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Do prices ever go down?
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60 posts in this topic

47 minutes ago, vodou said:

This is all true. And I'll add something that very few talk about, sometimes the first offer is the only offer you'll get and your counter results in "seeya, it's now off-market". A variation on that is counters are not necessarily chained to anything that came before. Example:

Ben - I'd take 5k for this.

Alan - Hmm, how about 3900?

Ben - Naw. Now it's 7k.

True, true. I used to see this happen on eBay frequently, though not too often lately. 

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18 hours ago, Westy Steve said:

Hey guys.

I have dabbled in collecting art in the past but I’m getting into it more heavily recently.

I was just wondering if there were any scenarios where the cost of an artists work went down? I mean, it seems like the longer an artist is in the industry the bigger following they have and the more popular they become which drives the price up. 

 Also if they stop producing art because Father time catches up with them that seems to cut supply which also raises the price.

If more time passes it becomes an antique and that seems to drive price up.

So are there examples of artists who fell out of favor and the value of their work went down? 

Steve

Yes, look for my auctions...everything I sell goes for a discount

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2 hours ago, kbmcvay said:

I'm guessing the OP meant Richard Dillon and that his first name was censored.

Aaaaah....That makes more sense. I WAS confused haha. 

I think part of it was also that a lot of people poop on Steve Dillon art, so that's where my mind went. 

My bad. I didn't even know people even talked about Rod Dillon. 

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3 hours ago, Real Elijah Snow said:

I'm not confusing anything. I don't see how this relates to my post at all. I said that Ed Benes art on Gen 13/Wildcats has, in my experience, lost value due to the quantity of his work, and people not paying what they once did for art from lesser known titles. I said nothing about the quality of his work. 

Who's Dillion? 

Are you talking about Steve Dillon? He never drew JLA that I'm aware of. If he did it was a small sample size. Dillon is famous for his Preacher and Punisher stuff. 

Did you mean to quote someone else? 

 

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4 hours ago, Real Elijah Snow said:

I'm not confusing anything. I don't see how this relates to my post at all. I said that Ed Benes art on Gen 13/Wildcats has, in my experience, lost value due to the quantity of his work, and people not paying what they once did for art from lesser known titles. I said nothing about the quality of his work. 

Who's Dillion? 

Are you talking about Steve Dillon? He never drew JLA that I'm aware of. If he did it was a small sample size. Dillon is famous for his Preacher and Punisher stuff. 

Did you mean to quote someone else? 

 

I question whether raw volume is a significant factor in this market, as compared to less popular books (where we basically agree). I have one of his pages, and he is good.
I know I am showing my age here, but I did mean Richard Dillin.

Similarly, when I think of Orlando, I think of Joe. 

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5 hours ago, vodou said:

Ben - I'd take 5k for this.

Alan - Hmm, how about 3900?

Ben - Naw. Now it's 7k.

That exchange just illustrates that the piece was never really FS in the first place.  :wink:

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1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

I question whether raw volume is a significant factor in this market, as compared to less popular books (where we basically agree). I have one of his pages, and he is good.
I know I am showing my age here, but I did mean Richard Dillin.

Similarly, when I think of Orlando, I think of Joe. 

Ah. Gotcha. (thumbsu

 

 

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14 minutes ago, thethedew said:

That exchange just illustrates that the piece was never really FS in the first place.  :wink:

Nope.

I been "Ben" several times. In this case "Alan" was an anonymous third party that CLink represented, something I'd won from them and they had a customer that missed winning it and still wanted to make a move on it.

The numbers were a little different (higher, in all cases), but ultimately the deal was done -after six months. At my last, full, and final number. And that number was the highest number quoted by me too. Unfortunately (for the buyer), this all happened after they passed on two previous "my word is my bond" prices - the other party kept trying to counter me down, so each of my offers fell flat, and thus expired, each of my next new offers moved the price up.

The buyer ultimately paid nearly 50% more, and waited six months too for their trouble, instead of taking my initial offer. My (wasted) time will be paid for. And it was :)

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8 hours ago, John E. said:

There's no hard fast rule but you have to be able to read the room too.

If someone APPROACHES YOU with a piece asking for $3k and you say, "Well, can do $2800," then I think that's reasonable (although that doesn't guarantee a done deal).

If YOU APPROACH someone on CAF for a piece that's NSF and they say, "Ok, $3100," and you counter with $3k, I think that's reasonable, too; however, you also risk killing the deal. They are not at all obligated to sell to you. The bad manners in this case would be if you offer half.

