Combined investment will cause Golden Age (Collectors) to explode 3 3

[valiantman]

24 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

30 minutes ago, valiantman said:

I like surfing through the GPA prices from the early days, and it is very rare to find a GPA sales record for a key issue that wouldn't be a great deal today.

No argument here with respect to the key or classic cover books.  

It was really more with respect to the non-key lower demand books that some collectors were also just throwing ridiculous multiples to guide for as everybody was scrambing around trying to figure out where the certified market was going to go back then.  

The earlier discussion was about paying a premium upfront (20%?) to have partial ownership in otherwise unaffordable key issues.  If the goal is long-term holding, say 10-to-30 years, then the 20% premium doesn't seem like it would be a problem since GPA clearly shows that keys which could have been purchased in 2001-2002 for a 20% premium would still be high above those marks 18+ years later.  If "time is money" then getting into a key issue now (at a 20% premium) could still be a good deal compared to never getting any ownership or saving up for a key which could be more than 20% higher by the time you get the cash.

[Randall Dowling]

There's an evangelistic quality to this thread.  I've always been of the mind that most things of value should not need so much selling.  They sell themselves.  

[MrBedrock]

1 hour ago, Randall Dowling said:

There's an evangelistic quality to this thread.

Amen!

[N e r V]

1 hour ago, Randall Dowling said:

There's an evangelistic quality to this thread.  I've always been of the mind that most things of value should not need so much selling.  They sell themselves.  

 

8 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

Amen!

I agree...

[Cat-Man_America]

6 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

Amen!

I know a profit when I see one! 

[MrBedrock]

1 hour ago, Cat-Man_America said:

I know a profit when I see one! 

[D84]

4 hours ago, Randall Dowling said:

There's an evangelistic quality to this thread.

[tth2]

10 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Why not.......ask and ye shall receive.  I guess you must have been a good little boy and the comic Gods are about to answer your prayers and grant you your wish here.

I just talked to the collector who forked over $2,500 for his CGC 9.8 graded copy of Shadow Comics 1 (can't remember if it was the Kuluta version   or the Chaykin version   ) and he is willing to bite the bullet and begrudgingly let you have it at the exact same $2,500 figure that he had paid for it when CGC first opened their doors way back in 2000.  

...............the money, that is.  

I remember the good old days of seeing, uh, "enthusiastic" younger collectors marveling at a book being in NM/M condition... from the 1970s! 

I didn't have the heart to tell them that they never saw super high grade copies of these books at conventions and such because it wasn't worth the hassle of bringing them, not because they were genuinely rare.

[Black Bat]

On 7/29/2020 at 4:04 PM, N e r V said:

I saw it numerous times before the 2013 sale thanks to some family connections. Probably the best thing about it and the Green Hornet car were they were real cars that could be taken out. A lot of Hollywood cars since are more props than real cars. 
 

Not something I’d ever want to own though. To many other vintage cars worth owning at that price IMO. 
 

Probably a childhood fantasy for me would be taking these out on a track one weekend. I’d be fine with either car...

 

 

 

No way- Snake any day!

[Dr. Love]

On 7/24/2020 at 3:01 PM, valiantman said:

I believe that the Golden Age, in particular (and key issues in other ages) is being held back significantly by the high entry point cost of collecting Golden Age.

There are very, very few key issues in the Golden Age available for under $5,000, and most amazing keys are $500,000+.  Who is participating in these markets?  Very few people.  At some point, I predict there will be a way for ANYONE with $10 or $100 to invest in a Golden Age key issue. 

Yes, it would take thousands of people with $10 each to buy a $20,000 comic, but some will spend $100, and some will spend $500.  When it is possible for anyone to put $10, $100, or $1,000 into Golden Age key issues... they will absolutely skyrocket in value.

I believe that the $3,200,000 copy of Action Comics #1 would probably sell out in minutes at $100 per share and 50,000 shares.  That would be $5,000,000... and if an electronic exchange existed for 24/7 sales, it would probably be $200 per share within a year.  That's $10,000,000, and there would be no upper limit until the Dentist's copy was made available in the same system.

Everyone who owns truly rare Golden Age comics (or art or anything of significance) should hang onto them and wait for this system to emerge.  You'll be able to "cash out" up to 49%, retain the majority ownership, and watch the value skyrocket. 

It is inevitable.

 

What should be inevitable is that, in the midst of this discussion, valiantman get the recognition he deserves for the service he provides the collecting community.  The data he presents, and from time to time his cogent analysis, is world class.   It's provided free of charge and subsidized by his passion for our hobby.

CGC sent out their latest Industry News email highlighting his most recent insightful piece.

Thanks Doc, for all you do!

https://comics.gpanalysis.com/news/2020/how-far-do-cgc-average-grades-drop-as-comics-get-older

[pemart1966]

On 7/29/2020 at 12:44 PM, N e r V said:

Just a thought but Superman’s dad actually drove the Batmobile before Batman ever did!

Not in the comics, where it counts, he didn't.

