CPVs versus UK/Pence Comics 3 3

[comicginger1789]

I understand this hobby has many niches which is great but this one seems on the rise and I’m curious...why the love for Canadian price covers?

And moreover why has there always been ZERO love for UK/Pence copies of older Marvel books? 

As a Canadian, I can walk into any comic shop here and thumb through back issues and find these CPVs. Granted they aren’t always on key issues but they certainly exist and can be found. Is this the same for collectors in the UK with older books? I mean surely they aren’t as plentifully being from the Silver and Bronze Age? Or are they? Why then do collectors turn their noses up at keys with UK pricing on them while paying up for Canadian price variant keys? I would assume the UK stuff is much much more scarce (I need someone overseas to confirm this though).

It just seems odd to me and a bit backwards....

Edited July 21, 2020 by comicginger1789

[mec3437]

So, I love collecting pence and CPV books.  I actually just completed my X-Factor run of CPVs yesterday with a package from Manitoba, and I have another coming with Dakota North #1 and 2 from Quebec.  Nothing fancy, but I find them neat.  Truthfully, I started doing the CPV thing after I finished my runs of various X-titles.  So, I figured why not do pence and CPV runs for them as well.

Getting back to your question, and these answers are purely anecdotal from what I've seen and should not be taken as scientific by any means.  There seems to have been some confusion early on regarding pence copies.  The confusion being if they were reprints or first prints.  If you look at the index of a let's say Uncanny X-Men #100, you'll find that the index of the UK price variant matches with the US cents priced version (usually, as there could be exceptions).  All of the ads are the same as well, with everything being listed in US prices.  Another reason I've seen for some collectors not wanting them has more to do with continuity.  By that, I mean they don't want to have a totally different currency in the middle of their run.  Comic books are seen as an American thing, so having the US priced copies can be seen as more desirable.  The CPVs are noted in dollar and cents signs, so for all intents and purposes, they look "normal".  I think the attitude towards some of the pence stuff is changing, and some of the issues, especially the early pence copies, can be a pain in the neck to find.  If you find them in super high grade (9.4 and up) then you might be paying a premium since they don't always pop up.  

Edited July 21, 2020 by mec3437

[rakehell]

6 hours ago, comicginger1789 said:

I understand this hobby has many niches which is great but this one seems on the rise and I’m curious...why the love for Canadian price covers?

And moreover why has there always been ZERO love for UK/Pence copies of older Marvel books? 

As a Canadian, I can walk into any comic shop here and thumb through back issues and find these CPVs. Granted they aren’t always on key issues but they certainly exist and can be found. Is this the same for collectors in the UK with older books? I mean surely they aren’t as plentifully being from the Silver and Bronze Age? Or are they? Why then do collectors turn their noses up at keys with UK pricing on them while paying up for Canadian price variant keys? I would assume the UK stuff is much much more scarce (I need someone overseas to confirm this though).

I think it has to do with the fact that the vast bulk of collectors prefer their comics with a US price point because they feel it's more original. The love for Canadian price covers is possibly due to something as basic as the fact that Canada uses dollars, so the CAD covers look the same as the USD covers. CAD covers are more rare, hence, more desirable. In the UK, there are generally more pence variants available for run-of-the-mill issues, especially with the Bronze Age Marvels, but key Silver Age books are scarce in high grades. Either way, nobody wants them (or nearly nobody). Collectors here mostly prefer the 'original' cents copies.

6 hours ago, comicginger1789 said:

It just seems odd to me and a bit backwards....

It is very odd and more than a bit backwards, but whadayagonnado?

[comicginger1789]

I just see a lot of people on sites and others social media platforms really trying to upsell Canadian price comics. To my knowledge it was not like this ten years ago. Oh sure I’m sure a handful of collectors were buying them but probably weren’t paying much more at all for them.

They money thing and looking “normal” makes cents though. 

[Get Marwood & I]

57 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

They money thing and looking “normal” makes cents though. 

I'm hoping that was deliberate Eric 

[rakehell]

1 hour ago, comicginger1789 said:

I just see a lot of people on sites and others social media platforms really trying to upsell Canadian price comics. To my knowledge it was not like this ten years ago. Oh sure I’m sure a handful of collectors were buying them but probably weren’t paying much more at all for them.

You should collect pence variants. They're sooo cheap. 

[mec3437]

7 minutes ago, rakehell said:

You should collect pence variants. They're sooo cheap. 

Don't let the secret out!  

