RallyRd - that old idea about partial ownership of comics is a reality (updated July 21, 2021) 6 6

[Mercury Man]

5 hours ago, shadroch said:

I own shares of Harley. It doesn't mean I have a Harley, or even that I can walk into a dealership and get some special privilege. 

I'm with you, but follow this logic (probably loosely based) for a second.   I too own shares in things like Coca Cola.  We can go out and support given companies by buying things associated with that company (in my case a few liters, in your case, maybe you get some merch from the website, if you don't want to splash out for hog).   We also get dividends, we can get a check for that or reinvest to buy more shares, and we also get splits.  We also get to watch the market daily, and monitor the ups and downs.  We can sell our stock Monday-Friday all year, minus holidays. 

This owning 1/1000 of a comic book is nothing like this.

[blazingbob]

21 minutes ago, Mercury Man said:

I'm with you, but follow this logic (probably loosely based) for a second.   I too own shares in things like Coca Cola.  We can go out and support given companies by buying things associated with that company (in my case a few liters, in your case, maybe you get some merch from the website, if you don't want to splash out for hog).   We also get dividends, we can get a check for that or reinvest to buy more shares, and we also get splits.  We also get to watch the market daily, and monitor the ups and downs.  We can sell our stock Monday-Friday all year, minus holidays. 

This owning 1/1000 of a comic book is nothing like this.

You get or hope to see other sales of the same book and then hope that your shares reset to that value on the trading platform.  

I think people are missing the "speculation" part of this via the 24x7 trading platform.  The trading of comic shares regardless of the underlying assets value.  You might be one of those lucky guys who gets bought out at a higher price even though the underlying asset has been sold yet.  You could be a potential buyer of the book and if RallyRd doesn't sell you the book at the price you want you start buying up shares (hopefully for less then what you want to pay for the book) and then if you acquire a majority percentage you force the sale at your number.  

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

7 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

You get or hope to see other sales of the same book and then hope that your shares reset to that value on the trading platform.  

I think people are missing the "speculation" part of this via the 24x7 trading platform.  The trading of comic shares regardless of the underlying assets value.  You might be one of those lucky guys who gets bought out at a higher price even though the underlying asset has been sold yet.  You could be a potential buyer of the book and if RallyRd doesn't sell you the book at the price you want you start buying up shares (hopefully for less then what you want to pay for the book) and then if you acquire a majority percentage you force the sale at your number.  

A good ol' fashioned hostile takeover approach to acquire a book you want.

What could go wrong?

[Hollywood1892]

6 hours ago, shadroch said:

Nobody buys a million dollar comic because they want to read it. Or sit in their room and stare at it. They buy it because they think and hope it will become a two million dollar comic.

That is exactly why I would buy it...but occasionally I would take it out and look at it

[jason4]

Couldn't you just buy a page from a action 1 instead of a "share". At least you'd have something to hold and look at?

[batman_fan]

How easy will it be to manipulate the fractional share price?

[Gatsby77]

21 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

How easy will it be to manipulate the fractional share price?

Incredibly easy, if, for instance, Rally Rd. retains even say 30% of the shares.

[alexgross.com]

1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said:

Incredibly easy, if, for instance, Rally Rd. retains even say 30% of the shares.

i'm guessing that they own 51% of each book/ shares. 

[lou_fine]

4 minutes ago, www.alexgross.com said:

1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said:

Incredibly easy, if, for instance, Rally Rd. retains even say 30% of the shares.

i'm guessing that they own 51% of each book/ shares. 

I would also suspect something like this since it's about the only think that makes financial sense from their point of view.  

Then again, if they are under the SEC regulations, aren't they supposed to divulge the identity of all large shareholders who owns 10% or more of any publicly traded asset?  

[blazingbob]

42 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I would also suspect something like this since it's about the only think that makes financial sense from their point of view.  

Then again, if they are under the SEC regulations, aren't they supposed to divulge the identity of all large shareholders who owns 10% or more of any publicly traded asset?  