[eschnit]

On 7/25/2020 at 12:21 PM, N e r V said:

That “emotional value” you talk about is what I call over paying for something you want ssooo bad....

Don’t catch me doing that on stocks...

Not the same animal, but it happens with stocks all the time 

[eschnit]

On 7/27/2020 at 6:42 PM, sfcityduck said:

Only 8 public sales have topped $1 million.  5 Action 1, 1 D27, 1 MC 1, 1 AF 15 (and that appears an outlier now).

How many can we add to this number in the last year?  

[Professor K]

On 8/24/2021 at 8:36 AM, eschnit said:

How many can we add to this number in the last year?  

2- Tec 27's, 2- Batman 1's as far as I see. 

[Chicago Boy]

On 8/24/2021 at 1:30 PM, Professor Chaos said:

2- Tec 27's, 2- Batman 1's as far as I see. 

and soon to be another af 15

[Mmehdy]

On 7/24/2020 at 3:01 PM, valiantman said:

Splitting this discussion from the RallyRd conversation: https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/472597-rallyrd-that-old-idea-about-partial-ownership-of-comics-is-a-reality-400k-in-2020-so-far/

 

 

I believe that the Golden Age, in particular (and key issues in other ages) is being held back significantly by the high entry point cost of collecting Golden Age.

There are very, very few key issues in the Golden Age available for under $5,000, and most amazing keys are $500,000+.  Who is participating in these markets?  Very few people.  At some point, I predict there will be a way for ANYONE with $10 or $100 to invest in a Golden Age key issue. 

Yes, it would take thousands of people with $10 each to buy a $20,000 comic, but some will spend $100, and some will spend $500.  When it is possible for anyone to put $10, $100, or $1,000 into Golden Age key issues... they will absolutely skyrocket in value.

I believe that the $3,200,000 copy of Action Comics #1 would probably sell out in minutes at $100 per share and 50,000 shares.  That would be $5,000,000... and if an electronic exchange existed for 24/7 sales, it would probably be $200 per share within a year.  That's $10,000,000, and there would be no upper limit until the Dentist's copy was made available in the same system.

Everyone who owns truly rare Golden Age comics (or art or anything of significance) should hang onto them and wait for this system to emerge.  You'll be able to "cash out" up to 49%, retain the majority ownership, and watch the value skyrocket. 

It is inevitable.

I agree 100%, fractional digital comic book investing is coming, especially if prices continue to grow as they have the last year . It will first be the high grade Mega Keys, then as demand and prices go up for those the mid grade keys will be next. The TCBC will be left in the dust on those mega keys. yes we can still collect, and buy and trade but some of those Key GA/SA will be untouchable. For the last 10 years, I have said buy CAP #1, BUY Cap #1..there is a 4.0 blue in the upcoming HA auction and my advice is BUY IT today..., 10 years from now, all of you that want the great GA comic book and can afford it, even on time payments, will be crying...I should of listened to MM. Digital investment is will just add flame to the fire here. Small effect or Large effect Cap 1 will continue to go up, especially more affordable 4.0 copies. So, I think as world money systems get used to the digital way and convert, so will all forms of investment and persons who, without say 3M could have a piece of Action 1. Great forwarding looking post.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Mmehdy

[valiantman]

On 8/24/2021 at 3:32 PM, Mmehdy said:

I agree 100%, fractional digital comic book investing is coming, especially if prices continue to grow as they have the last year . It will first be the high grade Mega Keys, then as demand and prices go up for those the mid grade keys will be next. The TCBC will be left in the dust on those mega keys. yes we can still collect, and buy and trade but some of those Key GA/SA will be untouchable. For the last 10 years, I have said buy CAP #1, BUY Cap #1..there is a 4.0 blue in the upcoming HA auction and my advice is BUY IT today..., 10 years from now, all of you that want the great GA comic book and can afford it, even on time payments, will be crying...I should of listened to MM. Digital investment is will just add flame to the fire here. Small effect or Large effect Cap 1 will continue to go up, especially more affordable 4.0 copies. So, I think as world money systems get used to the digital way and convert, so will all forms of investment and persons who, without say 3M could have a piece of Action 1. Great forwarding looking post.

Thanks for the compliments.

I had the idea for fractional ownership of completely unobtainable items (like the Mona Lisa) more than 20 years ago.  I also had zero chance of making it a reality, too little money, connections, time, and salesmanship. It would take a team of committed and experienced people to get the ball rolling, and I was one guy in my 20s who had to work to support my family.  It wouldn't be me. 

I knew it would happen someday (maybe not with the Mona Lisa, but certainly for big ticket items that are unobtainable to 99.99% of people), and I'd just have to wait until it did to take part.  The concept would inevitably work its way down from $100,000,000+ paintings to items in the five-figure or six-figure range, particularly for items that are rare like some Golden Age key issues.  It won't be a fully-legit concept until it's established and backed as well as stock exchanges are now, with 24/7 trading, and far bigger than the versions of the idea that already exist (RallyRd, Otis, Mythic Markets, masterworks.io, etc.).

