half of the book(counting up to where the staples occur inside the book) and 12 on the back half. The page immediately preceding the center wrap is NOT A FULL WRAP. It’s only a page. And it’s the . . . (Wait for it) . . . 15th page. Mystery solved. 

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On 7/1/2020 at 7:06 AM, ThothAmon said:

Even though the paper quality suggests otherwise it may mean page 15 has completely split leaving the other half attached. I’ve seen some funny things inside old funny books. 

I think this is a reasonable explanation. 

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5 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

I think this is a reasonable explanation. 

We know what it is, it's a book like these where one of the wraps (the one near the centerfold) is only 1 page. So it basically means 2 wraps detached, but one of those happens to be a single page.
Here are examples of such bindings:

 

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As Adam correctly notes, CAC #37 is a 60-page issue -- the front & back covers, plus 56 interior pages.  With Timelys, the 56 interior pages were generally created via 12 full wraps and 4 half-wraps (or leaves, almost always placed before the center staple).  What CGC defines as "page 15" is actually "leaf 15" (also known as interior pages 29-30), which would be placed just before the centerfold (also known as leaves 16-17, or interior pages 31-34).

None of this confusion would occur if CGC used the proper terms on their labels.  It's ridiculous to say that a page consists of two pages.  And a comic can never be missing just one page.  One leaf, maybe.  But not one page (which publishers have always defined as one side of one leaf).  :preach:

Edited by zzutak
Typo

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24 minutes ago, zzutak said:

As Adam correctly notes, CAC #37 is a 60-page issue -- the front & back covers, plus 56 interior pages.  With Timelys, the 56 interior pages were generally created via 12 full wraps and 4 half-wraps (or leaves, almost always placed before the center staple).  What CGC defines as "page 15" is actually "leaf 15" (also known as interior pages 29-30), which would be placed just before the centerfold (also known as leaves 16-17, or interior pages 31-34).

None of this confusion would occur if CGC used the proper terms on their labels.  It's ridiculous to say that a page consists of two pages.  And a comic can never be missing just one page.  One leaf, maybe.  But not one page (which publishers have always defined as one side of one leaf).  :preach:

Right. Instead of “page”, it would be more appropriate to speak in terms of “wrap”(4 pages of art) and “leaf”(2 pages of art)

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