Cracking open an old CGC slab 1 1

[migmtl76]

So I finally own a copy of Silver Surfer #4.

I am thinking of having it cracked open to press and clean it and reslab it at CGC.

I checked, there is a 200-300$ difference between a 8.0 and 8.5.

Is it true that CGC used to grade their books more tight or is that a rumour ?

If you have done this before, please share your experience/result on this thread.

Thanks !

Ps. Sorry. I don't have better pics yet so I have no idea if the book was pressed/cleaned but probably not with an old slab.

[jokiing]

Can you obtain the grader's notes? That may help with making a decision. 

[migmtl76]

1 hour ago, jokiing said:

Can you obtain the grader's notes? That may help with making a decision. 

How do I do that ? Thanks

[MagicMan_2017]

If you can't get the notes, even taking a visual would help you decide. If there are non-color breaking creases and bends/stresses and other regular wear like finger bends, etc ... those are all things that a good press could help improve. I cracked an 8.5 book before and it came back as a 9.8. With that one, I knew the rest of the book was sharp with the exception of some cover creases. Good luck!

[ablue]

This is a great avenue to take. Old CGC blue grades are awsome as most were not pressed or cleaned.  Unfortunately majority see comics as $$ signs and will do whatever to increase their investment. Me my glory days of a teen in the 80s exploring the golden age was amazing.  Just finding that rare issue and looking at it in awe was truly awsome but I have to admit I also saw the $$ potential way back lol. So I'm a hypocrite lol. Yes you did good find more and that's where you will find untapped findings still . Best of luck!

And added by  jokiing and MagicMan_2017  this was excellent advice getting graders notes.

Edited by Ablue 

Edited July 8, 2020 by ablue

[jokiing]

2 hours ago, migmtl76 said:

How do I do that ? Thanks

The original submitter of the comic book may have them, but being an older slab, the seller may not be the original owner. I believe CGC can provide grader notes for a fee but you should contact them because I don't know the process.

Edited July 8, 2020 by jokiing

[Tony S]

I do not find it to be true that CGC graded books consistently more strict in their early days (old label) Except for page quality.  Based on experience, I believe the first few years open CGC was  more strict on page quality.  The appeal of old label books is that it's very unlikely they were cleaned and pressed, since that wasn't really an established thing yet. Cleaning and pressing were generally part of an overall restoration of comics. Done by the few restoration experts around. 

I also do not find graders notes all that helpful. Ultimately what is helpful is an in-hand examination by someone that can look for both the the defects pressing can improve and defects that can't be improved. And they have some experience and skill with likely CGC grade if resubmitted.  I only bother with grading notes when a CGC graded books looks much nicer than the assigned grade.  Then they might be useful in identifying any defects that are difficult to impossible to see because of the encapsulation. 

You cannot do a proper evaluation of CPR (crack, press, resubmit)  from a few pictures. That said, Looking at the pictures, the book looks to be worth pressing and resubmitting. I do not believe you'll see a huge bump. The defect that can't be fixed with pressing and will hold the book back grade wise  is the small tear on the middle of the right outer edge of the front cover. Probably done by someone using a thumb or finger to open the the cover. Two little tiny tears and a stress line between the tears.  

So you need to get this book in for evaluation of CPR. There are a number of qualified pressing services.  Perhaps simplest for someone new to the game is just send it in to CCS - the in house pressing service of CGC.  Pay for the book to be screened and CCS will decide if the book is good candidate (no guarantees, just an expert opinion) for removing from the holder, pressing and regrading. Once CCS has done their part then they send the book over to CGC for grading and encapsulation. 

The real deal here is cost vs benefit. This is not a guaranteed thing. So you are rolling the dice. By the time you pay for shipping to CCS, screening, pressing grading and return shipping back to you the bill will probably be over $100. IF the book goes up to 8.5 you've made a few bucks but that's it. . If it stays the same you are out the money.  Which is why you want to pay for the screening if you use CCS

 

[KCOComics]

I don't believe CGC graded more strictly in the old days personally. 

That said,  you should be able to get the graders notes from CGC.  As was mentioned earlier if you see notes that say "non color breaking creases", then a press will help.  Some dirt maybe come off with a dry clean. 

