Let's talk about out-of-touch pricing and forum ettiquette. 7 7

[Poekaymon]

 

9 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Not a threat... I want to see how it goes.  Set up a legitimate for sale thread and publicly state that you will allow any and all discussion.  Let’s see how it goes. Let’s see what happens.  

I just told you exactly the standard involved in this discussion and gave you permission to intervene if I violate that standard.

You seem to be asking for permission to troll, but I've been against that all along.  No one should have their posts trolled--Including me, right now.  

Edited July 6, 2020 by Poekaymon

[The-Collector]

On 7/5/2020 at 3:28 AM, Poekaymon said:

I'm speaking generally.  So let's just say there are 10 copies of something up right now with a BIN of $300.  If someone comes here to post, my personal opinion is that they should put it at 10% or so less.  But I'd be fine with even $300 or even $310 if they want.  But if they come here and post it at, say, $400, then that's just spam, and as worthless as if they had posted no price at all or didn't put shipping rules or any of the other things that will get a post pulled around here.  Just one man's opinion.

If you discount the book so that you make no extra selling on the boards what incentive does a seller have to sell in this venue? 

[Poekaymon]

2 minutes ago, The-Collector said:

If you discount the book so that you make no extra selling on the boards what incentive does a seller have to sell in this venue? 

Read what you quoted.  On a book with multiple $300 BINs, I said I would be fine with $300 or $310.  At $310 you're making, at a minimum since those eBay BINs might not even sell, $10 + $30 over eBay.  Is that not enough?

Edited July 6, 2020 by Poekaymon

[The-Collector]

4 minutes ago, Poekaymon said:

Read what you quoted.  On a book with multiple $300 BINs, I said I would be fine with $300 or $310.  At $310 you're making, at a minimum since those eBay BINs might not even sell, $10 + $30 over eBay.  Is that not enough?

Sure. I was really responding to your original statement 'For the most part, I think this board is pretty good for deals.  And it should be--sellers don't have to pay any eBay fees.  As a general rule, it seems to me at a minimum things posted here should be 10% less than the going eBay rate.' Ebay does not charge 10%.

 

Edit: Also in the statement I originally quoted you still recommend a 10% discount so in that case I disagree. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by The-Collector

[Poekaymon]

3 minutes ago, The-Collector said:

Sure. I was really responding to your original statement 'For the most part, I think this board is pretty good for deals.  And it should be--sellers don't have to pay any eBay fees.  As a general rule, it seems to me at a minimum things posted here should be 10% less than the going eBay rate.' Ebay does not charge 10%.

I actually thought eBay was 10%.  Anyway, have repeatedly said people don't need to be lower on these boards, although my personal opinion is that they should.  Cut your boardies a break.   But some guy said he likes to go 20% over eBay on here.  I personally think that's messed up, but for the purposes of this thread, it's in the realm of reasonableness. 

Anyway, people can charge whatever they want.  That was never the issue. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Poekaymon

[The-Collector]

On 7/5/2020 at 3:04 AM, Poekaymon said:

Yeah, but you're just repeating what is customary and/or "frowned upon."  I already know that, as I acknowledged in my post.  I asked you to, just for the purposes of this discussion here, forget about the rules/policy/custom for a moment and actually discuss whether or not that should be the policy.  

Using a PM doesn't get it done with regard to my proposition that sometimes we might have a responsibility to alert other people.  (Not insisting that we do--but that's the topic of discussion I have proposed.)  

As to protecting the right of people to post whatever price they want, let me ask you a hypothetical.  It is against the rules, for example, to post something with no price.  But it's fine to post something at (for the sake of discussion) 10x the going rate?  Both posts are equally and absolutely worthless, wouldn't you agree?

The norm is pragmatic; it allows you to have a sales thread that is succinct and prevents unnecessary quibbling over price between the seller and whoever it is who felt it necessary to object to their pricing (which is likely not someone who is actually interested in buying the book).

I'm just brain storming, so I could be wrong but several other reasons come to mind as to why pointing mis-pricing in threads is a bad idea: 

- If the book isn't common or isn't common in grade previous sales are often a poor guide to current value; 

- On common books this is less of an issue but pricing is inexact so there is still a non-negligible chance that you are wrong;

- Morally there is no obligation for third parties to police others' transactions. I think that the obligation is on the parties to the contract to make sure they have done their due diligence and are properly informed. If there is some moral obligation then it seems that their should also be an obligation to point out books that are underpriced. This seems like it would then become unworkable and result in a lot of argument in threads. 

[Poekaymon]

2 minutes ago, The-Collector said:

The norm is pragmatic; it allows you to have a sales thread that is succinct and prevents unnecessary quibbling over price between the seller and whoever it is who felt it necessary to object to their pricing (which is likely not someone who is actually interested in buying the book).

I'm just brain storming, so I could be wrong but several other reasons come to mind as to why pointing mis-pricing in threads is a bad idea: 

- If the book isn't common or isn't common in grade previous sales are often a poor guide to current value; 

- On common books this is less of an issue but pricing is inexact so there is still a non-negligible chance that you are wrong;

- Morally there is no obligation for third parties to police others' transactions. I think that the obligation is on the parties to the contract to make sure they have done their due diligence and are properly informed. If there is some moral obligation then it seems that their should also be an obligation to point out books that are underpriced. This seems like it would then become unworkable and result in a lot of argument in threads. 

Don't really want to go back and debate every single post from the last 14 pages.  These points have already been considered and responded to.

But in general, I don't even disagree with you.  That's why we are expressly talking common books with multiple, current BINs that are considerably lower than the posted book.  Super objective.  Easy to verify.  Hard to justify.

