Let's talk about out-of-touch pricing and forum ettiquette. 7 7

[Ryan.]

12 minutes ago, Poekaymon said:

There are people here who will pay 50-100% more on a common, pre-graded book depending on who is selling it?  That is incredible, but I'll take your word for it.  Those guys are making serious bank--they can just snatch up all those other copies and go to town.  Even still, is it so bad to let people ask the question?  Then everyone can just say 'yeah we happily pay double FMV because the seller is _____.'  I don't know, besides being hard to believe, it doesn't really seem like a big problem, but maybe I am underestimating the number of trolls ready to ruin all your sales threads. 

Edit: Who is your best seller on this board for pre-graded, common books.  The cream of the crop.  The person who can command the highest premium on his or her stuff.  The big chief.  I just want to look at their sales and see how much over FMV they command on average.  Appreciate it.

I recommend looking some of the annual sales threads of some of the big time dealers on these boards. Common raw books routinely sell for well over FMV. Why? Well, feeding frenzy psychology is an interesting phenomenon. 

[Poekaymon]

1 minute ago, Ryan. said:

Common raw books routinely sell for well over FMV. 

Comon raw books

raw books

raw

raw

raw

raw

raw

Sigh.  This has already been covered roughly 10 times in this thread.  I think that's good for today.

[SpideyFein]

42 minutes ago, Ryan. said:

Wouldn't that just make the seller with the high priced book ahead of the curve? 

As @Buzzetta said, you get into weird territory when you start assigning presumed FMV to collectibles because they are not a commodity anybody NEEDS but simply WANTS and many, many collectors will happily pay more for a book depending on who is selling that particular copy. Convention pricing is basically built on that philosophy.

 

This is the take away point. As a buyer, I always want what I perceive as FMV. As a seller, I try to sell at what I perceive FMV to be, but I determine that, and everyone’s idea of FMV is different. This is the wild world of collectibles. Comics are indeed collectibles. I will say that although these boards have mods, we are given the ability to conduct sales threads independently, with a lot of freedom. Fortunately, there are rules in place that most generally follow. The boards is a community, yes- a community of collectors and others who enjoy funny books. Facebook, Instagram and others are indeed communities as well, but they are different. The majority of boardies recognize this, and that’s why many have been here for over 10 years. Many also move on from the boards because they can’t handle the rules. 
 

Members stay here because they trust one another. Not everyone, but many trust each other. If there were a few copies of a book  for an an average of $300 on eBay, and a reputable seller or someone I’ve done business with before had there book on here posted for $300 or 10% higher, I’d take it. Many would do the same. Would I send a respectable offer? Possibly, but as Buzz said if you want a book, take it. If you don’t want it, just move on. 
 

Regarding people that overprice their books- they usually don’t stay on the boards too long. If they do, people usually let them know via pm about their prices. It does happen in their threads at times, but for the most part it should be taken to pm’s. 

[Ryan.]

What are "pre-graded" books? 

[Buzzetta]

33 minutes ago, Poekaymon said:

There are people here who will pay 50-100% more on a common, pre-graded book depending on who is selling it?  That is incredible, but I'll take your word for it.  Those guys are making serious bank--they can just snatch up all those other copies and go to town.  Even still, is it so bad to let people ask the question?  Then everyone can just say 'yeah we happily pay double FMV because the seller is _____.'  I don't know, besides being hard to believe, it doesn't really seem like a big problem, but maybe I am underestimating the number of trolls ready to ruin all your sales threads. 

Edit: Who is your best seller on this board for pre-graded, common books.  The cream of the crop.  The person who can command the highest premium on his or her stuff.  The big chief.  I just want to look at their sales and see how much over FMV they command on average.  Appreciate it.

Really sounds like you have sour grapes because you cannot get things at the prices you want to pay for them. 

Hey, I'd like a Cap 1 but I am fresh out of $150k at the moment. 

You don't like the price then move on.  If you do not buy it someone else will.  If no one else buys it then the seller will come down in price.  That's basically how this works.  You have this sense of entitlement where you feel as if people must come to you at a price you feel is 'right'.  You might win me over if we were talking about necessities like food or housing.  However you are complaining that you cant get old newsprint for a price you feel is fair. 

 

 

[Buzzetta]

25 minutes ago, SpideyFein said:

Regarding people that overprice their books- they usually don’t stay on the boards too long. If they do, people usually let them know via pm about their prices. It does happen in their threads at times, but for the most part it should be taken to pm’s. 

