Just Curious: Do signatures and remarks bleed through the cover? 1 1

[Xenosmilus]

Just Curious: Do signatures and remarks bleed through the cover? Anyone ever check?

[ivdyer]

10 hours ago, Xenosmilus said:

Just Curious: Do signatures and remarks bleed through the cover? Anyone ever check?

Yes, they can

[Keys_Collector]

Depends on the type of pen, the material of the cover and the force used by the person signing.

[Randall Ries]

I have to think this example probably bled through. The black sharpie bat in the moon. This kind of defacement makes me sad. Jokes on them, though. Book has been for sale for a long time. What a wreck...

[Xenosmilus]

I was sort of wondering if they put a piece of paper under the cover before they sign to absorb any bleed through to the splash page?

Edited July 27, 2020 by Xenosmilus

[Randall Ries]

6 minutes ago, Xenosmilus said:

I was sort of wondering if they put a piece of paper under the cover before they sign to absorb any bleed through to the splash page?

That's a good question. Anyone know? I would be equally concerned if it soaked through to the other side of the cover. That would be just as bad.

 

[Keys_Collector]

That's a very cool sketch but IMO doesn't belong on a book that's valued because of its fantastic cover.  The sketch actually takes away from the beauty of the cover.

[Xenosmilus]

Just now, Keys_Collector said:

That's a very cool sketch but IMO doesn't belong on a book that's valued because of its fantastic cover.  The sketch actually takes away from the beauty of the cover.

I agree on Sliver and Bronze covers but I do like Signatures and Remarks on my Secret Wars (1984) and McSpider-mans covers!

[Randall Ries]

On 7/27/2020 at 12:34 PM, Keys_Collector said:

That's a very cool sketch but IMO doesn't belong on a book that's valued because of its fantastic cover.  The sketch actually takes away from the beauty of the cover.

Yes. And a 9.6 to boot.

[seanfingh]

On 7/27/2020 at 12:26 PM, Randall Ries said:

That's a good question. Anyone know? I would be equally concerned if it soaked through to the other side of the cover. That would be just as bad.

 

No one does anything about bleed through.  Cover signatures are a 21st century thing for the most part, especially as it relates to Sharpies, paint pens, remarques etc. It will be many years before we know the real situation, and most if the evidence will come from raw books signed under the same circumstances because most Yellow labels are going to be entombed forever.

[Xenosmilus]

39 minutes ago, seanfingh said:

No one does anything about bleed through.  Cover signatures are a 21st century thing for the most part, especially as it relates to Sharpies, paint pens, remarques etc. It will be many years before we know the real situation, and most if the evidence will come from raw books signed under the same circumstances because most Yellow labels are going to be entombed forever.

The CGC graders should know this.

[Randall Ries]

2 hours ago, seanfingh said:

No one does anything about bleed through.  Cover signatures are a 21st century thing for the most part, especially as it relates to Sharpies, paint pens, remarques etc. It will be many years before we know the real situation, and most if the evidence will come from raw books signed under the same circumstances because most Yellow labels are going to be entombed forever.

Those thick headed Sharpies would seem to be the real threat for bleed through. Paint pens dry pretty quickly, I imagine. Like the illustration above...er...illustrates is Adams colored in the Bat emblem pretty thoroughly, dropping a lot of ink. So, yes. The only way to check is when the case needs replacing or the owner wants to change the piece of acid free whatever they use between the front cover and 1st page.

At least for older books, it is a more serious infraction and I avoid buying those books. As I imagine many collectors do. It must make reselling them a real problem. I can't imagine there is a huge market for high grade scribbly books. If I want a Neal Adams cameo, I'll buy one on a sheet of paper.

There was a Bat 232 CGC 9.6 SS for sale on ebay awhile ago. The cover was covered in Neal Adams signatures (2 or three) and Batman cameos and a huge Ra's Al Ghul full faced thing which engulf almost the whole cover. And for that, a buyer was required to shell out $8K.

CGC doesn't care. And apparently neither does Neal Adams. I guess if it were me and someone slid a book in that grade, age and significance at me and asked me to destroy it with a sharpie, I'd say "No way." At some point, money needs to stop being a consideration.

[Randall Ries]

Here's another:

[seanfingh]

2 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Those thick headed Sharpies would seem to be the real threat for bleed through. Paint pens dry pretty quickly, I imagine. Like the illustration above...er...illustrates is Adams colored in the Bat emblem pretty thoroughly, dropping a lot of ink. So, yes. The only way to check is when the case needs replacing or the owner wants to change the piece of acid free whatever they use between the front cover and 1st page.

