RallyRd - that old idea about partial ownership of comics is a reality (updated July 21, 2021) 6 6

[Gatsby77]

2 minutes ago, valiantman said:

There are ETFs for comics?  If you specifically want to invest in key issue comics (not stocks or other assets) and can't afford true keys, what are your options?

Time payments or credit cards - as folks have already been doing for decades.

The key is liquidity. That you can't buy or sell even on a daily basis here is a huge red flag, as is that they've built in a mark-up at far over market price.

[valiantman]

3 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Time payments or credit cards - as folks have already been doing for decades.

The key is liquidity. That you can't buy or sell even on a daily basis here is a huge red flag, as is that they've built in a mark-up at far over market price.

Daily liquidity and "investment" don't usually overlap, but I get your point. RallyRd is building an exchange for 24/7 trades, and currently allow trades once every 90 days or so. Long-term investing usually goes more than 90 days.  How long does it take to find a buyer at full market price on a $10,000 comic?  That isn't daily liquidity either.

Edited July 24, 2020 by valiantman

[blazingbob]

1 minute ago, Gatsby77 said:

Time payments or credit cards - as folks have already been doing for decades.

The key is liquidity. That you can't buy or sell even on a daily basis here is a huge red flag, as is that they've built in a mark-up at far over market price.

I haven't researched this but I'm guessing that the shares aren't tradeable?  Or does the underwriter have the ability to buy them back at face value/discount if you need to get out?  They aren't being sold as bonds that have a definitive call date or are they?

[blazingbob]

2 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Daily liquidity and "investment" don't usually overlap, but I get your point. RallyRd is building an exchange for 24/7 trades, and currently allow trades once every 90 days or so. Long-term investing usually goes more than 90 days.

Comic default swaps are coming.  

[90sChild]

Can I short sell their shares? No?  Then this isn't a real equity item.  

[valiantman]

2 minutes ago, 90sChild said:

Can I short sell their shares? No?  Then this isn't a real equity item.  

Can you short sell a car? 

[valiantman]

7 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

I haven't researched this but I'm guessing that the shares aren't tradeable?  Or does the underwriter have the ability to buy them back at face value/discount if you need to get out?  They aren't being sold as bonds that have a definitive call date or are they?

You can trade, once every 90 days (planned to be a 24/7 exchange). You are X% owner of an LLC with a single asset.  It's permanent ownership (until sold by your choice, or a cash buy out of the item by majority shareholder vote).

[90sChild]

17 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Can you short sell a car? 

A car isn't really purporting to be share or percentage of an investment equity is it

[valiantman]

27 minutes ago, 90sChild said:

A car isn't really purporting to be share or percentage of an investment equity is it

If you believe in cars or comics as an investment, you can own a positive percentage in equity.  You can't sell a positive percentage of an item you don't own, nor a derivative short sale of that item.  The cars and comics do exist.  The fact that derivatives don't exist isn't a flaw.

[blazingbob]

Normally and I say this again if you want "investors" you normally price the equity below the value of the item.  If I'm splitting deals I'm not putting my partners in at a retail number,  I'm putting them in at the cost price.  We then both share in the upside.  Somehow I get the feeling that out of the gate the only one benefiting is the majority equity holder since he is offloading his cost onto the new shareholders.

[Ryan.]

Just downloaded the app. Pretty interesting offerings across a broad spectrum. I'll explore more deeply this weekend. 

[Gatsby77]

1 hour ago, blazingbob said:

Comic default swaps are coming.  

Could be worse. 

Remember "Comic book coin?"

[Deadpoolica]

[AnkurJ]

This company does it with fine art

https://www.masterworks.io/dashboard/offerings
 

How long until they start looking at Ditko and Kirby?

[Sweet Lou 14]

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

If you believe in cars or comics as an investment, you can own a positive percentage in equity.  You can't sell a positive percentage of an item you don't own, nor a derivative short sale of that item.  The cars and comics do exist.  The fact that derivatives don't exist isn't a flaw.

You could in theory short sell 100% of a comic ... but because investment-level comics are generally unique items (even 9.8s are not perfectly interchangeable), I think you'd have to be talking about a specific book for this to work fairly for both parties.

