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Do prices ever go down?
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Hey guys.

I have dabbled in collecting art in the past but I’m getting into it more heavily recently.

I was just wondering if there were any scenarios where the cost of an artists work went down? I mean, it seems like the longer an artist is in the industry the bigger following they have and the more popular they become which drives the price up. 

 Also if they stop producing art because Father time catches up with them that seems to cut supply which also raises the price.

If more time passes it becomes an antique and that seems to drive price up.

So are there examples of artists who fell out of favor and the value of their work went down? 

Steve

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You might find this previous discussion useful:

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/462255-what-artartists-have-dropped-in-popularity/#comments

Spoiler alert, but the answer is "yes".  Some artists simply have a decline of interest in their work; some genres or titles/characters fall out of favor; or a market can be flooded with more supply than can be absorbed at previous price levels (I'd say Walt Kelly's Pogo was a victim of all three).  

Edited by ShallowDan
correcting typo
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For modern art I can think of a few good examples of guys producing so much work that their OA prices suffer. 

First name that comes to mind is Ed Benes. I bought a stack of his stuff in the early 2000's and was getting close to $500 a page for the better Gen 13/Wildcats pages. He's been steadily pumping out work ever since and those same Gen 13 pages I've seen sell for half of what I got for them 20 years ago. I wish I had the same opportunity with Campbell pages because those are 5-10x what they were selling for at the time. 

I think part of it is that Benes has been on big books for a long time, so those dollars are going more towards his JLA etc stuff. There's just a lot to choose from and Gen 13 is probably near the bottom of most people's list. 

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20 minutes ago, Real Elijah Snow said:

For modern art I can think of a few good examples of guys producing so much work that their OA prices suffer. 

First name that comes to mind is Ed Benes. I bought a stack of his stuff in the early 2000's and was getting close to $500 a page for the better Gen 13/Wildcats pages. He's been steadily pumping out work ever since and those same Gen 13 pages I've seen sell for half of what I got for them 20 years ago. I wish I had the same opportunity with Campbell pages because those are 5-10x what they were selling for at the time. 

I think part of it is that Benes has been on big books for a long time, so those dollars are going more towards his JLA etc stuff. There's just a lot to choose from and Gen 13 is probably near the bottom of most people's list. 

That era Gen 13 was terrific.  I think the drop in price has more to do with Gen 13 and Wildcats not really being featured in big comics anymore.  

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30 minutes ago, Real Elijah Snow said:

For modern art I can think of a few good examples of guys producing so much work that their OA prices suffer. 

First name that comes to mind is Ed Benes. I bought a stack of his stuff in the early 2000's and was getting close to $500 a page for the better Gen 13/Wildcats pages. He's been steadily pumping out work ever since and those same Gen 13 pages I've seen sell for half of what I got for them 20 years ago. I wish I had the same opportunity with Campbell pages because those are 5-10x what they were selling for at the time. 

I think part of it is that Benes has been on big books for a long time, so those dollars are going more towards his JLA etc stuff. There's just a lot to choose from and Gen 13 is probably near the bottom of most people's list. 

Been looking for a Campbell From Hell page for awhile and consistently disappointed in how off the public comps are. 

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8 hours ago, Westy Steve said:

Hey guys.

I have dabbled in collecting art in the past but I’m getting into it more heavily recently.

I was just wondering if there were any scenarios where the cost of an artists work went down? I mean, it seems like the longer an artist is in the industry the bigger following they have and the more popular they become which drives the price up. 

 Also if they stop producing art because Father time catches up with them that seems to cut supply which also raises the price.

If more time passes it becomes an antique and that seems to drive price up.

So are there examples of artists who fell out of favor and the value of their work went down? 

Steve

One of the peculiar aspects of this hobby is that the book for which the art is intended and the subject matter of the page are so important to pricing. Pricing can go down generally, but specific pages from “special books” can stay up. Other variations are possible, too. Also, price drops are often quiet. I have noticed the prices of John Bolton’s art from Books of Magic have dropped over the years, but not necessarily his other work. And, you have to dig to get there.

