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Is it just me, or has this spine been realigned?
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46 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, gadzukes said:

Spine realignment came at the cost of a detached centerfold.

The 7.0 seems like a gift grade knowing the CF detached.  Hmmmmmm?

That's what I thought also.  The other thing that bothers me is what was a binder chip is no longer that, but rather a chunk off of the back cover.  I don't think it should be considered a production defect once somebody Costanzas the book like this.

The problem is that CGC is rewarding this kind of behavior.  Period.  If they penalized this move, it wouldn't happen anymore and we'd have a lot more books surviving in better condition, longer.  As it is, perhaps the most embarrassing aspect of this is that the book looked better before.  This really is like plastic surgery for comics now.  And just like the horrible things wealthy and famous people do to themselves trying to "look younger", it's gross and doesn't age well. 

Congratulations to the presser and the person that had it pressed.  :golfclap:

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To me, the book looked more visually appealing (and natural) with the pages splayed out when looking at the back -- the original.  Now, the interior is highly visible from the front -- me no like...!

Anyway, the pedigree status could result in the grader being slightly more lenient than normal.

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On 7/6/2020 at 2:36 PM, The Lions Den said:

I understand that folks like to make their books as visually appealing as possible, but I do have to say that I could appreciate the book more in it's original condition. And it's pretty hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that the book could have a detached centerfold and still be considered a 7.0...  (shrug)

me too, especially since we know that it was once attached. That becomes a pretty big flaw and it really sucks that a book that looked amazing and was held together for 75 years has now worsened. Seems almost sacrilegious. I wonder what that centrefold looks like now, are there rips along the staples, that sort of thing. 

I could understand a 7.0 if the book was made that way (since then it's just a manufacturing defect) but it does not make sense here. 

EDIT: Wait a sec I know what's going on here. It's a 7.0 green label but CGC always has issues with special labels made for universal that take precedence in their systems. So since there are no qualified pedigree labels, this got the gold but is probably a qualified comic.

Edited by William-James88
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25 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

me too, especially since we know that it was once attached. That becomes a pretty big flaw and it really sucks that a book that looked amazing and was held together for 75 years has now worsened. Seems almost sacrilegious. I wonder what that centrefold looks like now, are there rips along the staples, that sort of thing. 

I could understand a 7.0 if the book was made that way (since then it's just a manufacturing defect) but it does not make sense here. 

EDIT: Wait a sec I know what's going on here. It's a 7.0 green label but CGC always has issues with special labels made for universal that take precedence in their systems. So since there are no qualified pedigree labels, this got the gold but is probably a qualified comic.

Shouldn't the word "Qualified" be on the label somewhere?  That's kind of confusing.  At least the label notes are there.

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Just now, gadzukes said:

Shouldn't the word "Qualified" be on the label somewhere?  That's kind of confusing.  At least the label notes are there.

Qualified has it's distinctive colour that comes with the labelling. If it's not part of the system, it might not appear. We already saw this happen on other specialty labels where the words qualified were not there. I'll report it.

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47 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

me too, especially since we know that it was once attached. That becomes a pretty big flaw and it really sucks that a book that looked amazing and was held together for 75 years has now worsened. Seems almost sacrilegious. I wonder what that centrefold looks like now, are there rips along the staples, that sort of thing. 

I could understand a 7.0 if the book was made that way (since then it's just a manufacturing defect) but it does not make sense here. 

EDIT: Wait a sec I know what's going on here. It's a 7.0 green label but CGC always has issues with special labels made for universal that take precedence in their systems. So since there are no qualified pedigree labels, this got the gold but is probably a qualified comic.

You make a good point---just because a book is a pedigree doesn't mean it can't be Qualified...

Edited by The Lions Den
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FYI, I reached out to CGC in case to know if there was an error (not just with this book but with having qualified books given gold labels) and they stated that there is no error. This book was deemed 7.0 since it is the highest grade achievable with a detached centrefold (which was confirmed to be detached during the process).

This in no way changes any opinion I previously stated, I think what happened here is not advantageous even though a higher grade was obtained in the process.

It is also really making me doubt part of the grading standards, both in the fact of what how a detached centrefold affects the grade AND how much the spine roll brought the grade down. I always thought that a spine roll (if the comic was made that way) should have minimal impact once you fall below the near mint minus range.

Basically, what I mean is I believe mint is mint (using term here in the general sense), regardless of spine roll. What we had before was a book with minimal wear and the main defect was a production defect while now the main defect is from people manipulating the book. And yet the later has been given a higher grade. Feels like Bizarro graded the comic.

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1 hour ago, William-James88 said:

FYI, I reached out to CGC in case to know if there was an error (not just with this book but with having qualified books given gold labels) and they stated that there is no error. This book was deemed 7.0 since it is the highest grade achievable with a detached centrefold (which was confirmed to be detached during the process).

This in no way changes any opinion I previously stated, I think what happened here is not advantageous even though a higher grade was obtained in the process.

It is also really making me doubt part of the grading standards, both in the fact of what how a detached centrefold affects the grade AND how much the spine roll brought the grade down. I always thought that a spine roll (if the comic was made that way) should have minimal impact once you fall below the near mint minus range.

Basically, what I mean is I believe mint is mint (using term here in the general sense), regardless of spine roll. What we had before was a book with minimal wear and the main defect was a production defect while now the main defect is from people manipulating the book. And yet the later has been given a higher grade. Feels like Bizarro graded the comic.

Thanks for reaching out to them, but I had a feeling this was intentional (the tip-off for me was the "centerfold detached" notation on the label was written in lower case, not capital letters). Ah well, I guess you learn something every day...    

Edited by The Lions Den
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6 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

Thanks for reaching out to them, but I had a feeling this was intentional (the tip-off for me was the "centerfold detached" notation on the label was written in lower case, not capital letters). Ah well, I guess you learn something every day...    

The next time I submit something that might need a label notation I'm going to request lowercase letters  and an even tinier font size. :banana:

 

Edited by gadzukes
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I feel like this grade would make a little more sense if the book was say a NM copy other than the detached CF. But the book barely looks like a 7.0 even if the CF was attached, I really don't get it.

My question is why didn't the book have the detached CF noted in the original slab? Was it even detached then, or could it have come detached during the pressing? (I may have missed if this was answered)

Edited by HuddyBee
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21 minutes ago, HuddyBee said:

I feel like this grade would make a little more sense if the book was say a NM copy other than the detached CF. But the book barely looks like a 7.0 even if the CF was attached, I really don't get it.

My question is why didn't the book have the detached CF noted in the original slab? Was it even detached then, or could it have come detached during the pressing? (I may have missed if this was answered)

It was attached before. It came apart when the spine was realigned. Which is why this is pretty darn incredulous that the grade after the CF was detached is the higher grade.

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11 hours ago, William-James88 said:

It was attached before. It came apart when the spine was realigned. Which is why this is pretty darn incredulous that the grade after the CF was detached is the higher grade.

Thanks, I agree this seems like a gross over-grade. I know that CGC is sometimes more lenient with GA books but this seems pretty crazy to me. I always thought a detached CF brought a book down to at least a 5.0 or a 4.0. (shrug)

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14 hours ago, William-James88 said:

It was attached before. It came apart when the spine was realigned. Which is why this is pretty darn incredulous that the grade after the CF was detached is the higher grade.

This is when an experienced Presser might have stepped in to say, "In my professional opinion we should not press this because the CF is too fragile at the staples.  I'd love to take your money, but we should pass on this comic."

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