Because currently the market is hot (or perceived as hot, because not everything is) you have to understand what you're willing to spend on a certain piece and if you're to pay a little extra over your comfort level to secure it. Here's the thing you're not considering: you cold call a piece; the seller says I'll sell for $3100. You say, well I can do $2800, but I need a month to pay (or whatever). The seller agrees, but now has time to think about the deal. They may 1) renege on the deal and you leave with nothing; 2) shop it around and if they find a buyer that is willing to meet their original price or beat it, they will sell it behind your back. This has happened to me and my friends more than once.

So, you really have to consider if it's even worth countering, but it goes back to being able to read the room.

This is good advice but how do we provide it without giving 'cover' for low integrity people that renege on deals - this is not acceptable behavior - but agree it happens.  In the end, learning your market segment is crucial to paying the 'right' price without regrets - recently, selling has been hard not to regret  :)

 

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9 hours ago, mtlevy1 said:

This is good advice but how do we provide it without giving 'cover' for low integrity people that renege on deals - this is not acceptable behavior - but agree it happens.  In the end, learning your market segment is crucial to paying the 'right' price without regrets - recently, selling has been hard not to regret  :)

 

First, bear in mind that art is personal and unique. If you consider pricing it like buying a car, you may miss out.
If I inquired about a piece, and if the price was affordable but not insane, I would lock it down immediately. Assuming we are not talking about $100,000 pieces here, a 10% swing won’t amount to much hard money over time. Recently, I walked away when the swing was 1/3 on what I considered a piece with a slow future. But otherwise, I would stretch. 
I would not buy a piece over time, except from a dealer, for reasons just mentioned. Confirm the deal in writing and PayPal over the $. Aside from the legal rights that gives you, few things motivate a seller more than the receipt of hard cash.

And what about pieces you want but can’t afford to buy right now? Skip ‘em. Art is unique, but desire isn’t. There will be another beautiful blonde around the next corner who isn’t nearly as costly. And if was meant to be, you will meet up with the first one later.

Edited by Rick2you2
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On 7/10/2020 at 4:58 PM, thethedew said:

That exchange just illustrates that the piece was never really FS in the first place.  :wink:

Probably it was a maybe and a lower offer will make the piece into a keeper? I know I've done it with a publisher that wanted to low ball me on a cover. I just went ahead and put it in a price tag nobody will ever buy.

I've also had buyers wanting to pick great stuff for cheap telling me that the market is not there for the stuff. If it isn't why care to buy then? Lol, get out of here!

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On 7/10/2020 at 6:44 PM, mtlevy1 said:

This is good advice but how do we provide it without giving 'cover' for low integrity people that renege on deals - this is not acceptable behavior - but agree it happens.  In the end, learning your market segment is crucial to paying the 'right' price without regrets - recently, selling has been hard not to regret  :)

 

I once made a deal for a piece I really wanted for my Black Hole collection. I made my first payment and then the seller sent a refund letting me know he had already sold it for a little bit more and in one payment. Bummer that we have people like this in the hobby.

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19 minutes ago, timguerrero said:

I once made a deal for a piece I really wanted for my Black Hole collection. I made my first payment and then the seller sent a refund letting me know he had already sold it for a little bit more and in one payment. Bummer that we have people like this in the hobby.

This is exactly what I’m talking about. 
 

Once, I sent the entire payment via PayPal and it was refunded to me after 5 minutes stating there was another guy who said, “Hey, a long time ago you said you’d sell it to me if you ever let it go!” This was my grail and the new buyer just added it to his bucket of pages from the same artist and run. 
 

Putting it in writing and PayPal don’t mean a thing. As far as cover, I don’t believe in outing ppl as a knee-jerk reaction, but trust me, word gets around. 

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On 7/10/2020 at 1:49 PM, vodou said:

This is all true. And I'll add something that very few talk about, sometimes the first offer is the only offer you'll get and your counter results in "seeya, it's now off-market". A variation on that is counters are not necessarily chained to anything that came before. Example:

Ben - I'd take 5k for this.

Alan - Hmm, how about 3900?

Ben - Naw. Now it's 7k.

A couple months ago I sent a message to a guy who has had a $280 page on ebay for years and years that he continually lists as an auction. I sent him a very polite message with "hey any chance you would take $200 plus shipping for this page? I've been wanting this page for a long time" and sent over a screen shot of a best offer email I sent in 2016. He replied with "Oh thanks for alerting me I had this for sale too cheap" and then raised the price.

It's one of those pages I've been meaning to buy for a long time and I actually would have just paid what he was asking when I sent the message but out of principle I won't anymore

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