So let's say there's a particular book up for auction on a site like Heritage or ComicConnect, where you are guaranteed that you will win if you just commit to bidding over and over until all other bidders give up.  And then let's say you and I agree ahead of time that I will buy the book from you for $10,000 once the auction is done.  If you end up winning the book for less than $10,000, you will have successfully made a profit by short-selling the book, and if you end up having to pay more than $10,000 then you end up underwater.

Essentially you and I would be taking opposite sides of an over/under bet on the auction results for that book.  I think that's a pretty decent analogy for short selling a stock?

[valiantman]

1 hour ago, blazingbob said:

Normally and I say this again if you want "investors" you normally price the equity below the value of the item.  If I'm splitting deals I'm not putting my partners in at a retail number,  I'm putting them in at the cost price.  We then both share in the upside.  Somehow I get the feeling that out of the gate the only one benefiting is the majority equity holder since he is offloading his cost onto the new shareholders.

If that model would work for you to build out, I'd be on board.  I have wanted the option to put $100 into a Silver Age key or $1,000 into a Golden Age key for decades.  "Private deals at cost" never popped up on the radar.  Was there an announcement somewhere that I missed, or is this just something that people who already have the means to purchase high dollar books do amongst themselves?  Having people like me putting $100 in a Silver Age key in your scenario doesn't seem like it would be worth your time.

[valiantman]

3 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

If you believe in cars or comics as an investment, you can own a positive percentage in equity.  You can't sell a positive percentage of an item you don't own, nor a derivative short sale of that item.  The cars and comics do exist.  The fact that derivatives don't exist isn't a flaw.

You could in theory short sell 100% of a comic ... but because investment-level comics are generally unique items (even 9.8s are not perfectly interchangeable), I think you'd have to be talking about a specific book for this to work fairly for both parties.

So let's say there's a particular book up for auction on a site like Heritage or ComicConnect, where you are guaranteed that you will win if you just commit to bidding over and over until all other bidders give up.  And then let's say you and I agree ahead of time that I will buy the book from you for $10,000 once the auction is done.  If you end up winning the book for less than $10,000, you will have successfully made a profit by short-selling the book, and if you end up having to pay more than $10,000 then you end up underwater.

Essentially you and I would be taking opposite sides of an over/under bet on the auction results for that book.  I think that's a pretty decent analogy for short selling a stock?

The point of RallyRd.com is that the participants can't afford a $10,000 book.  Otherwise, they would buy it outright.  Your scenario has two people who can afford $10,000, and the RallyRd scenario has a share of CGC 9.0 Daredevil #1 for $11.50 (coming soon).  About a hundred people will take part in the $11.50 shares for probably around $115 (on average) each, and it's unlikely that anyone with $10,000 to spend will even bother to think twice about it.  BIg books for big players has always been the problem.  Big books for small players has always been an opportunity... a big one.

[valiantman]

15 minutes ago, AnkurJ said:

This company does it with fine art

https://www.masterworks.io/dashboard/offerings
 

How long until they start looking at Ditko and Kirby?

Minimum investment at Masterworks.io is $10,000.  If you can afford to play around at that level, you can just buy Ditko and Kirby pieces outright.

[AnkurJ]

1 minute ago, valiantman said:

Minimum investment at Masterworks.io is $10,000.  If you can afford to play around at that level, you can just buy Ditko and Kirby pieces outright.

Not primo Kirby or Ditko Spider-Man.

[Sweet Lou 14]

7 minutes ago, valiantman said:

The point of RallyRd.com is that the participants can't afford a $10,000 book.  Otherwise, they would buy it outright.  Your scenario has two people who can afford $10,000, and the RallyRd scenario has a share of CGC 9.0 Daredevil #1 for $11.50 (coming soon).  About a hundred people will take part in the $11.50 shares for probably around $115 (on average) each, and it's unlikely that anyone with $10,000 to spend will even bother to think twice about it.  BIg books for big players has always been the problem.  Big books for small players has always been an opportunity... a big one.

I understand all that.

Would it have helped if I'd said the bet was for $100 instead of $10,000?  The principle is exactly the same.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Sweet Lou 14