William-James88 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 3 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: Said no presser, ever. Except for Matt. I think he would speak up But a press is only 10$, not sure how much profit is made from it when all is said and done. Compare that to how much business might be lost if it's revealed you did this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeypost Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 4 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: Said no presser, ever. Except for Matt. I think he would speak up Are you 100% sure? silverseeker, The Lions Den, comicdonna and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE_BEYONDER Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 What a heaping pile of dog poop. Presser re-aligns the spine & in the process manages to detach the centerfold. And CGC gives it grade bump? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE_BEYONDER Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) On 7/8/2020 at 10:54 AM, William-James88 said: FYI, I reached out to CGC in case to know if there was an error (not just with this book but with having qualified books given gold labels) and they stated that there is no error. This book was deemed 7.0 since it is the highest grade achievable with a detached centrefold (which was confirmed to be detached during the process). This would be a reasonable explanation if the book was MIINT.....but it's not. Edited July 10, 2020 by THE_BEYONDER silverseeker and Randall Dowling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) On 7/8/2020 at 9:54 AM, William-James88 said: I always thought that a spine roll (if the comic was made that way) Spine roll is damage, not a manufacturing flaw. This is not an example of a miscut or miswrap. On 7/5/2020 at 11:08 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said: To me, it appears as though the spine has been moved. Yeah, twice. Once when it suffered spine roll and once when an attempt was made to fix it. Edited July 11, 2020 by Lazyboy &$%$@%$ typo The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill the Governor Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) On 7/9/2020 at 8:01 PM, THE_BEYONDER said: What a heaping pile of dog poop. Presser re-aligns the spine & in the process manages to detach the centerfold. And CGC gives it grade bump? Really? The book is supposed to be graded as it is, not as it was. Who ever pressed this book didn't take proper precaution, and/or the centerfold was already just about detached anyways and would have said so upon a re-submission without pressing. Regardless, I think it's a beautiful book and I can see a 7.0, which it is. A 7.5, no. But I think it's nicer than a 6.5, even with a detached centerfold. This being said: if someone brought me this book to press I would either pass, or I would have reversed the spine roll correctly, this isn't something that is acceptable on any book let alone one of this caliber if it wasn't already detached. The messed up part is, that regardless the grade is higher so.... more money. Edited July 11, 2020 by Phill the Governor THE_BEYONDER 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 23 minutes ago, Phill the Governor said: The messed up part is, that regardless the grade is higher so.... more money Not this time around Randall Dowling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William-James88 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 2 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: Not this time around How so? Not everyone reads this thread to know its not really a 7.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 24 minutes ago, William-James88 said: How so? Not everyone reads this thread to know its not really a 7.0. It didn’t bring 7.0 money. It brought 6.0-6.5 money. Given what they likely paid, I don’t think this could have been profitable William-James88, Randall Dowling and silverseeker 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro. Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 On 7/9/2020 at 8:07 PM, Lazyboy said: On 7/8/2020 at 10:54 AM, William-James88 said: I always thought that a spine roll (if the comic was made that way) Spine roll is damage, not a manufacturing flaw. This is not an example of a miscut or miswrap. Agreed. There seems to be some confusion regarding what is and what is not considered spine roll. Based on comments I've seen people make on this board, some think that miswraps are spine roll and that's not the case. William-James88, Phill the Governor, silverseeker and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 16 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said: It didn’t bring 7.0 money. It brought 6.0-6.5 money. Given what they likely paid, I don’t think this could have been profitable Very interesting... William-James88 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PovertyRow Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) On 7/9/2020 at 4:28 PM, joeypost said: Are you 100% sure? LOL. My first reaction was "Joey has said that on multiple occasions!" Edited July 11, 2020 by PovertyRow spilling ... err ... spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William-James88 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 On 7/10/2020 at 7:57 PM, Phill the Governor said: The book is supposed to be graded as it is, not as it was. If this is true then does that mean that a centrefold that was detached is not that big a detriment to the grade compared to a spine roll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill the Governor Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 2 hours ago, William-James88 said: If this is true then does that mean that a centrefold that was detached is not that big a detriment to the grade compared to a spine roll? In my experience centerfolds that are detached can often be carefully reinserted - it just depends on how much paper is still present. The centerfold may have been almost detached the first time around and minimal handling needed for the spine roll reversal caused it to pop out - but there's no way to know for sure. But to answer your question from a strictly conservation standpoint, yes. The spine roll affects eye appeal and is what it is, or is not. A detached centerfold can be remedied from either reinserting it (if possible) or reinforcing it which (although it makes sense from a structural viewpoint) isn't viewed favorably from a value standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William-James88 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) On 7/6/2020 at 1:07 PM, Randall Dowling said: That's what I thought also. The other thing that bothers me is what was a binder chip is no longer that, but rather a chunk off of the back cover. I don't think it should be considered a production defect once somebody Costanzas the book like this. But if the spine roll fix is to make the spine look more like it did originally, then that means the chipping was not there originally either and thus isnt considered a bindery chip nor a production defect. It becomes the book's biggest flaw along with the centrefold detached and that myriad of stress marks along the edge. And now that I think of it, all those flaws make this otherwise amazing looking book the worst 7.0 I have ever seen in my life. Edited July 12, 2020 by William-James88 gadzukes, The Lions Den and silverseeker 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadzukes Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 On 7/12/2020 at 12:03 PM, William-James88 said: But if the spine roll fix is to make the spine look more like it did originally, then that means the chipping was not there originally either and thus isnt considered a bindery chip nor a production defect. It becomes the book's biggest flaw along with the centrefold detached and that myriad of stress marks along the edge. And now that I think of it, all those flaws make this otherwise amazing looking book the worst 7.0 I have ever seen in my life. I agree. When the "Spine chip" was on the spine, it was somewhat hidden and seemed more acceptable. But moving the spine chip to the back cover suddenly creates an obvious visual flaw on the back cover that it didn't have before. Couple that with the CF detachment....... This was an example of work that simply didn't need to be done. The Lions Den and William-James88 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 4 hours ago, gadzukes said: I agree. When the "Spine chip" was on the spine, it was somewhat hidden and seemed more acceptable. But moving the spine chip to the back cover suddenly creates an obvious visual flaw on the back cover that it didn't have before. Couple that with the CF detachment....... This was an example of work that simply didn't need to be done. I ask myself that question all the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted March 14, 2021 Author Share Posted March 14, 2021 I’ve got another suspected spine manipulation. I believe I used to own this book, but can’t find the image. I think you’d have to go to the original image to see it best, which is in the current Heritage signature auction. But I think the spine has been changed so the spine ticks now appear on the back cover instead of the front: The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Some folks are never satisfied... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro. Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) Not that I have the disposable cash to throw at a 9.4 FF 5 but it's this kind of stuff that makes me very glad I don't, and in many cases can't, chase high grade books anymore. There are just too many shenanigans going on. Sometimes I think the down stream effects/consequences of slabbing (the chasing of dollars and the highest grade possible) is the worst thing that could have happened to our hobby. Edited March 14, 2021 by Jeffro. silverseeker, Number 6 and The Lions Den 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