[comicginger1789]

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I'm hoping that was deliberate Eric 

Everything I do is deliberate

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/21/2020 at 2:37 PM, comicginger1789 said:

Everything I do is deliberate

Of course!

On 7/21/2020 at 4:50 AM, comicginger1789 said:

I understand this hobby has many niches which is great but this one seems on the rise and I’m curious...why the love for Canadian price covers?

And moreover why has there always been ZERO love for UK/Pence copies of older Marvel books? 

As a Canadian, I can walk into any comic shop here and thumb through back issues and find these CPVs. Granted they aren’t always on key issues but they certainly exist and can be found. Is this the same for collectors in the UK with older books? I mean surely they aren’t as plentifully being from the Silver and Bronze Age? Or are they? Why then do collectors turn their noses up at keys with UK pricing on them while paying up for Canadian price variant keys? I would assume the UK stuff is much much more scarce (I need someone overseas to confirm this though).

It just seems odd to me and a bit backwards....

Some interesting points you raise there Eric. I'll expand on the theme a little in my reply if I may.

We're not too different in many respects. You can go into your Canadian shop and pick up CPVs, I can go into one of my UK shops and pick up UKPVs. For Marvel - let's face it, pretty much the only publisher anyone cares about lately - the majority of UKPVs are available if you look. Only the older ones can be hard to find, especially for less well known titles, for obvious reasons. The older UKPVs fit into one of two brackets in my experience. There are the key mainstream titles, issues and characters like Amazing Spidey, AF15 etc which get people interested in cents and pence, and I'm seeing some very healthy pence sales lately for them. Then there are the lesser collected titles. I can provide anecdotal evidence that a title like My Girl Pearl is non-existent in pence and that the surviving copies may number less than five. No one gives a monkeys. The scarcity does not catapult the book to high worth status because no one cares about it. People only know it exists because of people like me who value them from a historians perspective.

Pretty much everything important about the comic characters we love, and those that have since been immortalised on screen, happened in the 60's and the pence copies of the key books of that age do get a lot of interest now albeit they still stop short of realising US copy prices. That said, in the main, Americans don't like pence copies and never have. Ditto most UK collectors, who value the purity of cents copies over their own priced books. It's true that there are still US collectors who think UKPVs are reprints but they are in the minority now I think. Indeed, there is nothing left to know about pence copies now, if you are prepared to search and read. If you read my threads here on the CGC boards you'll see that I have exhausted every nuance, every feature, every scenario that relates to them. Prices, stamps, distribution, indicias, what exists etc etc. There is nothing left to know. I've researched everything. I even got CGC to label the damn things correctly, not that anyone here cared.

I have always stated that I have posted here out of a love for the medium, a longing for the past and a love of research. I don't really care myself whether pence copies are valued or despised by the majority. I just care enough to want to get as much information documented about them before time moves on, they disintegrate and literally no one cares. 

If you feel Canadians are on the rise comparatively, that is great. And it makes sense too, as - as has been pointed out many times - they share a common currency with their US cousins. For every collector who seeks them for what they are there is another who doesn't even realise it's not a US copy. I've always thought that the person who is really passionate about comics will want to explore new avenues once their run is complete. Canadian copies are a great next step to keep the flame burning. And some do extend also to pence copies (only the really mad ones go as far as Australians though). But they are in the minority in my experience and do not post on this forum in any great numbers. 

So in summary, more people probably care about Canadians than pence for the reasons stated by others and here in my post. I don't see that changing as I personally believe the hobby is in it's death throes, certainly in the UK. Here, comic shops are next to non existent. Comic shops with back issues scarcer still. With one notable exception, the online dealers never seem to post any new stock. It's eBay and fairs. And eBay is full of sellers who can't take pictures, grade or package reasonably. The fairs have been in decline for years (will they even return?) Comics seem to be going the way of vinyl records and book shops. When I was a kid, Elvis Presley memorabilia was a thing. Now, those that cherish him are mostly dead and no one cares anymore. There was a golden age of American comics in the UK for 20 or so years from the mid 1960s. It's over. They were great years, but they are in the past. Nothing has a divine right to exist of course and there will come a time when the hobby will die out just as other hobbies have. I doubt that kids will reach adulthood in 30 years time and crave the rubbish that Marvel turns out today, certainly when the books themselves are not even available in newsagents and supermarkets - just those niche shops that few towns have one of. No one will want to collect the eighty six thousand different X-Men titles that have been pumped out in recent years. Comics fit their time and that time is over. The comics of today bear no relation to those simple but charming comics of our past.