Well... kind of except for me.. sometimes.  I know I am always on the high end of the spectrum on everything.  If it doesn't sell here I move it someplace else and will even raise the price sometimes and it will sell. 

Selling Lego sets here (even SW and Superhero sets) never usually works out.  However, I raise the prices sometimes and put them on eBay or the Facebook lego groups and outline how I am going to ship them and break down the sets...

People are more than happy to deal with someone like me and pay that premium. 

[Poekaymon]

2 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Really sounds like you have sour grapes because you cannot get things at the prices you want to pay for them. 

Hey, I'd like a Cap 1 but I am fresh out of $150k at the moment. 

You don't like the price then move on.  If you do not buy it someone else will.  If no one else buys it then the seller will come down in price.  That's basically how this works.  You have this sense of entitlement where you feel as if people must come to you at a price you feel is 'right'.  You might win me over if we were talking about necessities like food or housing.  However you are complaining that you cant get old newsprint for a price you feel is fair. 

 

1. I sell more than I buy on these boards.

2. When I see a price I don't like I move on without posting in the thread.

3. I'm not saying things have to be priced reasonably.  Price stuff whatever you want.  Price it to the moon, baby.  

Now, it is sad that I have to write these things again when I have already written them many times in this thread.  But for someone on a forum for comic books, your reading comprehension is lacking.

So now that you have my position clear, the only question has been whether people should have the freedom to discuss price within a thread, given that people can price stuff however they want, even outlandishly (as we have already established).  

As a seller, I'm fine with it.  You don't seem to be.  You say I'm entitled--I say you're insecure.

We can agree to disagree. 

[Buzzetta]

Just now, Poekaymon said:

1. I sell more than I buy on these boards.

2. When I see a price I don't like I move on without posting in the thread.

3. I'm not saying things have to be priced reasonably.  Price stuff whatever you want.  Price it to the moon, baby.  

Now, it is sad that I have to write these things again when I have already written them many times in this thread.  But for someone on a forum for comic books, your reading comprehension is lacking.

So now that you have my position clear, the only question has been whether people should have the freedom to discuss price within a thread, given that people can price stuff however they want, even outlandishly (as we have already established).  

As a seller, I'm fine with it.  You don't seem to be.  You say I'm entitled--I say you're insecure.

We can agree to disagree. 

I don't usually sell here.  I get more for my books on Clink and eBay... when I sell. 

But again, it is sour grapes... because what one person thinks is a fair price another person says is unfair.

My reading comprehension skills are pretty off the charts stellar... which is easily demonstrated by immediately assessing you as entitled.    

 

Tell you what.  The next time that you have a selling thread, tag me in it and say that any and all comments regarding price are allowable.  Watch what type of circus I turn your thread into.  Because even if you have $100 books priced at $50, I will bombard you with all sorts of reasons that you should only be charging $25. 

[Poekaymon]

Just now, Buzzetta said:

Tell you what.  The next time that you have a selling thread, tag me in it and say that any and all comments regarding price are allowable.  Watch what type of circus I turn your thread into.  Because even if you have $100 books priced at $50, I will bombard you with all sorts of reasons that you should only be charging $25. 

Laugh, and here I thought Beyonder was bad.  He actually read the posts.

What you are describing, my friend, is straight up trolling.  That is the very thing I have repeatedly said that I do not condone, and which expressly is not a part of this conversation.  You might know that if you actually bothered to look at the conversation before spewing off on page 13.  In fact, maybe you're trolling me right now.  That makes sense.  Time to see if this board has an ignore function.

[KCOComics]

 

Your position is,  if you feel a book is over priced you should thread  to alert other sellers? 

I think choosing not to buy the book is the only action necessary. 

Buyers have a responsibility to do their homework or else risk over paying.  Sellers should be able to sell at their discretion without fear of public  retribution. As has been stated,  the punishment for over pricing is not selling a book. 

 

The boards are a great environment for buying and I wouldn't tamper with a rule that could discourage sellers. There are allot of trusted dealers and collectors here that have great reputations. 

I make about 90% of my purchases from the boards or directly from dealers I know from the boards. There is a trust and confidence that I'm getting exactly what I paid for and there is a value to that. I wouldn't be shocked to find out I over paid on GA book from time to time,  but since I often work with these guys repeatedly, I don't get to worried about it.  It will even out. 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by KCOComics

[wombat]

If only these poor buyers had some tool where they could look up prices or see if there were other copies for sale. 

