How much of a premium are we paying for newsstand editions? 3 3

[paqart]

1 hour ago, divad said:

Just curious, when did Marvel adopt that stoopid Red Banner on the bottom of the FC? I don't think I own a SINGLE book of that flavor . . . 

There are some great covers with that banner, such as Deadpool #1 (2013?), many Superior Spider-Man, Superior Foes of Spider-Man, Daredevil, and Uncanny X-Men.

[divad]

18 minutes ago, paqart said:

1 hour ago, divad said:

Just curious, when did Marvel adopt that stoopid Red Banner on the bottom of the FC? I don't think I own a SINGLE book of that flavor . . . 

There are some great covers with that banner, such as Deadpool #1 (2013?), many Superior Spider-Man, Superior Foes of Spider-Man, Daredevil, and Uncanny X-Men.

No doubt - I remember being pissed off when they first started putting UPCs on the FC . . . when it could have been easily put on the BC. But I guess the fact that they "sold" the BC to advertisers prevented that.

[Get Marwood & I]

11 hours ago, divad said:

11 hours ago, paqart said:

12 hours ago, divad said:

Just curious, when did Marvel adopt that stoopid Red Banner on the bottom of the FC? I don't think I own a SINGLE book of that flavor . . . 

There are some great covers with that banner, such as Deadpool #1 (2013?), many Superior Spider-Man, Superior Foes of Spider-Man, Daredevil, and Uncanny X-Men.

No doubt - I remember being pissed off when they first started putting UPCs on the FC . . . when it could have been easily put on the BC. But I guess the fact that they "sold" the BC to advertisers prevented that.

I think they started to appear from cover date December 2012. I understand the appeal of an uncluttered central image but I've always quite liked the cover dressings in a way. They're part of the medium, the history of comics. I don't think anyone was thinking about the defacement of high art when barcodes were introduced! Maybe they should have, but then we wouldn't have all the wonderful variations that different cover dressings can bring. Returning to the red banners, I liked the fact that subsequent printings were colour coded - they had a pleasing uniformity when you lined them up. Blue for second print, green for third etc (although that consistency slipped occasionally....)

 

[paqart]

Update to the topic: A 9.8 CGC copy of newsstand Hulk #16 (2008) just sold for $798 on eBay. The highest price for a direct edition is $82. Several other directs have sold for within 25% of that price. There are no comparables for newsstand sales. Therefore, that issue went for almost a 10x premium over the highest available direct price. It also went for more than quadruple the $160  Mile High Comics NM price for a newsstand edition of that issue.

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by paqart

[ADAMANTIUM]

4 minutes ago, paqart said:

Update to the topic: A 9.8 CGC copy of newsstand Hulk #16 (2008) just sold for $798 on eBay. The highest price for a direct edition is $82. Several other directs have sold for within 25% of that price. There are no comparables for newsstand sales. Therefore, that issue went for almost a 10x premium over the highest available direct price. It also went for more than quadruple the $160  Mile High Comics NM price for a newsstand edition of that issue.

 

Yet this happened to me 

I bid on #2 as well, and #1, which I already own in 9.4 sold for cheaper than #2

In fact my top bid on #2 would have outbid the winning bid on #1 

I bid $206 and got way outbid, I hoped for discussion in the modern Newsstand thread

 

[paqart]

13 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Yet this happened to me 

I bid on #2 as well, and #1, which I already own in 9.4 sold for cheaper than #2

In fact my top bid on #2 would have outbid the winning bid on #1 

I bid $206 and got way outbid, I hoped for discussion in the modern Newsstand thread

 

 

 

I bid on all three as well. The price differences appear more related to their grades than the issues. I already have the #1 in very high grade (at CGC now), so I figured I'd pay a reasonable price for the 9.2 as a backup copy but not a premium price. The #2 and #16 went well above my comfort zone, though I really wanted the #16. I have a copy with another on the way, but the one in hand is mid-grade and the one I just bought is raw and I haven't seen it yet so I'm not sure what it's grade is. The 16 (and #15) have been very hard to find, something other collectors have likely discovered as well.

My availability index score for the 9.8 # 16 is n/365, meaning none in any given year. For a #16 in any condition, it is about -80/80.

Edited June 1, 2021 by paqart

[fastballspecial]

Slight premiums are being paid across the board currently. Stupid money doesnt come out until you hit around 2002 and up. Thats when they really get harder to find and high grade as well.

Paying big money for an early 80s newsstand book baring a few rare examples is money that wont return as much value later.

Edited June 1, 2021 by fastballspecial

[paqart]

On 6/1/2021 at 11:57 AM, fastballspecial said:

Slight premiums are being paid across the board currently. Stupid money doesnt come out until you hit around 2002 and up. Thats when they really get harder to find and high grade as well.

