RallyRd - that old idea about partial ownership of comics is a reality (updated July 21, 2021) 6 6

[1Cool]

19 hours ago, bc said:

The same guy who bought the card? 

the purchaser of the Underlying Asset is...the asset manager of the Series #86JORDAN

Double sweet deal for him 

-bc

That is terrifying and reeks of fraud.  You can't use a positive outcome to pimp your company if you manufactured the positive outcome.  I predict a lot of lost money once this all gets sorted out if they have to go to such extents to insure people make money on their site. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by 1Cool

[Kryptic1]

Once the trading platform is up and running, when would it ever make sense for the shareholders to agree to sell the underlying asset?  Using the Jordan card as an example, if the card is worth $80k making each share worth $80, why would I agree to liquidate at $71 per share when I can sell on the exchange for $80?  If the shares trade at a premium to asset value, it makes even less sense.  The Jordan holders had to take $71 because there is currently no other way to sell.  And if the assets are never sold and RallyRd can’t take their cut of the sale, how do they pay their operating expenses?

[Gatsby77]

On 7/24/2020 at 10:29 PM, D84 said:

So, this company wants me to subsidize their collection? 🤬 them in the 🤬.

Highlighting this again, because there's poetry in its simple truth.

[Mercury Man]

41 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Highlighting this again, because there's poetry in its simple truth.

Yes the more you read about them, just seems like they are using 'investors' to subsidize their personal collectibles.   This isn't like buying into a stock of a company, that produces and manufactures goods.   At least with time share real estate, you get to enjoy the property a few weeks a year.  Here your money goes into the ozone, at the mercy of a few short windows of buying in and pulling out.  No fun for me.    

[GM8]

The Rally rep responded to my initial questions regarding ownership rules, sales, etc. This is my question and his response:

(Rally) Jul 28, 2020, 1:09 PM EDT Hi  - Thanks for writing in and happy to answer these questions for you! We do limit any individual investor to 10% max of any asset - however, all assets are always for sale, including to users of our platform; we’re always accepting offers on all funded cars on the platform and are continually tracking sentiment data and values from auctions, insurers, brokers, and private dealers all over the world to track price movements. If we get an offer that's a significant premium, it's our responsibility to bring that offer to the shareholders and potentially sell the vehicle. Let me know if there's anything else I can answer for you!

 

Me Jul 26, 2020, 9:07 AM EDT Hi, all the concept. Question for you. What if an investor purchases all the shares of an item? Is that item delivered to them? What if an investor purchases the majority of shares and wants to buy the others out? What happens then?

[vheflin]

43 minutes ago, GM8 said:

The Rally rep responded to my initial questions regarding ownership rules, sales, etc. This is my question and his response:

(Rally) Jul 28, 2020, 1:09 PM EDT Hi  - Thanks for writing in and happy to answer these questions for you! We do limit any individual investor to 10% max of any asset - however, all assets are always for sale, including to users of our platform; we’re always accepting offers on all funded cars on the platform and are continually tracking sentiment data and values from auctions, insurers, brokers, and private dealers all over the world to track price movements. If we get an offer that's a significant premium, it's our responsibility to bring that offer to the shareholders and potentially sell the vehicle. Let me know if there's anything else I can answer for you!

 

Me Jul 26, 2020, 9:07 AM EDT Hi, all the concept. Question for you. What if an investor purchases all the shares of an item? Is that item delivered to them? What if an investor purchases the majority of shares and wants to buy the others out? What happens then?

It's a sucker investor funded flipping operation

[valiantman]

2 minutes ago, vheflin said:

It's a sucker investor funded flipping operation

You're describing everything that's ever happened trading things for money and vice versa.

[Gatsby77]

11 minutes ago, valiantman said:

You're describing everything that's ever happened trading things for money and vice versa.

But few are so openly transparent in the ways they're blatantly manipulating the market and ripping off their clients at the same time.

Their blatant chutzpah is almost elegant, actually.

And the sad thing is, it will work -- until it doesn't.

To quote Hemingway, "How did you go bankrupt? Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly."

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, GM8 said:

The Rally rep responded to my initial questions regarding ownership rules, sales, etc. This is my question and his response:

(Rally) Jul 28, 2020, 1:09 PM EDT Hi  - Thanks for writing in and happy to answer these questions for you! We do limit any individual investor to 10% max of any asset - however, all assets are always for sale, including to users of our platform; we’re always accepting offers on all funded cars on the platform and are continually tracking sentiment data and values from auctions, insurers, brokers, and private dealers all over the world to track price movements. If we get an offer that's a significant premium, it's our responsibility to bring that offer to the shareholders and potentially sell the vehicle. Let me know if there's anything else I can answer for you!

 

Me Jul 26, 2020, 9:07 AM EDT Hi, all the concept. Question for you. What if an investor purchases all the shares of an item? Is that item delivered to them? What if an investor purchases the majority of shares and wants to buy the others out? What happens then?

Thanks for touching base with them to hear what they actually have to say.  