Yes,  they would.  I believe it is a 13-F filing

[Hamlet]

I’d suggest that anyone interested in actually doing this read their Disclaimers carefully-

https://rallyrd.com/disclaimer/
 

A few of them that jumped out at me-

• The operating expenses related to a Series of the company may exceed the revenues generated by such Series and excess operating expenses could then materially and adversely affect the value of Interests and result in dilution to Investors.
• If the Company’s series limited liability company structure is not respected, then Investors may have to share any liabilities of the Company with all Investors and not just those who hold the same Series of Interests as them.
• There may be potentially high storage, maintenance and insurance costs for the Underlying Assets.
• Members of a Series in the Company have very limited voting rights.
• In the event that operating expenses for a series exceed revenues generated by the series, the Manager may choose to cause the series to incur debt rather than look for additional sources of income elsewhere to cover the costs.
• Allocation of costs and expenses across series of the Company may be difficult. In such circumstances the Manager may be conflicted from acting in the best interests of the Company as a whole or the individual series.
• The Company’s operating agreement contains provisions that reduce or eliminate duties (including fiduciary duties) of the Manager.

These are massive red flags to me.  You’re not just buying a share of the asset.  You’re also letting them borrow against that asset to pay themselves to manage the asset.  How much?  No way of knowing.  I particularly like the warning that if their company structure is not respected, investors could actually lose more money than they put in ( “share any liabilities” ).  They have no fiduciary responsibility to you, so there seems to be a pretty strong incentive to suck as much money out of each asset to pay themselves, and then sell the asset for what they borrowed against it, leaving the investors with very little of their cash after expenses.  
 

They may have good intentions, but this looks to me like a lot of people are going to end up getting fleeced.

[Hamlet]

5 hours ago, blazingbob said:

You get or hope to see other sales of the same book and then hope that your shares reset to that value on the trading platform.  

I think people are missing the "speculation" part of this via the 24x7 trading platform.  The trading of comic shares regardless of the underlying assets value.  You might be one of those lucky guys who gets bought out at a higher price even though the underlying asset has been sold yet.  You could be a potential buyer of the book and if RallyRd doesn't sell you the book at the price you want you start buying up shares (hopefully for less then what you want to pay for the book) and then if you acquire a majority percentage you force the sale at your number.  

I see nothing on their site that indicates that having a majority of the share for an asset actually gives to any control.  It looks to me like the manager makes all of the decisions regardless of share ownership.

[blazingbob]

4 minutes ago, Hamlet said:

I see nothing on their site that indicates that having a majority of the share for an asset actually gives to any control.  It looks to me like the manager makes all of the decisions regardless of share ownership.

Yes but as it has been posted earlier the "big Picture" I keep getting told is the trading of shares.  There is no "24x7 trading platform" right now and In its current form the asset manager is fully in control right now.

Edited July 27, 2020 by blazingbob

[Hamlet]

Just now, blazingbob said:

Yes but as it has been posted earlier the "big Picture" I keep getting told is the trading of shares.  In its current form the asset manager is fully in control right now.

Even if they set up share trading, I see nothing indicating that that would involve control of the asset.  You would just own a bigger share of  the proceeds when the manager decides to sell.  You could own 100% of the shares for an asset, but that doesn’t give you control.  It just means you get all of the money ( minus the debt that they’ve incurred for expenses) when they choose to sell it.

[D84]

1 minute ago, Hamlet said:

Even if they set up share trading, I see nothing indicating that that would involve control of the asset.  You would just own a bigger share of  the proceeds when the manager decides to sell.  You could own 100% of the shares for an asset, but that doesn’t give you control.  It just means you get all of the money ( minus the debt that they’ve incurred for expenses) when they choose to sell it.

I'm sure they'll find a way to make the expenses so great that she shareholders will get nothing.

What a scam.

[sfcityduck]

On 7/24/2020 at 8:03 PM, valiantman said:

Except that you actually own a share of Action Comics #1.  It has a CGC serial number, you have a legal document showing your fractional ownership, and the book exists right here on Earth.  There's no "for entertainment purposes only" fine print like owning the moon or a star.  You get yourself a cheap reprint and know you also own a piece of the real thing.  Prove it?  Sure, let me log into my account.  Wait!  That's how you know you own stocks!  No difference.