You're imagining scenarios in which people are ruining threads with stuff like Buzzetta is suggesting.  Because they are trolls and they don't have clear evidence it's grossly overpriced--they are just trying to haggle or ruin the thread.  No, sir, that's not okay.  I agree with you.  And if this board is infested with such people, then that's game over.  I might just have a little more confidence in people, but I freely admit that I might be wrong.  

[The-Collector]

1 minute ago, Poekaymon said:

Don't really want to go back and debate every single post from the last 14 pages.  These points have already been considered and responded to.

But in general, I don't even disagree with you.  That's why we are expressly talking common books with multiple, current BINs that are considerably lower than the posted book.  Super objective.  Easy to verify.  Hard to justify.

You're imagining scenarios in which people are ruining threads with stuff like Buzzetta is suggesting.  Because they are trolls and they don't have clear evidence it's grossly overpriced--they are just trying to haggle or ruin the thread.  No, sir, that's not okay.  I agree with you.  And if this board is infested with such people, then that's game over.  I might just have a little more confidence in people, but I freely admit that I might be wrong.  

I think multiple buy it nows are relevant but could still be wrong / unhelpful as these books aren't perfect fungibles so the presence of BINs isn't always relevant (though it usually is).

I wasn't thinking of the type of situations you raise but I agree that that would be horrible. I do think in the more prosaic cases it is still a bad idea for the reasons I and others have raised.  

[Poekaymon]

34 minutes ago, The-Collector said:

I think multiple buy it nows are relevant but could still be wrong / unhelpful as these books aren't perfect fungibles so the presence of BINs isn't always relevant (though it usually is).

Yep, I agree that the BINs are not perfect fungibles, hence the margin of error (previously I said 20% over BIN is not worthy of any discussion, but I'll let you go even higher, cause I like you).  

Edit: And, realtalk, BINs are actually pretty damn favorable to sellers in the first place as they are usually overpriced and that's why they are sitting there unsold.  It's just that I've tried to be overly accommodating in the hypothetical, so I set it up as nicely as possible for our fine sellers here.  But if I'm being real, really real with you, BINs are almost always high.  To be even higher than those, and not even have to pay the eBay fee, seems pretty greedy to me.  That's just an aside though.  Just one man's opinion.  Don't tar and feather me.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Poekaymon

[vheflin]

[Buzzetta]

46 minutes ago, Poekaymon said:

 

I just told you exactly the standard involved in this discussion and gave you permission to intervene if I violate that standard.

You seem to be asking for permission to troll, but I've been against that all along.  No one should have their posts trolled--Including me, right now.  

Nope... here is how this will go.  If you set up a sales thread inviting comments on your pricing, I will make sure to stop by and comment on anything and everything I see fit to comment on. 
 

so set up the thread.  Price your stuff and if myself or anyone finds anything disagreeable according to our standards we will take you up on the invite and comment away.   Hey, maybe it will be the greatest sales thread ever... or it will be a circus.  Either way, if you invite me, I am bringing my clown nose because I love a good circus.

 

but... only if I am invited.

 

nighty night

[Poekaymon]

2 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Nope... here is how this will go.  If you set up a sales thread inviting comments on your pricing, I will make sure to stop by and comment on anything and everything I see fit to comment on. 
 

so set up the thread.  Price your stuff and if myself or anyone finds anything disagreeable according to our standards we will take you up on the invite and comment away.   Hey, maybe it will be the greatest sales thread ever... or it will be a circus.  Either way, if you invite me, I am bringing my clown nose because I love a good circus.

 

but... only if I am invited.

 

nighty night

Makes no sense.  I don't want anyone trolled, including myself.  If you honestly feel something of mine is overpriced, then go ahead.

[Poekaymon]

 

4 minutes ago, vheflin said:

[ExNihilo]

55 minutes ago, Poekaymon said:

58 minutes ago, The-Collector said:

Sure. I was really responding to your original statement 'For the most part, I think this board is pretty good for deals.  And it should be--sellers don't have to pay any eBay fees.  As a general rule, it seems to me at a minimum things posted here should be 10% less than the going eBay rate.' Ebay does not charge 10%.

I actually thought eBay was 10%.  Anyway, have repeatedly said people don't need to be lower on these boards, although my personal opinion is that they should.  Cut your boardies a break.   But some guy said he likes to go 20% over eBay on here.  I personally think that's messed up, but for the purposes of this thread, it's in the realm of reasonableness. 

Anyway, people can charge whatever they want.  That was never the issue. 

eBay fees with regards to comics are 10% (unless you are classified as a business or have a large enough number of monthly sales...I think).

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/selling-fees?id=4364

[F For Fake]

My feelings on this topic fit pretty neatly with my general life philosphy, which is LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE.

[Poekaymon]

2 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

My feelings on this topic fit pretty neatly with my general life philosphy, which is LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[Buzzetta]

6 hours ago, Poekaymon said:

Makes no sense.  I don't want anyone trolled, including myself.  If you honestly feel something of mine is overpriced, then go ahead.

I will wait until you place that disclaimer in your next sales thread and invite myself and others giving us cart blanche to comment.

Remember, what FMV is to one, is not FMV to another.  With that said, I am sure this thread will go on for a few more pages, however I look forward to the future and hopefully am provided a free ticket to the circus. See you there.

[KCOComics]

4 hours ago, Poekaymon said:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

This is completely true. 

But is over pricing comic books evil?  If your concerned with fighting evil doers there are better places to put your time and energy. 

 

[KPR Comics]

What is “pre-graded”?  Is that like pre-screened?

[Jeffro.]

9 hours ago, Ryan. said:

What are "pre-graded" books? 

They're the ones on ebay with the keyword spam stating CGC IT!!!!