[Buzzetta]

1 minute ago, Poekaymon said:

Laugh, and here I thought Beyonder was bad.  He actually read the posts.

What you are describing, my friend, is straight up trolling.  That is the very thing I have repeatedly said that I do not condone, and which expressly is not a part of this conversation.  You might know that if you actually bothered to look at the conversation before spewing off on page 13.  In fact, maybe you're trolling me right now.  That makes sense.  Time to see if this board has an ignore function.

Is it though?  Is it no the same as what you are asking people to consider? 

Because to make it easy for you, I will outline what I am going to do... 

• I am going to question your grading skills.   The higher the grade the higher the value.  I don't know you.  I want to see every page, nook and cranny of the book to determine if we have truly reached what you believe to be a FMV.
• I am going to cite examples of when a book sold for less. 
• I am going to cite associated fees and charges that you do not have to pay by putting things on this platform rather than others and why a part of that discount should be further passed down to me as the buyer.

I can do a few other things but I will save that for game time. 

[Buzzetta]

1 minute ago, wombat said:

If only these poor buyers had some tool where they could look up prices or see if there were other copies for sale. 

WHOA... WHOA... WHOA... 

Now you are speaking with the tongue of the devil. 

[Poekaymon]

Just now, KCOComics said:

 

Your position is,  if you feel a book is over priced you should thread to alert other sellers? 

I think choosing not to buy the book is the only action necessary. 

Buyers have a responsibility to do their homework or else risk over paying.  Sellers should be able to sell at their discretion without fear of public  retribution. As has been stated,  the punishment for over pricing is not selling a book. 

 

The boards are a great environment for buying and I wouldn't tamper with a rule that could discourage sellers. There are allot of trusted dealers and collectors here that have great reputations. 

I make about 90% of my purchases from the boards or directly from dealers I know from the boards. There is a trust and confidence that I'm getting exactly what I paid for and there is a value to that. I wouldn't be shocked to find out I over paid on GA book from time to time,  but since I often work with these guys repeatedly, I don't get to worried about it.  It will even out. 

I also like these boards and look at them every day.  (Probably the third or fourth time in this thread I've mentioned as much.)  I'm not attacking your way of life--was just raising a topic for discussion.  Was never even asking for a change.  Was looking for some rationales, and man alive, did I get them. 

Your position is the majority position.  That has been clear since like page 6 if not earlier.  I thought it was interesting discussion, but was never going to do anything other than I always have done: simply not buy the book and move on to the next thread.  (I've said that more than once as well--but this is going to be the last time I repeat it.)

[KCOComics]

1 minute ago, Poekaymon said:

I also like these boards and look at them every day.  (Probably the third or fourth time in this thread I've mentioned as much.)  I'm not attacking your way of life--was just raising a topic for discussion.  Was never even asking for a change.  Was looking for some rationales, and man alive, did I get them. 

Your position is the majority position.  That has been clear since like page 6 if not earlier.  I thought it was interesting discussion, but was never going to do anything other than I always have done: simply not buy the book and move on to the next thread.  (I've said that more than once as well--but this is going to be the last time I repeat it.)

I didn't read through 13 pages of comments. Only read your question and attempted to answer it.

Sorry if it's been stated by others,  but that's my position. 

 

[Poekaymon]

3 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

 

• I am going to question your grading skills.   The higher the grade the higher the value.  I don't know you.  I want to see every page, nook and cranny of the book to determine if we have truly reached what you believe to be a FMV.
• I am going to cite examples of when a book sold for less. 
• I am going to cite associated fees and charges that you do not have to pay by putting things on this platform rather than others and why a part of that discount should be further passed down to me as the buyer.

I can do a few other things but I will save that for game time. 

1. You mean you're going to question CGC's grading skills?  As has been said something like 10 times in this thread, we're talking graded books.  

2. Citing examples of when a book sold for less.  Irrelevant.  As has also been said something like 10 times in this thread, we're talking stuff that has current, available, multiple BINs.    

3. Ebay fees are valid.  I do think stuff on here should be lower by the amount of ebay fees.  So I'm on board with that one.

Your "few other things," while simultaneously enticing and frightening, are also irrelevant compared to the existence of the BINs, which is the entire premise of this post.

 

[Poekaymon]

5 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

I didn't read through 13 pages of comments. Only read your question and attempted to answer it.

