RallyRd - that old idea about partial ownership of comics is a reality (updated July 21, 2021) 6 6

[D84]

I smell a huge increase and then a market collapse. 🤣🤣🤣

[James J Johnson]

4 hours ago, D84 said:

I smell a huge increase and then a market collapse. 🤣🤣🤣

I must say, even though I like this "multiple shareholder of one book" hair-brained, half-baked scheme better than I like the "cut key issues into tiny pieces then glue them to a card" scheme, chances favor the only way I'd take part in either would be at gunpoint. . 

Edited July 26, 2020 by James J Johnson

[dikran]

I think we’re all losing sight of one thing: will CGC slab those “official ownership documents”? 

[James J Johnson]

1 minute ago, dikran1 said:

I think we’re all losing sight of one thing: will CGC slab those “official ownership documents”? 

We're also losing sight of the fact that if one of these "publicly traded, cooperatively owned" books is paid for, funded by paypal or credit card the sale IS NOT FINAL FOR 180 DAYS! Commodities trading generally doesn't work that way! You buy 1000 shares of a stock at $9@, it goes to $12@, you sell, you take your profits and/or reinvest. If two weeks later the stock plummets to $6 per share, you don't owe anybody $6000 becaause you were in and now you're out.  So what happens here if 2 days, or 2 weeks, or 2 months, or 170 days later there's a chargeback? And the book is being returned the money to be refunded? Have any of the parties involved thought about how ecommerce works when paypal and cc companies are involved in the payment process? Because of how they're involved, no sale is final until 180 days have passed. Counting a sale as final before 180 days have elapsed is counting chickens before they've hatched. 

[Gatsby77]

10 hours ago, lou_fine said:

It's not actually 35% total without any discounts as I believe @valiantman was simply adding together the 20% BP on the hammer price and the 15% SP on the hammer price for a simplified, but incorrect total of 35%.  

If we assume no special negotiating discounts even with the standard 20% BP and 15% SP, it still works out to less than 35%. 

Sure. But don't kid yourselves - Heritage waives the seller's premium more often than you'd think, particularly when the book lends significant advertising value to their auctions. Think Batman 1s, Action 7s, McFarlane covers, and yes - potentially even 9.8 TMNT 1s.

And yes - the combined buyer's and seller's premiums is why, while I've spent thousands at Heritage, I've only sold through Comiclink - and that includes when I sold my copy of TMNT # 1.

It also frightens me because, while I've yet to try to sell any of my original art, I feel like for decent pieces Heritage is really the only viable outlet for sellers - and you take an immediate ~30% haircut.

[dikran]

8 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

We're also losing sight of the fact that if one of these "publicly traded, cooperatively owned" books is paid for, funded by paypal or credit card the sale IS NOT FINAL FOR 180 DAYS! Commodities trading generally doesn't work that way! You buy 1000 shares of a stock at $9@, it goes to $12@, you sell, you take your profits and/or reinvest. If two weeks later the stock plummets to $6 per share, you don't owe anybody $6000 becaause you were in and now you're out.  So what happens here if 2 days, or 2 weeks, or 2 months, or 170 days later there's a chargeback? And the book is being returned the money to be refunded? Have any of the parties involved thought about how ecommerce works when paypal and cc companies are involved in the payment process? Because of how they're involved, no sale is final until 180 days have passed. Counting a sale as final before 180 days have elapsed is counting chickens before they've hatched. 

Can you even buy a 1M let alone 100k book using a credit card? And if you can, salud Don Corleone!

[Mercury Man]

15 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

alternative asset business

That's one way to describe it.  

[Mercury Man]

10 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

"cut key issues into tiny pieces then glue them to a card"

At least you can physically 'own' this, and pull it out to look at occasionally.   Maybe Rally Rd. can put a live camera feed of your book, so you can log in and show your friends you are 1/1000th owner of that comic on display, at Rally Rd. HQ.

