herc2000 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 On 7/16/2020 at 8:32 PM, telerites said: I normally don't chime in on a thread like this ans while I know there are a couple of threads for crossover results,I did find my recent crossover submission interesting. I have sent in several other crossovers and guesstimate that there was a fairly consistent correlation at least with CBCS or while some went down nearly the same amount went or like I said stayed the same. The last submission results are below. On the two PGX, I am just happy no restoration or missing pieces/pages. Not a large sample here but all but one went down and the one that didn't stayed the same. I still trust CGC's grading and felt CBCS was decent as well but CBCS sucks in other areas especially customer service. Another thing was how fast this grading was done. It was received on 7-8 and shipped on 7-15. I sent in some economy tier GA books and also a magazine submission as well as lobby cards (my first for this). So maybe harsher in grading now? I don't know but consistency is all that I want like many others have said. Doll Man #5 -- PGX 7.0 white to CGC 6.0 white Captain Video #1 CBCS 4.0 ow/w to CGC 3.5 ow/w Wings #13 CBCS 5.5 ow/w to CGC 5.5 ow/w Fight #43 PGX 7.0 ow/w to CGC 6.5 ow/w Captain Marvel Jr. #115 CBCS 3.0 white to CGC 2.5 white Jungle #90 CBCS 8.0 ow/w to CGC 7.5 ow/w Jungle #76 CBCS 8.0 ow/w to CGC 7.0 ow/w Jungle #67 CBCS 7.0 ow to CGC 6.0 ow Jungle #82 CBCS 8.0 ow/w to CGC 7.5 ow/w Jungle #59 CBCS 8.5 cr/ow to CGC 7.5 cr/ow Funny, when they had the send competitors books in and have them re graded by CGC for cheap, a lot from what I saw were getting higher grades, now they're getting lower again, lol. telerites 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telerites Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, VintageComics said: I would assume newer graders work on lower tier levels and if the grading is tighter in those tiers, it may be because new graders may also be more interested in finding defects with an eagle eye than actually grading the book as a whole (I've mentioned this several times over the years). So it would be interesting to know which grading tiers people are experiencing grading tightness as this would probably be a clue that would help identify a trend. If true, that would disappoint me that newbie graders grade lower tiers, Roy. Not much of a process to ensure consistent grading. In my opinion, it shouldn't matter what tier a book is subbed under, the grading should be consistent. A book that is graded as 9.0, say, under the standard tier should be the same as one under economy. I thought what you were paying extra for was the insurance for a higher valued book and the speed of grading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, telerites said: If true, that would disappoint me that newbie graders grade lower tiers, Roy. Not much of a process to ensure consistent grading. In my opinion, it shouldn't matter what tier a book is subbed under, the grading should be consistent. A book that is graded as 9.0, say, under the standard tier should be the same as one under economy. I thought what you were paying extra for was the insurance for a higher valued book and the speed of grading. I don't disagree. And I don't know for sure whether this is the case or not. I'm just hypothesizing. But it is reasonable to assume the the more experienced graders work on more expensive tiers while newer graders would work on cheaper tiers. And this is not a knock on any graders...but it may be something to consider as to why the inconsistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telerites Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, VintageComics said: I don't disagree. And I don't know for sure whether this is the case or not. I'm just hypothesizing. I know. I should have made sure I know you stated you assumed. Didn't intent to imply you were stating it as a fact. My bad on lack of clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 3 hours ago, VintageComics said: I think this is a myth that's been perpetuated. I've been using onsite grading since it's been around and in my experience it's just as hit and miss as Sarasota grading. I've had extremely tight submissions come back onsite where I've had to crack the majority of books and resubmit them and I've had some good experiences as well. In fact my last few experiences were tight in my opinion. I will say that I think Matt has helped consistency greatly - we've had conversations and I think I've noticed more consistency since Matt has been on board. Just an opinion though. Not trying to be a wise guy, but which do you think it is, a myth or something that has tightened up since Matt took over? Or are you saying it was hit and miss before Matt took over, but NOW it's tightened up and seems more consistent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Prince Namor said: Not trying to be a wise guy, but which do you think it is, a myth or something that has tightened up since Matt took over? Or are you saying it was hit and miss before Matt took over, but NOW it's tightened up and seems more consistent? I think it's a myth that onsite is loose just because it's onsite. I think Matt has tried to put controls into place to increase consistency over all both in Sarasota and onsite, but both are subject to variance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 9 hours ago, 1Cool said: If you have to use a black light to see a defect then I see that as being too tightly graded. It’s one thing to turn the book in 100 angles to see defects but if you have to use black lights and magnifying loops to pick out defects then you are trying too hard to see things. In most cases graders just use their eyes. They'll only use a loupe when absolutely necessary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 5 hours ago, telerites said: If true, that would disappoint me that newbie graders grade lower tiers, Roy. Not much of a process to ensure consistent grading. In my opinion, it shouldn't matter what tier a book is subbed under, the grading should be consistent. A book that is graded as 9.0, say, under the standard tier should be the same as one under economy. I thought what you were paying extra for was the insurance for a higher valued book and the speed of grading. This is a good point. But in my experience, newer graders are often assigned the lower value tiers for a number of reasons. For example, grading valuable vintage books requires not just