Scarcity only matters financially if the item that is scarce is cherished by enough people. And, whilst it pains me to say it (I might get more interest in my threads if it wasn't the case), not enough people cherish pence books. 

[comicginger1789]

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Of course!

Some interesting points you raise there Eric. I'll expand on the theme a little in my reply if I may.

We're not too different in many respects. You can go into your Canadian shop and pick up CPVs, I can go into one of my UK shops and pick up UKPVs. For Marvel - let's face it, pretty much the only publisher anyone cares about lately - the majority of UKPVs are available if you look. Only the older ones can be hard to find, especially for less well known titles, for obvious reasons. The older UKPVs fit into one of two brackets in my experience. There are the key mainstream titles, issues and characters like Amazing Spidey, AF15 etc which get people interested in cents and pence, and I'm seeing some very healthy pence sales lately for them. Then there are the lesser collected titles. I can provide anecdotal evidence that a title like My Girl Pearl is non-existent in pence and that the surviving copies may number less than five. No one gives a monkeys. The scarcity does not catapult the book to high worth status because no one cares about it. People only know it exists because of people like me who value them from a historians perspective.

Pretty much everything important about the comic characters we love, and those that have since been immortalised on screen, happened in the 60's and the pence copies of the key books of that age do get a lot of interest now albeit they still stop short of realising US copy prices. That said, in the main, Americans don't like pence copies and never have. Ditto most UK collectors, who value the purity of cents copies over their own priced books. It's true that there are still US collectors who think UKPVs are reprints but they are in the minority now I think. Indeed, there is nothing left to know about pence copies now, if you are prepared to search and read. If you read my threads here on the CGC boards you'll see that I have exhausted every nuance, every feature, every scenario that relates to them. Prices, stamps, distribution, indicias, what exists etc etc. There is nothing left to know. I've researched everything. I even got CGC to label the damn things correctly, not that anyone here cared.

I have always stated that I have posted here out of a love for the medium, a longing for the past and a love of research. I don't really care myself whether pence copies are valued or despised by the majority. I just care enough to want to get as much information documented about them before time moves on, they disintegrate and literally no one cares. 

If you feel Canadians are on the rise comparatively, that is great. And it makes sense too, as - as has been pointed out many times - they share a common currency with their US cousins. For every collector who seeks them for what they are there is another who doesn't even realise it's not a US copy. I've always thought that the person who is really passionate about comics will want to explore new avenues once their run is complete. Canadian copies are a great next step to keep the flame burning. And some do extend also to pence copies (only the really mad ones go as far as Australians though). But they are in the minority in my experience and do not post on this forum in any great numbers. 

So in summary, more people probably care about Canadians than pence for the reasons stated by others and here in my post. I don't see that changing as I personally believe the hobby is in it's death throes, certainly in the UK. Here, comic shops are next to non existent. Comic shops with back issues scarcer still. With one notable exception, the online dealers never seem to post any new stock. It's eBay and fairs. And eBay is full of sellers who can't take pictures, grade or package reasonably. The fairs have been in decline for years (will they even return?) Comics seem to be going the way of vinyl records and book shops. When I was a kid, Elvis Presley memorabilia was a thing. Now, those that cherish him are mostly dead and no one cares anymore. There was a golden age of American comics in the UK for 20 or so years from the mid 1960s. It's over. They were great years, buy they are in the past. Nothing has a divine right to exist of course and there will come a time when the hobby will die out just as other hobbies have. I doubt that kids will reach adulthood in 30 years time and crave the rubbish that Marvel turns out today, certainly when the books themselves are not even available in newsagents and supermarkets - just those niche shops that few towns have one of. No one will want to collect the eighty six thousand different X-Men titles that have been pumped out in recent years. Comics fit their time and that time is over. The comics of today bear no relation to those simple but charming comics of our past.

Scarcity only matters financially if the item that is scarce is cherished by enough people. And, whilst it pains me to say it (I might get more interest in my threads if it wasn't the case), not enough people cherish pence books. 

Well put. If no one has ever thanked you for the research you’ve done, let me say thank you. As someone who has recently within the last five years started to venture into the niche world, learning stuff about price variants and NDI and MJ inserts. It is great stuff and I think it is a good thing if Canadian price copies get interest so that someone can take on that bit of history.