[Hollywood1892]

19 hours ago, DJones said:

 

[Hollywood1892]

3 minutes ago, Mercury Man said:

At least you can physically 'own' this, and pull it out to look at occasionally.   Maybe Rally Rd. can put a live camera feed of your book, so you can log in and show your friends you are 1/1000th owner of that comic on display, at Rally Rd. HQ.

Yes

In my opinion this is the clincher, you collect art to ogle, you collect comic books to be enthralled by some of the fantastic stories combined with artwork...it gives the hobby "substance"...this just doesn't give the hobby the substance collectors desire...don't get me wrong I'm in it for the profit at the end of the journey as evidenced by my posts, but I have read every single book I have purchased (online of course where there is no fear of a 9.8 being dropped to a readers copy)

I would have to say CGC would be in it for the same reason, businesses are in it to secure profit otherwise they would not stay in business for long, ask CGC or any LCS for that matter to do their job for free and see what their response is...so people have to understand the company the OP has aforementioned is in it for the profit too, ultimately it's our decision to invest or not.

I invest in CGC for the hopeful profit of my collection at the end of the day, a collection I can take out and admire

[Bird]

16 hours ago, valiantman said:

Long story short... YOU own a $1,200 comic book and Heritage receives $1,200 to sell it for you.  You receive $850.  Heritage keeps 29.17%.

Every. Single. Time.

Now... did you realize that?  Because I don't see that 29.17% for Heritage, 70.83% for YOU mentioned very often.

because you might be missing where seller's fees are negotiable. The very big ticket items can get 0% sellers fee AND might receive a portion of the buyer's fee as well (or so I have heard, I don't have that type of stuff). But I imagine anyone here can get a better deal with HA than 20% if they just negotiate. Every. Single. Time.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Bird

[shadroch]

56 minutes ago, Mercury Man said:

At least you can physically 'own' this, and pull it out to look at occasionally.   Maybe Rally Rd. can put a live camera feed of your book, so you can log in and show your friends you are 1/1000th owner of that comic on display, at Rally Rd. HQ.

I own shares of Harley. It doesn't mean I have a Harley, or even that I can walk into a dealership and get some special privilege. 

I own stock in REITs around the nation and the world. All I have to show for it is a little piece of paper and a check that comes on a regular basis.

[shadroch]

On 7/24/2020 at 8:59 PM, Kon_Jelly said:

You're equating two things that have literally nothing to do with each other (and also showing a fundamental misunderstanding of Bitcoin at the same time). 

Here's the thing - people want to own the comics because they want the actual comics. Once you detach the ownership from the comic itself the interest in owning it is going to plummet. 

Nobody buys a million dollar comic because they want to read it. Or sit in their room and stare at it. They buy it because they think and hope it will become a two million dollar comic.

[lou_fine]

7 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Sure. But don't kid yourselves - Heritage waives the seller's premium more often than you'd think, particularly when the book lends significant advertising value to their auctions. Think Batman 1s, Action 7s, McFarlane covers, and yes - potentially even 9.8 TMNT 1s.

And yes - the combined buyer's and seller's premiums is why, while I've spent thousands at Heritage, I've only sold through Comiclink - and that includes when I sold my copy of TMNT # 1.

It also frightens me because, while I've yet to try to sell any of my original art, I feel like for decent pieces Heritage is really the only viable outlet for sellers - and you take an immediate ~30% haircut.

Take a look at the books you've mentioned here and how many of us are auctioning these off on a regular basis.  Heck, even for Heritage, these types of quality books makes up only a very percentage of their auction offerings in comparison to the rest of the book they are auctioning off.  

Well, if it comes to highest graded copies of more otherwise more common books or simply BA or CA books, I would definitely go with CL.  If it's OA, then Heritage is the auction house to go with and if it's pre-Robin 'Tec books or early Action books, I would be looking much more towards CC to give me the best bang for my buck.  So, there is no real one-stop auction house when it comes to consigning your treasures, as each one of these major auction houses have their own specialty niche customer base.  