I don't anyone who owns TWX or DIS stock who is going to boast about owning a piece of the comics and art in the DC or Disney or Marvel Archives, the DC or Marvel character rights, or the other things that those stocks represent.  I'm not sure why a "fractional ownership" interest in a comic book would satisfy anyone's ego or create any boasting rights that would exceed ownership of TWX and DIS.  Collecting comics, which are a markedly different things than a stock ownership interest, is satisfying for collectors because they like objects, not intangibles.  Why do you focus on the notion you can "get yourself a cheap reprint" of Action 1?  You could, after all, just access one of the many free readable copies on the internet.  The answer, my friend, is because even you want to own something tangible, not just an intangible interest or electronic images publicly available.  

[Gatsby77]

3 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

I don't anyone who owns TWX or DIS stock who is going to boast about owning a piece of the comics and art in the DC or Disney or Marvel Archives, the DC or Marvel character rights, or the other things that those stocks represent.  I'm not sure why a "fractional ownership" interest in a comic book would satisfy anyone's ego or create any boasting rights that would exceed ownership of TWX and DIS.

This.

And it's why I don't buy @valiantman's argument that owning a piece of a AAA comic book key for more than market value is cool.

At that point, you might as well straight own stock in Marvel via Disney.

Separated from the intrinsic value and joy of owning the comic book itself, it's just an investment vehicle, and there are *far* better ones out there.

[1Cool]

14 hours ago, jason4 said:

Couldn't you just buy a page from a action 1 instead of a "share". At least you'd have something to hold and look at?

Very interesting thread forming here because although I don't think I'll be buying any shares it does open up a whole new venue for top end books that could expand into many high end collectible areas (art, coins, cards, comics).  I believe your question highlights the limited thinking people are using.  Buying a page of Action 1 is:

a) costly - still way over the cost most people would want to put into a page of a iconic book

b) not that high in the demand column since one page is not nearly as sexy as the entire book.  You may not physically own anything by buying shares but you get a chance to cheaply buy a part of a hot commodity.

And from b) we get the crutch of this whole thing.  These books have to be in demand to entice people to buy up the first batch of shares and then hopefully keep pushing up the share prices each 3 months when the next batch of people want to buy into this highly in demand book.  The share priced will eventually grow to a max price that the average person can't afford and possibly the shares will have to split to bring the price back down to the pocket change price to bring in the next round of buyers.  The book price then becomes secondary since the stock price is based on the demand for the tiny piece of the book and the sum of all the pieces could be vastly greater then the price of the book (not a good investment to me but it happens all around us on the stock market).

Look at the explosion that is occurring over at Robinhood which is bringing in the pocket change investors.  This concept has the chance to explode into a mega investment platform which is what I'm assuming the makers of the website and company are hoping for.  They may be making nickles and dimes on the books but the venue could become very valuable if it gets sold or if it becomes a publicly traded company with a lot of buzz around it.

In terms of how it will effect us I see it will initially help high end comic books sellers (or collectors who eventually sell their books).  When I did high end raffles of books on Facebook several years ago I spent quite a lot of time bidding up books on ComicLink since I was happy to buy a book for FMV if I could sell the book for 20% over FMV in the raffle.  It just needed to be hot and in demand enough to get people to pony up the $20 for a chance to win the book and I was buying a ton of books at full price.  I see this being doing in droves by these investment companies.  But just like the raffles there gets to be a saturation and the easy money dries up and people can get stuck holding onto books they paid top dollar for and losing money.

Edited July 27, 2020 by 1Cool

[valiantman]

Lots of posts, lots of words, 12 pages into the discussion.

Quick summary of my original thoughts:

 

In stocks, if I have $1,000, I can invest in ANY individual company, big or small, up to $1,000 worth of whatever fraction of a company I can afford.  (Yes, even stocks over $1,000 because fractional shares are a thing now.)  I can sell, digitally, anytime.