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6 hours ago, Real Elijah Snow said:

For modern art I can think of a few good examples of guys producing so much work that their OA prices suffer. 

First name that comes to mind is Ed Benes. I bought a stack of his stuff in the early 2000's and was getting close to $500 a page for the better Gen 13/Wildcats pages. He's been steadily pumping out work ever since and those same Gen 13 pages I've seen sell for half of what I got for them 20 years ago. I wish I had the same opportunity with Campbell pages because those are 5-10x what they were selling for at the time. 

I think part of it is that Benes has been on big books for a long time, so those dollars are going more towards his JLA etc stuff. There's just a lot to choose from and Gen 13 is probably near the bottom of most people's list. 

Don’t confuse great art with high prices. Pricing is more a function of popularity than quality. For the life of me, I still cannot understand how Dillion’s work has gotten as pricey as it is—except for the fact that he drew JLA and other popular books.

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In many cases prices don’t go down but remain stagnant. There are most definitely good buys out there. For many years Sal Buscema Art was very inexpensive or just didn’t rise in value. When people realized this, values started to jump.
There are certain genres such as horror which are slowly starting to creep up. That being said, you’ll have a hard time finding main stream hero art by popular artists trending down. If a piece checks all boxes, don’t be afraid to pay up.

Artists who’s prices have slowed are mostly modern ones such as Alex Ross, Frank Cho, Campbell, Ed Benes etc.

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1 hour ago, AnkurJ said:

In many cases prices don’t go down but remain stagnant. There are most definitely good buys out there. For many years Sal Buscema Art was very inexpensive or just didn’t rise in value. When people realized this, values started to jump.
There are certain genres such as horror which are slowly starting to creep up. That being said, you’ll have a hard time finding main stream hero art by popular artists trending down. If a piece checks all boxes, don’t be afraid to pay up.

Artists who’s prices have slowed are mostly modern ones such as Alex Ross, Frank Cho, Campbell, Ed Benes etc.

Note that the phrase "but remain stagnant" can be a synonym for more easily "negotiable downwards". Also, older journeymen artists fall into that category as well. How much demand is there for Bill Draut's work?

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This is great info, and it really helps me understand the market better.  I feel like I really know the comic book market well, and I even feel I have a decent eye for art, but the art market seems fickle and imperfect by comparison...it's like the wild west!

Since this is my own thread, without derailing the original topic, can I get a little input on two more issues?

1.  What is the etiquette for counter-offers?  I mean, some art is so "hot" that even finding a piece by a "hot" artist can be difficult.  When you do find one, is it considered bad manners to make a counter-offer?  Or does this attitude apply: "This is art, dammit...this piece is hard to get, we're refined gentlemen and it's poor form to counter-offer...this isn't comic books!"?

2.  How do you evaluate the value of a piece of art when it's not from the genre the artist is known for?  For example, suppose you run across a work by Frazetta that's a still life of a bowl of fruit.  On the one hand, "Wow, that's Frazetta's original work!"   On the other it's like "yeah, but it's a bowl of fruit...not a sexy girl or a monster".

Thanks in advance for any estimates or advice.  I'd rather have imperfect advice than try to make decisions in a vacuum, so understand the best guess you don't want to make public is valuable to me.

Edited by Westy Steve
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2 hours ago, Westy Steve said:

 

2.  How do you evaluate the value of a piece of art when it's not from the genre the artist is known for?  For example, suppose you run across a work by Frazetta that's a still life of a bowl of fruit.  On the one hand, "Wow, that's Frazetta's original work!"   On the other it's like "yeah, but it's a bowl of fruit...not a sexy girl or a monster".

 

It's 200-250k. end of story. 

I hear you. I tend to think the discounting should be steep but his work is being pulled up (all of it apparently) by high profile public sales. I think the answer you will get is a frustrating one in that it really depends on what you are willing to spend/sacrifice to own that piece. I also think there aren't many other artists being discussed on this board that have the same "but it's a..." phenomenon. A Frazetta bowl of fruit has almost no value to me and I'd much rather have a pencil rough thematically related to his known body of work for likely less money than any full oil. 