Although there is a 10% max limit on third party arms length investors, did you get a chance to ask them what the max limit is with respect to share ownership by their own company itself, because this is where the tricky part is in terms of potential fraud or price manipulation of the underlying asset?  

[valiantman]

13 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

29 minutes ago, valiantman said:

You're describing everything that's ever happened trading things for money and vice versa.

But few are so openly transparent in the ways they're blatantly manipulating the market and ripping off their clients at the same time.

Their blatant chutzpah is almost elegant, actually.

And the sad thing is, it will work -- until it doesn't.

To quote Hemingway, "How did you go bankrupt? Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly."

RallyRd has part of the solution, and someone else (or they) will eventually offer the complete solution.  The problem isn't going away, though.  Every hobbyist in every hobby has some unobtainable hobby goal that is related to being unable to afford their target.  Since there is money involved in every hobby, it is just a matter of time before someone (RallyRd or not) figures out how to satisfy a portion of those goals and obtain a portion of that money.  While we wait, there are a couple of AC/DC songs and a Pink Floyd tune that come to mind immediately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lqdErI9uss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iF26wKF-_M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0kcet4aPpQ

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by valiantman

[valiantman]

2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

On 7/24/2020 at 9:29 PM, D84 said:

So, this company wants me to subsidize their collection? 🤬 them in the 🤬.

Highlighting this again, because there's poetry in its simple truth.

How is this company any different than every other comic book seller who also has a personal collection?  

You buy something, they get a subsidy for their own collection, money for bills, if they have a shop, there's money for rent, staff, insurance, etc., and you can be absolutely sure they paid less for the thing that you just bought from them.

Is it your need to physically touch a comic book you wouldn't ever be able to afford?  Stay away from museums.

Is it your desire to only purchase comic books that are at or below a certain dollar amount because you don't think yourself worthy of even a small piece of anything better?

Awww... don't be so hard on yourself.  You're doing just fine, kitten.

 

[bc]

Y'know, if someone ever perfects the concept of bringing fractional ownership to comics by establishing a transparent 24/7 exchange vehicle comparable to a stock exchange, I wouldn't need GPA or any third party data analytic services anymore 

The participating brokerage services would provide sufficient data like the current basic analytics of publicly traded companies financial statements & future outlook.

-bc

[Mercury Man]

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

If we get an offer that's a significant premium

Defined as......????   

[wombat]

This seems like a horrible idea. Carry on. 

[F For Fake]

All of this stuff ties my head in knots, to the point where it all seems so abstract that I start thinking about how money doesn't even really exist, it's just a series of 1's and 0's that we all agree mean something. And I'm not even stoned!

 

[lou_fine]

On 7/27/2020 at 1:09 PM, Gatsby77 said:

On 7/27/2020 at 12:25 PM, valiantman said:

What do you mean?  They bought Captain America #3 for $35,500 and they offered 1,000 shares at $37 each.  No one can put a "factual value" on a comic book until it is sold, whether it's by 1,000 shares or just a book straight out of whatever short box is sitting next to you.

Except, we know the factual value of that book is less than $37,000.

It's *never* sold for $37,000 in that grade and the last sale of a comp (another cgc 5.0 copy) sold two weeks ago for less than $24,000 all-in.

Not sure how good that sale from a few weeks ago at $23,400 is as an indicator for the correct value of a Cap 3 since it appears to be more of an outlier to the down side when compared to previous sales.  I personally believe the price was negatively impacted by the fact that there were 2 relatively nice copies of Cap 3 up for sale in the same auction which is never a good thing for the consignor.  

If we skip over this last sale for $23,400, the HA archives indicates that the last 3 mid-grade sales for Cap 3 was a CGC  6.0 restored PLOD copy for $21,600 back in November of 2018, a CGC 5.5 restored PLOD copy for $24,000 back in November of 2019, and a CGC 4.0 restored PLOD copy for $18,000 earlier in March of this year.  If you coupled this with the $30,500 auction sale that CC was able to get for their CGC 5.0 graded copy back in March of 2019 plus the $35,500 they sold this current copy to RallyRd in March of this year, then a more realistic value of somewhere in the low to mid $30K's for an unrestored CGC 5.0 graded copy of Cap 3 is probably somewhere in the ball park.  

From a pure investment point of view, there is also always a premium to buying something in lower amounts that makes it more conducive to a broader number of investors.  As far as I can tell from all of these previous auction results, with many of them for restored PLOD copies, this premium is nowhere close to the 40% to 60% that some of the boards members here appear to be making it out to be.  

[lou_fine]

On 7/27/2020 at 5:02 PM, Gatsby77 said:

I dunno man. So far it seems like a decent way for Metro to move dead inventory quickly at top dollar.

Wonder how much they’re involved in the back-end, either via shares or as silent partner guarantors.

This is also something that had crossed my mind as I noticed that the names of either Vinnie or Ken Goldin (found of some big sports auction house) as the sellers of the books to RallyRd at the bottom of the Purchase Option Agreement that's on file.  