good eyesight but careful handling. So until someone can be trusted not to due inadvertent damage to more valuable books, they must first display the proper skills on books with less importance. Just like any other job, you start at the bottom and work your way up... D84 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 2 hours ago, VintageComics said: I think it's a myth that onsite is loose just because it's onsite. I think Matt has tried to put controls into place to increase consistency over all both in Sarasota and onsite, but both are subject to variance. I think you're correct, but not all graders see things the same way on any given book. Even among the top graders there can be differences of opinion. And grading onsite offers a whole different set of challenges. The lighting is different, the circumstances can vary and the hours are exceedingly long. These are all factors which can influence the graders... D84 and VintageComics 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 9 hours ago, joeypost said: I think ( and this is just an opinion of mine) that things like that are discovered during the restoration check. Many times restoration is discovered by the graders and pre-graders, since they're often the first ones to see the books. And many times, they discover it with no additional tools... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDKR Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Hi folks i was curious about the books that were submitted from other companies to cgc. Those books were sent in their respective cases? If so i read that cgc states that you are not guaranteed the same grade and that the grade may come back lower. Isnt that a bit arrogant on their part? I dont think i would submit those books in their cases. I would just crack them out and submit them. It seems like they are purposely grading them lower so that in peoples minds they see the lower grades and think that these other companies do not grade accurately. It is like a punishment. Haljordanfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telerites Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, The Lions Den said: This is a good point. But in my experience, newer graders are often assigned the lower value tiers for a number of reasons. For example, grading valuable vintage books requires not just good eyesight but careful handling. So until someone can be trusted not to due inadvertent damage to more valuable books, they must first display the proper skills on books with less importance. Just like any other job, you start at the bottom and work your way up... I agree that companies start employees at lower levels. My first day I was put on the front desk trying to answer questions about unemployment insurance, employment, research statistics. Granted, I would hope CGC gave more training than that and also when I started with state government, it was in the mid 80s so things have changed. Regardless though, I would hope a graded with similar standards (albeit with the recognition of subjectivity) and hopefully graders are assessed on their grading based on their job specifications. I am not saying CGC doesn't do this nor am I saying that CGC grading is tighter now but I do think based on anecdotal observations and the chart shown that grading has fluctuated. If the inference is that one needs to submit at a higher tier (even though items qualify at lower tiers) to receive more consistent grading, I do feel that is appropriate. One should expect the same level of service across the organization. Does this happen, of course not, and it usually always a work in progress for proactive companies which i hope CGC is. CGC is the only choice for me for several reasons but that doesn't mean I think they are perfect and have no room for improvement. Edited July 19, 2020 by telerites The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjonahjameson11 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 On 7/15/2020 at 7:23 PM, Red_Hood said: I'm seeing the increase of harsher grading on the Copper and Modern books mainly. I have a few theories on this agenda from an economics standpoint but nothing that can be sustantiated but it would make sense from a grading company's standpoint to do so. I have so many 9.8's sitting in my inventory that don't even come close to being as nice as the 9.4 and 9.6's I've recently received. Where I used to get 20-22 books graded 9.8 in a 25 book submisson I'm now seeing maybe 2 to 4 books out of 25 getting 9.8 on the 1st submission. This! the grading has become so incredibly harsh over the past 5-6 months that I’ve stopped submitting books. not just that, but on site grading was also harsh at shows just before covid19. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callaway29 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 I’m my experience it’s not just Copper/modern. I was getting hammered on gold/silver too. That, coupled with the TAT’s, I also stopped submitting. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttock Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 22 hours ago, VintageComics said: I will say that I think Matt has helped consistency greatly - we've had conversations and I think I've noticed more consistency since Matt has been on board. Just an opinion though. Not only consistency, but accuracy also. I love the other guys, but they were looser than most collectors. Especially in that horrible window before Matt came on and nobody knew who was grading. Matt has a standard more consistent with the collectors I know, at least for vintage stuff. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNerdyCanuck Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 I have cut my submissions by 90% The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 9 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said: This! the grading has become so incredibly harsh over the past 5-6 months that I’ve stopped submitting books. not just that, but on site grading was also harsh at shows just before covid19. Perhaps this information will eventually find it's way to the grading room... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 hour ago, kav said: I have cut my submissions by 90% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 8 hours ago, Callaway29 said: I’m my experience it’s not just Copper/modern. I was getting hammered on gold/silver too. That, coupled with the TAT’s, I also stopped submitting. I'm sorry to hear this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