[Get Marwood & I]

6 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

Well put. If no one has ever thanked you for the research you’ve done, let me say thank you. As someone who has recently within the last five years started to venture into the niche world, learning stuff about price variants and NDI and MJ inserts. It is great stuff and I think it is a good thing if Canadian price copies get interest so that someone can take on that bit of history.

Most kind. I've had a nod or two Eric, from the list of the lost. Nothing to write home about mind, but at the end of the day it gets dark. And besides, when all is said and done, who really gives a focaccia?

[comicginger1789]

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Most kind. I've had a nod or two Eric, from the list of the lost. Nothing to write home about mind, but at the end of the day it gets dark. And besides, when all is said and done, who really gives a focaccia?

I enjoy a good focaccia! And even if I was the only one I’d still eat it:) If you enjoyed doing it then it was worth it!

Edited July 21, 2020 by comicginger1789

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

I enjoy a good focaccia! And even if I was the only one I’d still eat it:) If you enjoyed doing it then it was worth it!

I did, and it was 

[Lazyboy]

Canadian Newsstand editions are even better than regular Newsstand editions, because they're even more rare than the already superultramegarare regular Newsstands! [/stupidityandhype]

[Get Marwood & I]

29 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Canadian Newsstand editions are even better than regular Newsstand editions, because they're even more rare than the already superultramegarare regular Newsstands! [/stupidityandhype]

[serling1978]

On 7/21/2020 at 6:17 AM, rakehell said:

I think it has to do with the fact that the vast bulk of collectors prefer their comics with a US price point because they feel it's more original. The love for Canadian price covers is possibly due to something as basic as the fact that Canada uses dollars, so the CAD covers look the same as the USD covers. CAD covers are more rare, hence, more desirable. In the UK, there are generally more pence variants available for run-of-the-mill issues, especially with the Bronze Age Marvels, but key Silver Age books are scarce in high grades. Either way, nobody wants them (or nearly nobody). Collectors here mostly prefer the 'original' cents copies.

It is very odd and more than a bit backwards, but whadayagonnado?

I don't get the mindset that US priced books are "more original" than UK priced books. That's not directed at you specifically, I know a lot of people feel that same way, but we know now that that's just simply not true. 

To me the negative stigma for pence copies is rooted in decades old confusion about the originality of the books and if they were reprints, not part of the original print run, etc. Sure today we know that's not the case, but ideology like that is slow to change. That's just human nature.  The idea has overtly or subliminally been passed down to collectors over decades and has become ingrained as truth for many. I do think it will change over time, but slowly.  As the older generation of collectors die off (at age 43 I'm no spring chicken myself) the negative stigma could fade and be reframed for future collectors in decades to come. 

[rakehell]

On 2/6/2021 at 3:15 PM, serling1978 said:

I don't get the mindset that US priced books are "more original" than UK priced books. That's not directed at you specifically, I know a lot of people feel that same way, but we know now that that's just simply not true. 

I agree. I'll admit that when I first arrived in the UK, nearly 30 years ago, I didn't know what to make of them & leaned towards the reprint side of things. Of course, I know better now, but I've lived here for so long I've developed interests in loads of other foreign & UK editions anyway. The real issue is with awareness; most American collectors have no knowledge or interest in domestically printed comic books intended for foreign markets. To a significant percentage of collectors it just doesn't register.

On 2/6/2021 at 3:15 PM, serling1978 said:

To me the negative stigma for pence copies is rooted in decades old confusion about the originality of the books and if they were reprints, not part of the original print run, etc. Sure today we know that's not the case, but ideology like that is slow to change. That's just human nature.  The idea has overtly or subliminally been passed down to collectors over decades and has become ingrained as truth for many. I do think it will change over time, but slowly.  As the older generation of collectors die off (at age 43 I'm no spring chicken myself) the negative stigma could fade and be reframed for future collectors in decades to come. 

+1 on this.

[B2D327]

Simple. Us “Muricans” despise the fancy uk spelling of “colour” on books like this 

[comicginger1789]

3 minutes ago, B2D327 said:

Simple. Us “Muricans” despise the fancy uk spelling of “colour” on books like this 

But I’m Canadian and I still prefer the US versions....have I been Muricanized?!

Edited February 12, 2021 by comicginger1789

[Namtak]

Personnally i never turned down uk pence nor canadien,i like witman covers too .they are interesting for me ,are they interesting to everybody?answer is no.canadian price werent that hot  15 years ago.the interest seems to change from year to year .who knows one day what will be more sought about.i say enjoy what you like,thats what collecting is all about