Nevertheless, calling Cap 3 "dead inventory" which is probably the second most in-demand Cap book out there is pretty much tantamount to calling Hulk 181 or uber HG copies of TMNT 1 dead inventory.  Especially when you considered that Cap 3 is one of the very few books out there that has consistently been able to sell for huge multiples to condition guide, even when in restored PLOD condition.  Of course, anything can become dead inventory if the price is unrealistically too high, but I don't believe a mid-grade unrestored copy of Cap 3 in the mid to upper end of the $30K's would qualify as being unrealistically too high from my own personal point of view.  

[lou_fine]

On 7/28/2020 at 5:39 AM, telerites said:

On 7/28/2020 at 5:22 AM, Gatsby77 said:

"The thing to realize here is that Bob Overstreet does not sell any comic books. He compiles sales data that he receives from comics dealers. That makes him a prime target for all sorts of efforts to raise the values of certain genres. The simplest trick is for two dealers to "sell" each other books at inflated values. Let's say that dealer #1 has an ACTION #1 that hasn't been moving, while dealer #2 has a set of Captain America #1-#10 that he hasn't turned over in a while. Each dealer writes the other dealer a check for $200,000, and they swap inventory. The checks cancel each other out, but now each can report that they "sold" those books for record prices. This happens far more frequently than you would think..."

 

Hasn't this type of scenario or similar also has been postulated with GPA manipulation?

 

On 7/28/2020 at 5:52 AM, Gatsby77 said:

Exactly - it's been going on for decades.

Well, since we all know how old slow conservative Bob moves with the loooooong lag factor that he build into his guide valuations until he see solid evidence or confirmation of prices, you are going to have many long years to wait.  Just because a book sells for a certain amount of money doesn NOT mean that Overstreet will be reflecting the full impact of that move in his guide next year.  

For example, take a look at the high profile sale of the CGC 9.2 graded Atlantic City copy of Action Comics 13 which sold at CC for something like $185K way back in 2011 when top of guide was only at $30K.  Well, guess what, instead of jacking his guide valuation all the way up to $185K in the next guide, it went up significantly to $45K or a 50% increase the following year.  It was only after many years of continuing sales at multiples of condition guide , even in restored PLOD conditio, that Overstreet finally got around to bumping his top of guide price up to $190K in the current edition of the guide.  Take a look at the Cap 3 which we all seem to be talking about here, and if you think old Bob is going to be reflecting these prices in his guide, you've got a long wait coming because it's still valued at only $6,500 in mid-grade even though they have been selling in the low to mid $20K's even in restored PLOD condition for the past couple of years.      

Now, if you are talking about attempted GPA price maniupilation, then that's a completely different story as everybody's focus there seems to be on the last sales result or the average of the past few sales.  As a result, tons of room for price manipulation there.  Still, better than Wizard since GPA is supposedly based upon actual sales whereas Wizard was caught with their panties down around their ankes so many times.  Especially when it came to price valuations during the early 90's boom for expected red hot books being set at things like $20 or $50, only to find out later that those books never even ended up hitting the shelves of the LCS's in time due to printing or distribution issues.  

[Gatsby77]

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

This is also something that had crossed my mind as I noticed that the names of either Vinnie or Ken Goldin (found of some big sports auction house) as the sellers of the books to RallyRd at the bottom of the Purchase Option Agreement that's on file.  

Nevertheless, calling Cap 3 "dead inventory" which is probably the second most in-demand Cap book out there is pretty much tantamount to calling Hulk 181 or uber HG copies of TMNT 1 dead inventory.  Especially when you considered that Cap 3 is one of the very few books out there that has consistently been able to sell for huge multiples to condition guide, even when in restored PLOD condition.  Of course, anything can become dead inventory if the price is unrealistically too high, but I don't believe a mid-grade unrestored copy of Cap 3 in the mid to upper end of the $30K's would qualify as being unrealistically too high from my own personal point of view.  

Dead inventory "at the top prices Metro would want."

Hulk 181 can still be dead inventory. Example: Metro has a CGC 9.0 copy for sale for $6,500. That's not great, given that the 90-day GPA average for the book (over 11 sales) is $5,514, and the 12-month average is $5,641 (across 48 sales).

For me to buy the book from them (including taxes, shipping and insurance) would cost more than $6,900. That would be...dumb.

Re. Captain America # 3 in 5.0, G.A.tor - who knows the Golden Age market better than most, stated way earlier in this thread that "In cap 3 example last 3 public sales have been 32k, 30k and recently 24k at heritage. That doesn’t bode well for someone owning a share at 37k? And that surely wouldn’t inspire someone 90days later to now pay 40 for that 37 share that’s worth 30?"

That's the point.

The book's not "dead inventory" at $28,000 or even (maybe) $30,000. But to get $30,000+ guaranteed in a direct sale, without having to pay any type of commission to an eBay or a Heritage or a Clink? Particularly when the last Heritage sale was just $24k, and we don't know how much of the usual 29% tong was actually taken out of even that price?

[Buzzetta]

Again, I could think of multiple ways to commit fraud under this game.