Paying big money for an early 80s newsstand book baring a few rare examples is money that wont return as much value later.

Agreed, and yet, we have examples of when it is worth it anyway. When I started buying newsstands, I wasn't aware of how much more difficult they are to find after 1999 or so. My first purchase was a CGC 9.4 newsstand copy of Teen Titans #2 for $200. I later regretted the purchase because I discovered that the newsstand and direct editions are about evenly represented in the marketplace. It seems to be worth around $300 now, so it wasn't a total loss, but not as good as some other purchases. I also bought about 3x to 4x copies of ASM #298, 299, and 301, and one copy of 316 in conditions ranging from 9.2-9.6, all for around $50-$75 each. Those have all shot up in value despite the fact that the newsstand editions of those issues, though less common than directs, aren't that uncommon.

I've avoided paying the very high prices (meaning, "above $200") for modern newsstands, though I am getting tempted as the pickings thin out. I just paid a little over $200 for an early slabbed newsstand from the eighties, Swamp Thing 25, but it is the Canadian version, so I felt its rarity is more similar to a modern newsstand because Canadian editions are a small subset of the total pool of newsstands.

Edited June 2, 2021 by paqart

[paqart]

Here's a little price increase: ASM 607 NS edition, CGC 9.8 sold about a month ago for $1,999. A 7.0 of the same issue went for a couple hundred. Looks like there is a premium for these things, and the premium is going up, not down.

X-Men 128, CGC 9.8: NS= $1,111 compared to direct= $129.99 (or $192.45/Signed)

Daredevil 9 (1998), CGC 9.8: NS= $1,299, direct= $275

ASM 299, CGC 9.8: NS= $2,995 direct= $459

ASM 298, CGC 9.8: NS= $3,500, direct= $574.99

[mrwoogieman]

I buy post-2000 newsies of issues I would never buy a direct copy of, so $1-2 more than $0. Is that an infinite newsie premium?!?

 

 

[paqart]

On 10/23/2023 at 7:02 PM, mrwoogieman said:

I buy post-2000 newsies of issues I would never buy a direct copy of, so $1-2 more than $0. Is that an infinite newsie premium?!?

 

 

I guess it would be, but on a zero starting price, not relevant to this conversation. I remember when this discussion started a couple years ago, some people expressed the view that there either wasn't a premium for newsstand comics, the premium was an illusion, or it was "an insufficiently_thoughtful_person premium" for people who didn't understand value.

What recent prices tell us that it isn't an illusion, and if it's for "insufficiently_thoughtful_persons" they are making money on the delusion, if it is in fact a delusion. A better explanation is that the premium is real and substantial enough to take into consideration when buying or selling. Personally, I'm quite happy with the 1,500 or so NS edition comics I bought over the past couple of years.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 10/24/2023 at 9:44 PM, paqart said:

I guess it would be, but on a zero starting price, not relevant to this conversation. I remember when this discussion started a couple years ago, some people expressed the view that there either wasn't a premium for newsstand comics, the premium was an illusion, or it was "an insufficiently_thoughtful_person premium" for people who didn't understand value.

What recent prices tell us that it isn't an illusion, and if it's for "insufficiently_thoughtful_persons" they are making money on the delusion, if it is in fact a delusion. A better explanation is that the premium is real and substantial enough to take into consideration when buying or selling. Personally, I'm quite happy with the 1,500 or so NS edition comics I bought over the past couple of years.

I think just be bringing the subject up, you change the equation. Certainly there are some people out there that don't care one way or the other, but figuring that other people do, will pick up Newsstand Editions because they think other people see value in them, even if they don't themselves.

[fastballspecial]

On 10/22/2023 at 11:52 PM, paqart said:

Here's a little price increase: ASM 607 NS edition, CGC 9.8 sold about a month ago for $1,999. A 7.0 of the same issue went for a couple hundred. Looks like there is a premium for these things, and the premium is going up, not down.

X-Men 128, CGC 9.8: NS= $1,111 compared to direct= $129.99 (or $192.45/Signed)

Daredevil 9 (1998), CGC 9.8: NS= $1,299, direct= $275

ASM 299, CGC 9.8: NS= $2,995 direct= $459

ASM 298, CGC 9.8: NS= $3,500, direct= $574.99

298 and 299 I would never pay that difference. The prints runs are too close during that period. 
Even if you argue the high grade is hard to come by there is an abundance of that book that over
time the price will decline. 

The two books above have a much limited print run and copies in that high grade should
have a premium attached. Although they do not have the demand which may also be a 
factor in 299 and 298 I will concede.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by fastballspecial

[Mr. Spider-Woman]

Sales of a single graded 9.8 comic doesn't tell us much. It could be as simple as a collector wanted a copy and that was the only one for sale and they didn't care how much it cost. 