At least for older books, it is a more serious infraction and I avoid buying those books. As I imagine many collectors do. It must make reselling them a real problem. I can't imagine there is a huge market for high grade scribbly books. If I want a Neal Adams cameo, I'll buy one on a sheet of paper.

There was a Bat 232 CGC 9.6 SS for sale on ebay awhile ago. The cover was covered in Neal Adams signatures (2 or three) and Batman cameos and a huge Ra's Al Ghul full faced thing which engulf almost the whole cover. And for that, a buyer was required to shell out $8K.

CGC doesn't care. And apparently neither does Neal Adams. I guess if it were me and someone slid a book in that grade, age and significance at me and asked me to destroy it with a sharpie, I'd say "No way." At some point, money needs to stop being a consideration.

Randall, I don't think you are wrong. But you should know I have gotten somewhere in the range of 1000 books signed, sketched and slabbed since 2007. I am a huge fan of the cover-signed signed comic book. Most of my books were from the Bronze and Copper era, where there is no scarcity of high grade copies, and there is no sense (to me) that anything historic has been irreparably changed. To me there is a balance that can only be answered by the individual's conscience - "Which is more important, one's right to do with one's property whatever one wants to, or the idea that these comics are historical documents and we are merely stewards for the time that we have them?"  At the extremes, both positions start to look a little silly, but there is a lot of gray in between.  When I was creating SS books, I honestly believed I would own them until I was no longer on this earth. That has not been the case.  Where I really feel conflicted is one someone gets a truly rare or even potentially unique book signed. The bell cannot be unrung.  I tended to do books where there were many. many copies available - although sometimes when I would do Bronze books I would occasionally get a 9.8 when there were very few blue label 9.8s.  At the end of the day, I tend to not like to tell people what to do with their stuff.

For reference - here is my Batman 232.

https://www.myslabbedcomics.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=4120&GSub=1792

[Randall Ries]

1 hour ago, seanfingh said:

Randall, I don't think you are wrong. But you should know I have gotten somewhere in the range of 1000 books signed, sketched and slabbed since 2007. I am a huge fan of the cover-signed signed comic book. Most of my books were from the Bronze and Copper era, where there is no scarcity of high grade copies, and there is no sense (to me) that anything historic has been irreparably changed. To me there is a balance that can only be answered by the individual's conscience - "Which is more important, one's right to do with one's property whatever one wants to, or the idea that these comics are historical documents and we are merely stewards for the time that we have them?"  At the extremes, both positions start to look a little silly, but there is a lot of gray in between.  When I was creating SS books, I honestly believed I would own them until I was no longer on this earth. That has not been the case.  Where I really feel conflicted is one someone gets a truly rare or even potentially unique book signed. The bell cannot be unrung.  I tended to do books where there were many. many copies available - although sometimes when I would do Bronze books I would occasionally get a 9.8 when there were very few blue label 9.8s.  At the end of the day, I tend to not like to tell people what to do with their stuff.

For reference - here is my Batman 232.

https://www.myslabbedcomics.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=4120&GSub=1792

Right on! That's a nice book! I had a 9.4 signed by Adams and Giordano.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not telling anyone what to do. I love signed books. I am on the cusp of finishing a set of signed Batman 608-619 (Hush). Just finished Neal Adam's Deadman run in Strange Adventures all signed.

What I have a problem with is neophytes bringing OLDER, high grade books in and having the artist basically ruin them with garish drawings and taking direction from said neophytes. Then trying to sell them. That isn't a collector as much as it is a profiteer. I guess I am saying it's a shame to do that to high grade silver and bronze books.

I saw somewhere a Stan Lee signed copy of an early Captain America Comics issue. I thought that was awful and that was just a signature. A lot of others did too.

Of course there IS a lot of grey area between the schools of thought. You absolutely have the right to do what you will with your property. But as you point out, it may not be your property forever and someone else will have to deal with it or not. To me, it seems extreme to have an artist draw all over the cover with a sharpie. The jury is still out as to the damage that causes in the future. I always think of the future when collecting. High grade Batman 232 (9.6-9.8) are pretty expensive and somewhat rare as compared to 8.5 and 9.0 copies.

It used to be the artist would sign their name on the front page and be done with it. It was expected and industry standard. Maybe the artists are wise to the profiteer after speaking with them and realizing they are likely going to sell "original art" and they won't be getting a piece of that, charge through the nose for the service of basically drawing all over the cover.

Is there that large of a market for high grade sketched books from the silver and bronze age? Enough to deface key issues? I see them and they turn me off completely. A well placed signature is great, but full page drawings with a sharpie takes away the pleasure of seeing the cover and at the end of the day, that's what I am basically collecting: A cover since it is encapsulated.