Sorry if it's been stated by others,  but that's my position. 

 

And I recognized that it's the majority position.  And I stated that I am going to do exactly what you suggested.  That's a slam dunk, captain.

[Buzzetta]

Just now, Poekaymon said:

1. You mean you're going to question CGC's grading skills?  As has been said something like 10 times in this thread, we're talking graded books.  

2. Citing examples of when a book sold for less.  Irrelevant.  As has also been said something like 10 times in this thread, we're talking stuff that has current, available, multiple BINs.    

3. Ebay fees are valid.  I do think stuff on here should be lower by the amount of ebay fees.  So I'm on board with that one.

Your "few other things," while simultaneously enticing and frightening, are also irrelevant compared to the existence of the BINs, which is the entire premise of this post.

 

1 - Ohhhh you mentioned 'pre-graded' books also.   So I will start off with that.   Also as you have stated not even all 9.8's are created the same.  I know how to needle and pick.  I will be a discerning buyer. 

2 - Nope... not irrelevant.  If there are 10 sales in the month of June I am going to cite the lowest in relation to your pricing. 

3 - Tell me... as a buyer... are you paying tax like you are forced to on most transaction on eBay?  Seems that these boards are already saving buyers some money... but we can debate that in your thread. 

 

I will follow you and wait for your next sales thread to see if you not only put your boots on but can walk around in them. 

[Poekaymon]

34 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

1 - Ohhhh you mentioned 'pre-graded' books also.   So I will start off with that.   Also as you have stated not even all 9.8's are created the same.  I know how to needle and pick.  I will be a discerning buyer. 

2 - Nope... not irrelevant.  If there are 10 sales in the month of June I am going to cite the lowest in relation to your pricing. 

3 - Tell me... as a buyer... are you paying tax like you are forced to on most transaction on eBay?  Seems that these boards are already saving buyers some money... but we can debate that in your thread. 

 

I will follow you and wait for your next sales thread to see if you not only put your boots on but can walk around in them. 

I mean, you just keep changing the goal posts to fit your agenda. 

1. It was never my position that books had to be lower, just that they should be in the ballpark.  "Realm of reasonableness," I said.  At one point I specifically said 20% over market was fine.  The discussion was around books that were grossly overpriced.  Like 50% or double. Variations in 9.8s are not going to make something double.  Maybe 10-20% at best--so 20% over eBay is still A-OK.

2.  It was never my position that if there were 10 prior sales in the month and one was lower that it was in any way relevant.  The discussion has always be in relation to multiple, currently available BINs.  That's key and that's why it has been said so many times.  What you are proposing is asinine, and I expressly never suggested it because it is so asinine. 

3.  I don't pay tax on eBay, no.

I have never endorsed badgering someone on these points you are raising.  In fact, I have repeatedly said I didn't condone them.  So threatening me with them makes no sense except to continue your trolling.

Having said all that, if you ever see me post for sale a graded, common book, which has multiple BINs up on eBay at the time I make the post for 50% less than my book, I give you permission to bring up that fact in the thread.  You know what?  I'll even hold myself to a higher standard than I was suggesting for everyone else.  If you even see one available BIN for less than my book, you can point it out.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Poekaymon

[Buzzetta]

7 minutes ago, Poekaymon said:

I mean, you just keep changing the goal posts to fit your agenda. 

1. It was never my position that books had to be lower, just that they had to be in the ballpark.  At one point I specifically said 20% over market was fine.  We were talking about books that were grossly overpriced.  Like 50% or double. Variations in 9.8s are not going to make something double.  Maybe 10-20% at best--so 20% over eBay is still A-OK.

2.  It was never my position that if there were 10 prior sales in the month and one was lower that it was in any way relevant.  The discussion has always be in relation to multiple, currently available BINs.  That's key and that's why it has been said so many times.  What you are proposing is asinine, and I expressly never suggested it because it is so asinine. 

3.  I don't pay tax on eBay, no.

I have never endorsed badgering someone on these points you are raising.  In fact, I have repeatedly said I didn't condone them.  So threatening me with them makes no sense except to continue your trolling.

Having said all that, if you ever see me post for sale a graded, common book, which has multiple BINs up on eBay at the time I make the post for 50% less than my book, I give you permission to bring up that fact in the thread.  

Not a threat... I want to see how it goes.  Set up a legitimate for sale thread and publicly state that you will allow any and all discussion.  Let’s see how it goes. Let’s see what happens.