It would take a huge amount of time and energy for someone to chart sales of newsstand and direct editions over multiple years to determine whether newsstand copies (graded or raw) are commanding a premium. I think if there was a significant increase in prices for newsstand copies in the market, someone would notice. I'm sure there are people tracking sales of certain titles or characters. 

I know I haven't paid much more than cover price for any newsstand issues of various Fantastic Four titles for my collection. Maybe if I get down to only needing a handful I'll consider paying a premium to finish off a specific run or title.

[paqart]

On 10/25/2023 at 12:11 PM, fastballspecial said:

298 and 299 I would never pay that difference. The prints runs are too close during that period. 
Even if you argue the high grade is hard to come by there is an abundance of that book that over
time the price will decline. 

The two books above have a much limited print run and copies in that high grade should
have a premium attached. Although they do not have the demand which may also be a 
factor in 299 and 298 I will concede.

 

 

Keep in mind that the point here isn't whether you would pay the difference. The point is that others have, and they keep on doing it. That establishes price norms for these comics. Those norms tell us that a substantial premium of around 400%-500% is not unusual for high demand newsstand issues.

[paqart]

On 10/25/2023 at 5:36 PM, Mr. Spider-Woman said:

Sales of a single graded 9.8 comic doesn't tell us much. It could be as simple as a collector wanted a copy and that was the only one for sale and they didn't care how much it cost. 

It would take a huge amount of time and energy for someone to chart sales of newsstand and direct editions over multiple years to determine whether newsstand copies (graded or raw) are commanding a premium. I think if there was a significant increase in prices for newsstand copies in the market, someone would notice. I'm sure there are people tracking sales of certain titles or characters. 

I know I haven't paid much more than cover price for any newsstand issues of various Fantastic Four titles for my collection. Maybe if I get down to only needing a handful I'll consider paying a premium to finish off a specific run or title.

These samples are of single graded comics, but that doesn't mean these aren't being tracked. I am tracking them, though not assiduously, and can say there have been multiple sales like this, with the trend showing steadily increasing prices for newsstands that exceeds the price increase for their direct counterparts.

As for whether people "notice," I've noticed, as have others in this forum. At present, low prices for uninteresting newsstands tend to be around $10, where the direct is $1.00 or so. The range for most post 2000 newsstands is around $10-$30, but reach very high values for special interest issues. There are still bargains to be found, but it takes longer to find them than it did a couple years ago, and the prices are usually higher.

As for non-bargains, the highest premium I've paid is about 1000% for a CGC 9.6 ASM price variant from 2000.

Edited October 25, 2023 by paqart

[paqart]

On 10/25/2023 at 10:28 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

I think just be bringing the subject up, you change the equation. Certainly there are some people out there that don't care one way or the other, but figuring that other people do, will pick up Newsstand Editions because they think other people see value in them, even if they don't themselves.

THis is a bit like saying that there are people who don't see the value difference between FF #1 (1961) and any of the later reissue #1's from the series. That doesn't make the original #1 less valuable. It just creates bargains in the hands of people who don't "believe in" the value of the originals.

I long time ago, I was asked to price a complete set of ASM. At the time (1978), the set included issues #1-about 160 or so. I priced it at $3,000, and suggested the buyer offer about $1,500. He did it, but the seller didn't "believe in" the value, so he negotiated the price down to trade for $75 worth of paperback books from the store. That seller was an honest man who didn't want to take advantage of the store. He wouldn't have, but didn't know it, because he didn't understand the value.

For me, the newsstand editions are more than a barcode (or a modified barcode in later decades). The represent a distribution method that I have some nostalgia for and a method more likely to result in the destruction of the comics. On top of that, they are much less common. As a kid, I enjoyed hunting for the comics I wanted in book stores, garage sales, and other venues. I didn't realize I was experiencing the thrill of the hunt, but that is what was going on. Now that we can find seemingly anything online, the thrill of the hunt is gone, except for very rare items. Newsstands fulfill this criteria, which attaches real value to them.

 

[Lazyboy]

On 10/25/2023 at 9:28 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

I think just be bringing the subject up, you change the equation. Certainly there are some people out there that don't care one way or the other, but figuring that other people do, will pick up Newsstand Editions because they think other people see value in them, even if they don't themselves.

Current prices are a self-fulfilling prophecy. Unfortunately, the prophets are actually lying hucksters.

[Lazyboy]

On 10/25/2023 at 4:36 PM, Mr. Spider-Woman said:

I know I haven't paid much more than cover price for any newsstand issues of various Fantastic Four titles for my collection.

But you only acquire an issue or two per year because they're so impossible to find that they practically don't exist, right?

[Lazyboy]

On 10/25/2023 at 6:35 PM, paqart said:

At present, low prices for uninteresting newsstands tend to be around $10, where the direct is $1.00 or so. The range for most post 2000 newsstands is around $10-$30

What?