Combined investment will cause Golden Age (Collectors) to explode 3 3

[valiantman]

Splitting this discussion from the RallyRd conversation: https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/472597-rallyrd-that-old-idea-about-partial-ownership-of-comics-is-a-reality-400k-in-2020-so-far/

 

 

I believe that the Golden Age, in particular (and key issues in other ages) is being held back significantly by the high entry point cost of collecting Golden Age.

There are very, very few key issues in the Golden Age available for under $5,000, and most amazing keys are $500,000+.  Who is participating in these markets?  Very few people.  At some point, I predict there will be a way for ANYONE with $10 or $100 to invest in a Golden Age key issue. 

Yes, it would take thousands of people with $10 each to buy a $20,000 comic, but some will spend $100, and some will spend $500.  When it is possible for anyone to put $10, $100, or $1,000 into Golden Age key issues... they will absolutely skyrocket in value.

I believe that the $3,200,000 copy of Action Comics #1 would probably sell out in minutes at $100 per share and 50,000 shares.  That would be $5,000,000... and if an electronic exchange existed for 24/7 sales, it would probably be $200 per share within a year.  That's $10,000,000, and there would be no upper limit until the Dentist's copy was made available in the same system.

Everyone who owns truly rare Golden Age comics (or art or anything of significance) should hang onto them and wait for this system to emerge.  You'll be able to "cash out" up to 49%, retain the majority ownership, and watch the value skyrocket. 

It is inevitable.

Edited September 1, 2021 by valiantman
Topic updated to reflect August 2021 reactions.

[sfcityduck]

23 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Splitting this discussion from the RallyRd conversation: https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/472597-rallyrd-that-old-idea-about-partial-ownership-of-comics-is-a-reality-400k-in-2020-so-far/

 

 

I believe that the Golden Age, in particular (and key issues in other ages) is being held back significantly by the high entry point cost of collecting Golden Age.

There are very, very few key issues in the Golden Age available for under $5,000, and most amazing keys are $500,000+.  Who is participating in these markets?  Very few people.  At some point, I predict there will be a way for ANYONE with $10 or $100 to invest in a Golden Age key issue. 

Yes, it would take thousands of people with $10 each to buy a $20,000 comic, but some will spend $100, and some will spend $500.  When it is possible for anyone to put $10, $100, or $1,000 into Golden Age key issues... they will absolutely skyrocket in value.

I believe that the $3,200,000 copy of Action Comics #1 would probably sell out in minutes at $100 per share and 50,000 shares.  That would be $5,000,000... and if an electronic exchange existed for 24/7 sales, it would probably be $200 per share within a year.  That's $10,000,000, and there would be no upper limit until the Dentist's copy was made available in the same system.

Everyone who owns truly rare Golden Age comics (or art or anything of significance) should hang onto them and wait for this system to emerge.  You'll be able to "cash out" up to 49%, retain the majority ownership, and watch the value skyrocket. 

It is inevitable.

Aside from dealers pooling some money to buy a comic for a relatively quick resell, I would be shocked if this ever became a thing.  Too many legal complications, too much expense, not enough profit, and none of the satisfaction of actually owning a comic.  

[OtherEric]

29 minutes ago, valiantman said:

 

It is inevitable.

It's farcical.  While I will undeniably admit a lot of people view investment as part of their collecting reasons, most people are collecting to, well, collect.  A few very high ticket books may get some buy-in for the novelty, but if I'm investing money in something I'll never actually get my hands on, it would be stocks or real estate or more liquid assets.  @sfcityduck said it well in the post right above this while I was typing my reply.

And you can still get your hands on key books, just not the handful of crazy huge ones. 

[OtherEric]

Just wanted to apologize to @valiantman... I initially reacted to his post with a "haha" reaction.  While I may feel the suggestion of sharing investment in a comic is ridiculous, he was presenting it seriously and laughing at it in the like box was rude of me.  I might make fun of the idea but responding like that to a serious post made it look like I was laughing at them personally, and I'm sorry.

[adamstrange]

The important question still unanswered is whether I can enter them into the CGC Registry.

[tth2]

10 hours ago, adamstrange said:

The important question still unanswered is whether I can enter them into the CGC Registry.

Yes, but you'll only get fractional points.

It'll be the Robinhood Registry.

Edited July 25, 2020 by tth2

[lou_fine]

5 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

Aside from dealers pooling some money to buy a comic for a relatively quick resell, I would be shocked if this ever became a thing.  Too many legal complications, too much expense, not enough profit, and none of the satisfaction of actually owning a comic.  