Edited by cstojano
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2 hours ago, Westy Steve said:

 

1.  What is the etiquette for counter-offers?  I mean, some art is so "hot" that even finding a piece by a "hot" artist can be difficult.  When you do find one, is it considered bad manners to make a counter-offer?  Or does this attitude apply: "This is art, dammit...this piece is hard to get, we're refined gentlemen and it's poor form to counter-offer...this isn't comic books!"?

 

There's no hard fast rule but you have to be able to read the room too.

If someone APPROACHES YOU with a piece asking for $3k and you say, "Well, can do $2800," then I think that's reasonable (although that doesn't guarantee a done deal).

If YOU APPROACH someone on CAF for a piece that's NSF and they say, "Ok, $3100," and you counter with $3k, I think that's reasonable, too; however, you also risk killing the deal. They are not at all obligated to sell to you. The bad manners in this case would be if you offer half.

Because currently the market is hot (or perceived as hot, because not everything is) you have to understand what you're willing to spend on a certain piece and if you're to pay a little extra over your comfort level to secure it. Here's the thing you're not considering: you cold call a piece; the seller says I'll sell for $3100. You say, well I can do $2800, but I need a month to pay (or whatever). The seller agrees, but now has time to think about the deal. They may 1) renege on the deal and you leave with nothing; 2) shop it around and if they find a buyer that is willing to meet their original price or beat it, they will sell it behind your back. This has happened to me and my friends more than once.

So, you really have to consider if it's even worth countering, but it goes back to being able to read the room.

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7 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

Don’t confuse great art with high prices. Pricing is more a function of popularity than quality. For the life of me, I still cannot understand how Dillion’s work has gotten as pricey as it is—except for the fact that he drew JLA and other popular books.

I'm not confusing anything. I don't see how this relates to my post at all. I said that Ed Benes art on Gen 13/Wildcats has, in my experience, lost value due to the quantity of his work, and people not paying what they once did for art from lesser known titles. I said nothing about the quality of his work. 

Who's Dillion? 

Are you talking about Steve Dillon? He never drew JLA that I'm aware of. If he did it was a small sample size. Dillon is famous for his Preacher and Punisher stuff. 

Did you mean to quote someone else? 

 

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1 hour ago, John E. said:

Here's the thing you're not considering: you cold call a piece; the seller says I'll sell for $3100. You say, well I can do $2800, but I need a month to pay (or whatever). The seller agrees, but now has time to think about the deal. They may 1) renege on the deal and you leave with nothing; 2) shop it around and if they find a buyer that is willing to meet their original price or beat it, they will sell it behind your back. This has happened to me and my friends more than once.

This is all true. And I'll add something that very few talk about, sometimes the first offer is the only offer you'll get and your counter results in "seeya, it's now off-market". A variation on that is counters are not necessarily chained to anything that came before. Example:

Ben - I'd take 5k for this.

Alan - Hmm, how about 3900?

Ben - Naw. Now it's 7k.

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24 minutes ago, Real Elijah Snow said:

I'm not confusing anything. I don't see how this relates to my post at all. I said that Ed Benes art on Gen 13/Wildcats has, in my experience, lost value due to the quantity of his work, and people not paying what they once did for art from lesser known titles. I said nothing about the quality of his work. 

Who's Dillion? 

Are you talking about Steve Dillon? He never drew JLA that I'm aware of. If he did it was a small sample size. Dillon is famous for his Preacher and Punisher stuff. 

Did you mean to quote someone else? 

 

I'm guessing the OP meant Richard Dillon and that his first name was censored.

Edited by kbmcvay
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23 minutes ago, Real Elijah Snow said:

Who's Dillion? 

Are you talking about Steve Dillon? He never drew JLA that I'm aware of. If he did it was a small sample size. Dillon is famous for his Preacher and Punisher stuff. 

Did you mean to quote someone else? 

 

One man’s D*ck Dillion is another man’s Steve Dillion. 
 

I was confused too, thought he was talking about Steve, until I figured it out. Doesn’t help that you can’t spell kciD without getting flagged. 
 

And every time I see “KJ” for Killing Joke I think we’re talking about Kelley Jones. “Batman KJ” doesn’t help either. 

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