Inside the Comic Book Industry’s Sexual Misconduct Crisis 0

[jcjames]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/warren-ellis-cameron-stewart-and-the-storm-of-sexual-misconduct-allegations-roiling-the-comic-book-industry

Long list of names with a long history of abuse.

And it's probably only the tip of the iceberg.

 

 

[bb8]

Interesting article. I would say that these types of industries are hard to fix, though. It's similar to the music industry or film-making. There are just so many people who are competing for so few jobs that when some 'bad actors' gain power the abuse can be difficult to root out. Especially when they are legitimately talented.

 

[god503]

One way to.screw around with yellow label values.... 

[F For Fake]

22 hours ago, bb8 said:

Interesting article. I would say that these types of industries are hard to fix, though. It's similar to the music industry or film-making. There are just so many people who are competing for so few jobs that when some 'bad actors' gain power the abuse can be difficult to root out. Especially when they are legitimately talented.

 

That seems to be one of the biggest hurdles, getting over the "well, what he did was wrong, but I don't care because I love his stuff!" Companies will continue to hire predators as long as the audience tells them they want to keep buying it. Separation of art and artist can be difficult, and it's also difficult to say whether or not we have an obligation to do so as the end consumer.

For instance, I felt good cutting Roman Polanski's work out of my life a long time ago (though I do love Chinatown and Rosemary's Baby) but I still enjoy the work of lots of problematic folks like, say, David Bowie. In fact, a dive into the behaviors of most of our "rock gods" with underage groupies is eye-opening and unsettling.

With comic creators, I guess I have to try to take it on a case by case basis and decide for myself how I feel about specific allegations, the proof, and my relationship to the work. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

"Crisis"? Idk.

[bb8]

1 hour ago, F For Fake said:

That seems to be one of the biggest hurdles, getting over the "well, what he did was wrong, but I don't care because I love his stuff!" Companies will continue to hire predators as long as the audience tells them they want to keep buying it. Separation of art and artist can be difficult, and it's also difficult to say whether or not we have an obligation to do so as the end consumer.

For instance, I felt good cutting Roman Polanski's work out of my life a long time ago (though I do love Chinatown and Rosemary's Baby) but I still enjoy the work of lots of problematic folks like, say, David Bowie. In fact, a dive into the behaviors of most of our "rock gods" with underage groupies is eye-opening and unsettling.

With comic creators, I guess I have to try to take it on a case by case basis and decide for myself how I feel about specific allegations, the proof, and my relationship to the work. 

Yeah I agree with all that. I actually still think Louis CK is very funny, for example.

The biggest hurdle, as I see it, is the grey and the murky area of work-for-hire.Take, for instance, what Warren Ellis is accused of. He contracts someone to do a job. While she's producing the work, he makes a pass, she turns him down, the contract is finished and he subsequently chooses not to hire her any more in the future. She has only been contracted for a certain, set job. She has no HR department, no supervisor, no chain-of-command for recourse whatsoever. Is it skeevy? Immoral? Sure, granted that it happened (not saying one way or another). But without an actual crime being committed, the only place this could likely be tried is in the court of public opinion. Which comes with its own set of gross baggage. It's just a weird space they operate in. I work for the government, so there's a VERY clear process for redress. Much of the comics industry, not so much.

Of course, this wouldn't apply to direct employees of Marvel, DC, Darkhorse, etc. And perhaps there's contract law that covers this sort of thing, but I am wholly ignorant.

Edited July 14, 2020 by bb8

[kav]

Our culture is one in which sex is a commodity.  You see it in advertising, movies, magazines, even on Judge judy cases.  The root problem is deeper than a few miscreants.

[jcjames]

8 hours ago, F For Fake said:

That seems to be one of the biggest hurdles, getting over the "well, what he did was wrong, but I don't care because I love his stuff!" Companies will continue to hire predators as long as the audience tells them they want to keep buying it. Separation of art and artist can be difficult, and it's also difficult to say whether or not we have an obligation to do so as the end consumer.

For instance, I felt good cutting Roman Polanski's work out of my life a long time ago (though I do love Chinatown and Rosemary's Baby) but I still enjoy the work of lots of problematic folks like, say, David Bowie. In fact, a dive into the behaviors of most of our "rock gods" with underage groupies is eye-opening and unsettling.

With comic creators, I guess I have to try to take it on a case by case basis and decide for myself how I feel about specific allegations, the proof, and my relationship to the work. 

Well said, and shows how easy it is to enter the slippery slope of our current "cancel culture" with regards to so many people. Not just those who are sexual predators too.

Didn't know that about Bowie by the way. Hmm.... I wonder if there are some niches (arts, music, movies, etc.) where sexual predation is more rampant than the general workplace (accounting, data-entry, cashiering, etc.)

 

 

[F For Fake]

2 hours ago, jcjames said:

Well said, and shows how easy it is to enter the slippery slope of our current "cancel culture" with regards to so many people. Not just those who are sexual predators too.

Didn't know that about Bowie by the way. Hmm.... I wonder if there are some niches (arts, music, movies, etc.) where sexual predation is more rampant than the general workplace (accounting, data-entry, cashiering, etc.)

 

 

I definitely would hesitate to call Bowie a sexual predator, and I understand that standards were perhaps more lax at the time. But lots of rock heroes are confirmed to have slept with underage groupies. It’s a far cry from drugging and raping a child (ala Polanski) but it’s still morally murky.

[kav]

10 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

I definitely would hesitate to call Bowie a sexual predator, and I understand that standards were perhaps more lax at the time. But lots of rock heroes are confirmed to have slept with underage groupies. It’s a far cry from drugging and raping a child (ala Polanski) but it’s still morally murky.

In the 70s and 80s guys in their 20s went out with 16 year olds and no one thought anything of it.  I had friends that did this.  Even the girl's parents didnt object.  I believe things are better now-a 16-17-18 year old even is still a child and thinks like a child.

[D84]

I worked briefly in entertainment and honestly, most of them that I met, men and women, were horrible human beings. 

If I were only watching entertainment that was made by good people, there'd be almost nothing to watch. 

After accepting this, it made separating the art from the artist easy.

By no means am I condoning any of their behavior.

Edited July 15, 2020 by D84

[kav]

5 minutes ago, D84 said:

I worked briefly in entertainment and honestly, most of them that I met, men and women, were horrible human beings. 

If I were to only watching entertainment that was made by good people, there'd be almost nothing to watch. 

After accepting this, it made separating the art from the artist easy.

By no means am I condoning any of their behavior.

I've seen this with (ex) friends-make them important (in this case sensei of a dojo) and they become instant arrogant a holes.  And this ex friend was previously a really decent top notch guy.
The celeb that can stay humble is an incredible gem of a human being.  
I knew one of the stars of big trouble in little china whom I shall not name-a greater a hole pompoid you cannot even imagine.

Edited July 15, 2020 by kav

[Prince Namor]

 "This is not remotely a new problem. Longtime DC editor Julius Schwartz—who held dominion over Superman, Batman and The Justice League from the ’60s to the ’80s and was referred to in some quarters by the affectionate nickname “Uncle Julie”—was accused of groping and sexually assaulting female creators and staffers for years. Those who complained internally at DC were ignored. Schwartz retired in 1986 and continued to appear at cons on behalf of the company as a kind of “goodwill ambassador” until his death in 2004. After he died, comics professionals like Jo Duffy and Jill Thompson spoke openly about their experiences with him; artist Colleen Doran related a story about Schwartz attempting to grope her in a limousine when she was an aspiring teenage artist."