If it's mostly color breaking or other types of damage,  I wouldn't think you would get a grade bump from a press. 

 

Great book by the way. Completing SS 1 - 18 was one of my first collecting goals years and years ago! Congrats. 

[Keys_Collector]

5 hours ago, Tony S said:

I do not find it to be true that CGC graded books consistently more strict in their early days (old label) Except for page quality.  Based on experience, I believe the first few years open CGC was  more strict on page quality.  The appeal of old label books is that it's very unlikely they were cleaned and pressed, since that wasn't really an established thing yet. Cleaning and pressing were generally part of an overall restoration of comics. Done by the few restoration experts around. 

I also do not find graders notes all that helpful. Ultimately what is helpful is an in-hand examination by someone that can look for both the the defects pressing can improve and defects that can't be improved. And they have some experience and skill with likely CGC grade if resubmitted.  I only bother with grading notes when a CGC graded books looks much nicer than the assigned grade.  Then they might be useful in identifying any defects that are difficult to impossible to see because of the encapsulation. 

You cannot do a proper evaluation of CPR (crack, press, resubmit)  from a few pictures. That said, Looking at the pictures, the book looks to be worth pressing and resubmitting. I do not believe you'll see a huge bump. The defect that can't be fixed with pressing and will hold the book back grade wise  is the small tear on the middle of the right outer edge of the front cover. Probably done by someone using a thumb or finger to open the the cover. Two little tiny tears and a stress line between the tears.  

So you need to get this book in for evaluation of CPR. There are a number of qualified pressing services.  Perhaps simplest for someone new to the game is just send it in to CCS - the in house pressing service of CGC.  Pay for the book to be screened and CCS will decide if the book is good candidate (no guarantees, just an expert opinion) for removing from the holder, pressing and regrading. Once CCS has done their part then they send the book over to CGC for grading and encapsulation. 

The real deal here is cost vs benefit. This is not a guaranteed thing. So you are rolling the dice. By the time you pay for shipping to CCS, screening, pressing grading and return shipping back to you the bill will probably be over $100. IF the book goes up to 8.5 you've made a few bucks but that's it. . If it stays the same you are out the money.  Which is why you want to pay for the screening if you use CCS

 

This and reiterating in bold IMO the most important bits.

[William-James88]

There is no hard set rule of old vs new labels, any outcome can happen. 

You just have to ask yourself if the potential 200$ is worth the $70 bet. If you pay $70 and it comes back 8.0 or less (because it coming back worse CAN also happen) would you be willing to accept that? 

If the answer is no, then leave it be.

11 hours ago, migmtl76 said:

So I finally own a copy of Silver Surfer #4.

I am thinking of having it cracked open to press and clean it and reslab it at CGC.

I checked, there is a 200-300$ difference between a 8.0 and 8.5.

Is it true that CGC used to grade their books more tight or is that a rumour ?

If you have done this before, please share your experience/result on this thread.

Thanks !

Ps. Sorry. I don't have better pics yet so I have no idea if the book was pressed/cleaned but probably not with an old slab.

 

[The Lions Den]

13 hours ago, migmtl76 said:

Is it true that CGC used to grade their books more tight or is that a rumour ?

What I can tell you is that grading can fluctuate. Not all graders see things the same way on every book. 

With that said, Tony's comments are right on, especially regarding page quality. One of the primary graders in those days used to be very strict on page quality...

[jokiing]

11 hours ago, Tony S said:

I only bother with grading notes when a CGC graded books looks much nicer than the assigned grade.  Then they might be useful in identifying any defects that are difficult to impossible to see because of the encapsulation. 

Defects such as those behind the covers that a press and clean may not significantly help, although with the book graded at 8 the defects are more likely to be to the covers.

[migmtl76]

11 hours ago, Tony S said:

I do not find it to be true that CGC graded books consistently more strict in their early days (old label) Except for page quality.  Based on experience, I believe the first few years open CGC was  more strict on page quality.  The appeal of old label books is that it's very unlikely they were cleaned and pressed, since that wasn't really an established thing yet. Cleaning and pressing were generally part of an overall restoration of comics. Done by the few restoration experts around. 