Yes, didn't we have Greg Buls or whoever it was tried something similar in the early to mid-90's in terms of attempting to set up some type of "mutual fund" for speculators to buy into all of the latest red hot books that were due to hit the shelves of the LCS's that week?    

Well, I believe we all know the eventual result of an idea like that.  

Edited July 25, 2020 by lou_fine

[adamstrange]

There have been a lot of schemes like this over the years but they are more likely to result in tears than cheers.

The most recent large scale one was in France where a guy tried to establish a fund in rare books and manuscripts.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/21/business/aristophil-lheritier-rare-books.html

Edited July 25, 2020 by adamstrange

[adamstrange]

7 hours ago, tth2 said:

Yes, but you'll only get fractional points.

But I can take full credit on Instagram!

[GermanFan]

A nice example of ownership sharing in the art world:

Art dealer Inigo Philbrick’s journey from a life of private jets and million-dollar auctions to an equally glamorous escape from fraud charges in the South Pacific has detoured to a rural Oklahoma jail.

[telerites]

25 minutes ago, GermanFan said:

a rural Oklahoma jail.

One of my favorite BBQ restaurants is in Chickasha about 40 minutes from OKC where I live.  Other than a successful NAIA collegiate men's basketball program, he may be one of the biggest attractions there 

[valiantman]

I'm just putting the board timestamp on my prediction.  I was online in 1989, on Ebay in 1997, and compiling CGC Census data in 2003.  People tend to catch up to my interests once they see the rest of the world follow.

[MrBedrock]

6 minutes ago, valiantman said:

I'm just putting the board timestamp on my prediction.  I was online in 1989, on Ebay in 1997, and compiling CGC Census data in 2003.  People tend to catch up to my interests once they see the rest of the world follow.

[Hollywood1892]

16 hours ago, valiantman said:

Splitting this discussion from the RallyRd conversation: https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/472597-rallyrd-that-old-idea-about-partial-ownership-of-comics-is-a-reality-400k-in-2020-so-far/

 

 

I believe that the Golden Age, in particular (and key issues in other ages) is being held back significantly by the high entry point cost of collecting Golden Age.

There are very, very few key issues in the Golden Age available for under $5,000, and most amazing keys are $500,000+.  Who is participating in these markets?  Very few people.  At some point, I predict there will be a way for ANYONE with $10 or $100 to invest in a Golden Age key issue. 

Yes, it would take thousands of people with $10 each to buy a $20,000 comic, but some will spend $100, and some will spend $500.  When it is possible for anyone to put $10, $100, or $1,000 into Golden Age key issues... they will absolutely skyrocket in value.

I believe that the $3,200,000 copy of Action Comics #1 would probably sell out in minutes at $100 per share and 50,000 shares.  That would be $5,000,000... and if an electronic exchange existed for 24/7 sales, it would probably be $200 per share within a year.  That's $10,000,000, and there would be no upper limit until the Dentist's copy was made available in the same system.

Everyone who owns truly rare Golden Age comics (or art or anything of significance) should hang onto them and wait for this system to emerge.  You'll be able to "cash out" up to 49%, retain the majority ownership, and watch the value skyrocket. 

It is inevitable.

You are really banking on this...how do you think investors will be able to see and touch a hard copy of their shares?

[valiantman]

Just now, Hollywood1892 said:

You are really banking on this...how do you think investors will be able to see and touch a hard copy of their shares?

Touch a bitcoin.

Touch gold when you invest in a mining company.

If you know what you've purchased, and see it in your portfolio, what's your fetish with feeling it on your skin?

[Hollywood1892]

8 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Touch a bitcoin.

Touch gold when you invest in a mining company.

If you know what you've purchased, and see it in your portfolio, what's your fetish with feeling it on your skin?

First two sentences were pretty astute third sentence made me laugh my head off

I guess we all just assume it's there, does Marvel have an IPO? Just saying that Marvel could do something like this or DC or even CGC, but then again alot of creators own shares in their company AKA Steve Jobs R.I.P 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Hollywood1892

[valiantman]

6 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

First two sentences were pretty astute third sentence made me laugh my head off

I guess we all just assume it's there, does Marvel have an IPO?

No assumptions necessary.  The right company will come along (maybe RallyRd, maybe someone else) and they'll have the SEC filings, the FINRA/SIPC brokers, a 24/7 digital exchange, and they'll be bigger than a bunch of other companies in no time.  The assets will remain in secured locations, under guard, insured, same as they are now.