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, Mercury Man said:

At least you can physically 'own' this, and pull it out to look at occasionally.   Maybe Rally Rd. can put a live camera feed of your book, so you can log in and show your friends you are 1/1000th owner of that comic on display, at Rally Rd. HQ.

With this type of approach, I believe it's really much more from a pure investment point of view, as opposed to a true collecting point of view.  

When viewed in this light, how often do you pull up your investment account to show your friends how your shares of Apple or Enron are doing when you get together.  

[James J Johnson]

1 hour ago, Mercury Man said:

At least you can physically 'own' this, and pull it out to look at occasionally.   Maybe Rally Rd. can put a live camera feed of your book, so you can log in and show your friends you are 1/1000th owner of that comic on display, at Rally Rd. HQ.

You can buy shares of people too. There's a 65 year old episode of the Honeymooners in my compilation set where Norton buys a stake in Ralph for $20. 

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I would have to say CGC would be in it for the same reason, businesses are in it to secure profit otherwise they would not stay in business for long, ask CGC or any LCS for that matter to do their job for free and see what their response is...so people have to understand the company the OP has aforementioned is in it for the profit too, ultimately it's our decision to invest or not.

This is the part that I can't quite seem to get a handle on in this investment scheme that they are trying to set up here.  

Where exactly are the profits for RallyRd here since the SEC filings seems to indicate they are paying top dollar for these books in the first place and then selling off shares in them that would have them only gain a couple thousand dollars on each of them.  This $1,500 or $2,000 gross margin would be eaten up very quickly in terms of SEC filing fees, insurance costs, storage fees, administration management fees, and whatever else kind of expenses that would be incur with setting up this type of investment fund.  

[Hollywood1892]

31 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

This is the part that I can't quite seem to get a handle on in this investment scheme that they are trying to set up here.  

Where exactly are the profits for RallyRd here since the SEC filings seems to indicate they are paying top dollar for these books in the first place and then selling off shares in them that would have them only gain a couple thousand dollars on each of them.  This $1,500 or $2,000 gross margin would be eaten up very quickly in terms of SEC filing fees, insurance costs, storage fees, administration management fees, and whatever else kind of expenses that would be incur with setting up this type of investment fund.  

Some people have fragmented dreams...I'm not sure how they think this is going to be succesful 

[blazingbob]

45 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

This is the part that I can't quite seem to get a handle on in this investment scheme that they are trying to set up here.  

Where exactly are the profits for RallyRd here since the SEC filings seems to indicate they are paying top dollar for these books in the first place and then selling off shares in them that would have them only gain a couple thousand dollars on each of them.  This $1,500 or $2,000 gross margin would be eaten up very quickly in terms of SEC filing fees, insurance costs, storage fees, administration management fees, and whatever else kind of expenses that would be incur with setting up this type of investment fund.  

From speaking with Greg (Valiantman) and my personal opinion the idea is that the money is made off the trading of the shares,  not the physical sale of the asset.  Nickel and dimes over time.  Of course my mind goes to the capital/software costs of putting up this exchange as well as the Paperwork (SEC filings, corporate,  annual reports,  etc that go along with being a publicly listed electronic exchange).  None of this is cheap by the way.  It can be run as a "boiler room" or be run the right way.  I don't know the owners of Rallyrd so I'm not sure what path they are going to go on this.  I know how I would set it up and it isn't the way they are doing it.  And frankly if I did it I wouldn't want to be a "American Greed" episode.  

[D84]

57 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

You can buy shares of people too. There's a 65 year old episode of the Honeymooners in my compilation set where Norton buys a stake in Ralph for $20. 

Maybe we can all do this?

I'll start by offering 1,000 shares of my left  for $20.00 each. 🤣🤣🤣