I also do not find graders notes all that helpful. Ultimately what is helpful is an in-hand examination by someone that can look for both the the defects pressing can improve and defects that can't be improved. And they have some experience and skill with likely CGC grade if resubmitted.  I only bother with grading notes when a CGC graded books looks much nicer than the assigned grade.  Then they might be useful in identifying any defects that are difficult to impossible to see because of the encapsulation. 

You cannot do a proper evaluation of CPR (crack, press, resubmit)  from a few pictures. That said, Looking at the pictures, the book looks to be worth pressing and resubmitting. I do not believe you'll see a huge bump. The defect that can't be fixed with pressing and will hold the book back grade wise  is the small tear on the middle of the right outer edge of the front cover. Probably done by someone using a thumb or finger to open the the cover. Two little tiny tears and a stress line between the tears.  

So you need to get this book in for evaluation of CPR. There are a number of qualified pressing services.  Perhaps simplest for someone new to the game is just send it in to CCS - the in house pressing service of CGC.  Pay for the book to be screened and CCS will decide if the book is good candidate (no guarantees, just an expert opinion) for removing from the holder, pressing and regrading. Once CCS has done their part then they send the book over to CGC for grading and encapsulation. 

The real deal here is cost vs benefit. This is not a guaranteed thing. So you are rolling the dice. By the time you pay for shipping to CCS, screening, pressing grading and return shipping back to you the bill will probably be over $100. IF the book goes up to 8.5 you've made a few bucks but that's it. . If it stays the same you are out the money.  Which is why you want to pay for the screening if you use CCS

 

Great advice. Thanks  Tony S  !!! 

[migmtl76]

8 hours ago, KCOComics said:

I don't believe CGC graded more strictly in the old days personally. 

That said,  you should be able to get the graders notes from CGC.  As was mentioned earlier if you see notes that say "non color breaking creases", then a press will help.  Some dirt maybe come off with a dry clean. 

If it's mostly color breaking or other types of damage,  I wouldn't think you would get a grade bump from a press. 

 

Great book by the way. Completing SS 1 - 18 was one of my first collecting goals years and years ago! Congrats. 

Thanks, I have issue #1 un graded probably a 7.0. Also looking for a nice copy of issue #3, hard to find or some reason

[William-James88]

4 minutes ago, migmtl76 said:

Thanks, I have issue #1 un graded probably a 7.0. Also looking for a nice copy of issue #3, hard to find or some reason

Issue 3 is the biggest key from the run since it's a first appearance of a major villain that has yet to appear in an MCU film. It's not hard to find though, there are a ton available at the moment. Here's a 9.4 https://www.ebay.ca/itm/SILVER-SURFER-3-CGC-9-4-OWW-1st-Appearance-Mephisto-1968-1-Fantastic-Four-Movie/254645374169?hash=item3b4a0c0cd9:g:tWQAAOSwFB9fAnd-

[Chaz G.]

16 hours ago, migmtl76 said:

How do I do that ? Thanks

Get the CGC Certification # from the card insert. 

Enter it at the bottom of the CGC Main page.  https://www.cgccomics.com/

When the main info for the book comes up, at the bottom you'll have the option of purchasing the Grader Notes for that book for $5

Hope this helps.

[migmtl76]

Thanks will look it up

[Deadpoolica]

I like the old label so 

[Chaos_in_Canada]

On 7/8/2020 at 12:25 AM, ablue said:

This is a great avenue to take. Old CGC blue grades are awsome as most were not pressed or cleaned.  Unfortunately majority see comics as $$ signs and will do whatever to increase their investment. Me my glory days of a teen in the 80s exploring the golden age was amazing.  Just finding that rare issue and looking at it in awe was truly awsome but I have to admit I also saw the $$ potential way back lol. So I'm a hypocrite lol. Yes you did good find more and that's where you will find untapped findings still . Best of luck!

And added by  jokiing and MagicMan_2017  this was excellent advice getting graders notes.

Edited by Ablue 

[Chaos_in_Canada]

Some of my OLD CGC Label ASMs