People want to separate "collector" from "investor" but an investor with a personal connection to his investment is a stable animal.  People daytrading stocks don't care about their childhood in their investments.  Owning 100 shares in Microsoft doesn't make you a computer expert.

Owning the equivalent amount of Action Comics #1 or Detective #27 would make you an investor in something you've got a lifetime collecting, stepping up from the "Class Q" shares of lower books you own some percentage of the number existing, to "Class A" shares of the best that exists in the industry.

 

It's not "collector" or "investor".  When books are $5,000+, you have to be both a collector and an investor to own them outright.  For $10 a share, on the correct platform, anyone can be both.

It will be a big deal.

Raw price, CGC price, and exchange price.  They are 3 different things.

Raw books can become CGC books. CGC books will be come exchange books.  People will buy what they like at any dollar amount they choose.  That's the future of hobbies. Comics, cards, coins, cars, and maybe even another letter of the alphabet besides "c".

[MrBedrock]

31 minutes ago, valiantman said:

No assumptions necessary.  The right company will come along (maybe RallyRd, maybe someone else) and they'll have the SEC filings, the FINRA/SIPC brokers, a 24/7 digital exchange, and they'll be bigger than a bunch of other companies in no time.  The assets will remain in secured locations, under guard, insured, same as they are now.

People want to separate "collector" from "investor" but an investor with a personal connection to his investment is a stable animal.  People daytrading stocks don't care about their childhood in their investments.  Owning 100 shares in Microsoft doesn't make you a computer expert.

Owning the equivalent amount of Action Comics #1 or Detective #27 would make you an investor in something you've got a lifetime collecting, stepping up from the "Class Q" shares of lower books you own some percentage of the number existing, to "Class A" shares of the best that exists in the industry.

 

It's not "collector" or "investor".  When books are $5,000+, you have to be both a collector and an investor to own them outright.  For $10 a share, on the correct platform, anyone can be both.

It will be a big deal.

Raw price, CGC price, and exchange price.  They are 3 different things.

Raw books can become CGC books. CGC books will be come exchange books.  People will buy what they like at any dollar amount they choose.  That's the future of hobbies. Comics, cards, coins, cars, and maybe even another letter of the alphabet besides "c".

The problem with your analysis is that there is a cap on the possible investment material that would apply to the theory. Take all of the ultra high value comics that could be potential candidates for this type of investment. What is that total value? Given that the total back issue market is estimated at a billion would it be $200 million? I think that would be the upper limit. Next one would have to fund the investment vehicle to acquire the material. The initial investment would have to be significant. Then there would be management fees and transaction fees to maintain the investment for a large number of clients. Then the ultimate problem, how to disperse the material in a system that would make the investment at liquid as possible. Now consider all of the fees that would be required to achieve all of those steps. Some percentage of $200 million isn't enough money to make that whole scenario profitable for any significant period of time.

 

 

[valiantman]

4 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

The problem with your analysis is that there is a cap on the possible investment material that would apply to the theory. Take all of the ultra high value comics that could be potential candidates for this type of investment. What is that total value? Given that the total back issue market is estimated at a billion would it be $200 million? I think that would be the upper limit. Next one would have to fund the investment vehicle to acquire the material. The initial investment would have to be significant. Then there would be management fees and transaction fees to maintain the investment for a large number of clients. Then the ultimate problem, how to disperse the material in a system that would make the investment at liquid as possible. Now consider all of the fees that would be required to achieve all of those steps. Some percentage of $200 million isn't enough money to make that whole scenario profitable for any significant period of time.

 

 

Now you're talking.

 

One-third of U.S. museums are in danger of closing permanently due to covid.  What if all the items in there had shares on a digital exchange?  See a painting you like? Invest!  Buy a litho in the gift shop on your way out.  Museums as investment shopping.  That's a trillion dollars of assets, instead, since $200M is too low. Donors/foundations still retain majority ownership, free up capital, and the items stay right where they are.

[MrBedrock]

3 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Now you're talking.

 

One-third of U.S. museums are in danger of closing permanently due to covid.  What if all the items in there had shares on a digital exchange?  See a painting you like? Invest!  Buy a litho in the gift shop on your way out.  Museums as investment shopping.  That's a trillion dollars of assets, instead, since $200M is too low. Donors/foundations still retain majority ownership, free up capital, and the items stay right where they are.

In an economy where museums are in danger of closing the folks who might invest $100 in a virtual comic will probably be more interested in saving their money in case they need it for survival gear.