In cryptocurrency, if I have $1,000, I can invest in ANY individual crypto, big or small, up to $1,000 worth of whatever fraction I can afford.  I can sell, digitally, anytime.

In mutual funds, if I have $1,000, I can invest in ANY individual fund, big or small, up to $1,000 worth of whatever fraction I can afford.  I can sell, digitally, anytime.

BUT... 

In collectibles, if I have $1,000, I can ONLY invest in collectibles worth $1,000 or less.  I can't sell, digitally, anytime.  I have to wait for a buyer on some platform, ship the collectibles, etc.

Collectibles WILL have a method for investing up to $1,000 in ANY collectible, big or small.  It WILL allow selling, digitally, anytime.

RallyRd might not be that solution, but SOMETHING will be.

 

When that happens, I predict those $1,000 purchases on collectibles currently worth $1,000 or less will shift MANY of those dollars to collectibles worth $100,000 or more. 

Who buys penny stocks when Amazon and Google are available in the same system?  Some do.  Most don't.

If all collectibles are available in the same system, people don't settle for 1st appearance of some Joker knock-off character from the past 30 years.  They'll go after 1st Batman and 1st Joker.  The REAL thing.  Those prices will skyrocket.

[1Cool]

3 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Lots of posts, lots of words, 12 pages into the discussion.

Quick summary of my original thoughts:

 

In stocks, if I have $1,000, I can invest in ANY individual company, big or small, up to $1,000 worth of whatever fraction of a company I can afford.  (Yes, even stocks over $1,000 because fractional shares are a thing now.)  I can sell, digitally, anytime.

In cryptocurrency, if I have $1,000, I can invest in ANY individual crypto, big or small, up to $1,000 worth of whatever fraction I can afford.  I can sell, digitally, anytime.

In mutual funds, if I have $1,000, I can invest in ANY individual fund, big or small, up to $1,000 worth of whatever fraction I can afford.  I can sell, digitally, anytime.

BUT... 

In collectibles, if I have $1,000, I can ONLY invest in collectibles worth $1,000 or less.  I can't sell, digitally, anytime.  I have to wait for a buyer on some platform, ship the collectibles, etc.

Collectibles WILL have a method for investing up to $1,000 in ANY collectible, big or small.  It WILL allow selling, digitally, anytime.

RallyRd might not be that solution, but SOMETHING will be.

 

When that happens, I predict those $1,000 purchases on collectibles currently worth $1,000 or less will shift MANY of those dollars to collectibles worth $100,000 or more. 

Who buys penny stocks when Amazon and Google are available in the same system?  Some do.  Most don't.

If all collectibles are available in the same system, people don't settle for 1st appearance of some Joker knock-off character from the past 30 years.  They'll go after 1st Batman and 1st Joker.  The REAL thing.  Those prices will skyrocket.

But won't this concept have to bleed over into the lesser priced hot keys?  Who are they selling shared to - me, you?  Probably not to comic book collectors since they will actually want to hold the book at least.  I'd think they would be selling to the younger investor types who see a possible huge windfall in a 3 month time period if they invest in a book that is waiting to pop.  So I'd think a book like FF Annual 6 in CGC 9.4 would be a good book for this format to buy up and then offer up $10 shares since that will expand their client base.  Of course too cheap of books will not be worth their time but maybe a book like NM 98 CGC 9.8 would net them a tidy profit even though its only a $700 book.  They sell 80 shares at $10 a piece and keep half of them.  The first batch of 40 shares sells out in minutes but in 3 months the shares may be up to $20 a piece since what Deadpool fan wouldn't pony up a measly $20 to own a piece of their grail (better then having a CGC 9.6 X-Force 2 which is all they could afford).  It's not how much the book is worth to a bunch of people but its the excitement of owning a piece of something they want for pocket change.  I once bought my mom a star for $50 or so.  Well at least the naming of a star and a certificate.  I couldn't even pick out the star with the paper work but my mom thought it was a nice gift so I bought her a star for Christmas.  People do irrational things all the time and as long as demand exceeds supply and the price point is low then you will have people lining up out the door for their pet rock.