The fact that cryptocurrency has developed first, and already exceeded a two trillion dollar market size, still astonishes me.  How the crypto market of owning ones-and-zeroes (owning nothing) emerged ahead of owning a fraction in a legitimate asset (part of something) seems completely backwards.  However, the physical asset will require physical security, insurance, trust, etc., where cryptocurrency is just ones-and-zeroes... it's much easier to make a copy of a museum's inventory data than it is to secure and protect all the items in the museum.

[sfcityduck]

On 8/24/2021 at 1:32 PM, Mmehdy said:

I agree 100%, fractional digital comic book investing is coming, especially if prices continue to grow as they have the last year . It will first be the high grade Mega Keys, then as demand and prices go up for those the mid grade keys will be next. The TCBC will be left in the dust on those mega keys. yes we can still collect, and buy and trade but some of those Key GA/SA will be untouchable. For the last 10 years, I have said buy CAP #1, BUY Cap #1..there is a 4.0 blue in the upcoming HA auction and my advice is BUY IT today..., 10 years from now, all of you that want the great GA comic book and can afford it, even on time payments, will be crying...I should of listened to MM. Digital investment is will just add flame to the fire here. Small effect or Large effect Cap 1 will continue to go up, especially more affordable 4.0 copies. So, I think as world money systems get used to the digital way and convert, so will all forms of investment and persons who, without say 3M could have a piece of Action 1. Great forwarding looking post.

Fractional digital ownership is not collecting.  It is not even ownership of a physical piece of an Action 1 (like the board member who owns a the piece of the cover with the "1").  All you own is a non-tangible "right" to some payoff if the underlying book ever is sold.  But, the way the Evangelists talk on this site it is as if you really do own an Action 1 in the sense that a collector thinks of ownership.  That's not the reality.  You can't read it, touch it, or even sell it if you are a fractional owner.  But, we're going to hear a lot of folks claim they own an Action 1 when they really don't.  It brings to mind the line from The Incredibles that "if everyone's special, than no one is."  When the world has tens of thousands of people claiming they "own" an Action 1, it risks dampening the upside of owning an Action 1 which, let's be real, is largely based on the boasting rights of being a member of a small group.  

[sfcityduck]

On 8/24/2021 at 3:43 PM, valiantman said:

The fact that cryptocurrency has developed first, and already exceeded a two trillion dollar market size, still astonishes me.  How the crypto market of owning ones-and-zeroes (owning nothing) emerged ahead of owning a fraction in a legitimate asset (part of something) seems completely backwards.  However, the physical asset will require physical security, insurance, trust, etc., where cryptocurrency is just ones-and-zeroes... it's much easier to make a copy of a museum's inventory data than it is to secure and protect all the items in the museum.

Crypto currency only has real tangible value to criminals and terrorists.  That's where the value comes from.  Everyone else is just along for the ride.  It has no analogy to a stock or fractional ownership of a tangible asset.  

Crypto technology has lots of tangible value for use as a tool, most obviously in the realm of security. But that's an entirely different animal from the currency.

[eschnit]

On 8/24/2021 at 5:54 PM, sfcityduck said:

Fractional digital ownership is not collecting.  It is not even ownership of a physical piece of an Action 1 (like the board member who owns a the piece of the cover with the "1").  All you own is a non-tangible "right" to some payoff if the underlying book ever is sold.  But, the way the Evangelists talk on this site it is as if you really do own an Action 1 in the sense that a collector thinks of ownership.  That's not the reality.  You can't read it, touch it, or even sell it if you are a fractional owner.  But, we're going to hear a lot of folks claim they own an Action 1 when they really don't.  It brings to mind the line from The Incredibles that "if everyone's special, than no one is."  When the world has tens of thousands of people claiming they "own" an Action 1, it risks dampening the upside of owning an Action 1 which, let's be real, is largely based on the boasting rights of being a member of a small group.  

I think that I agree with both sides here, if that’s possible.  It will inevitably happen.  I see signs of it pop-up on Instagram or other places from time to time.  Certainly it’s more tangible than a NFT, which is frankly owning nothing to me.  
 

At least if you own a portion of a tangible asset, you’re a part owner of that thing you can hold.  Somebody paid an ungodly amount, I can’t remember the exact number, maybe near $100 million, for a NFT.  Granted, it was this digital art that a talented artist worked on for years and years.  But it’s still a f**king digital thing.  Which to me equals nothing.  But obviously not everyone feels the same way I do.  I think it’s being sold off by the owner in parts now.  
 

Similarly, I don’t have an interest in being a part owner in something so I can say I’m a part owner. Or as a bet on the future of the book.  But plenty of the rest of the world will feel differently.  The upcoming generations will likely embrace it more.

For me, I saw I believe it was one of like 5 existing copies of the Declaration of Independence being sold in parts in this way.  Somehow that intrigued me, hypocritical as that may be.  Perhaps if it became so universal that everyone was doing it, I may embrace, but wouldn’t be an early adopter. And I would think the Mona Lisa or a Frazetta oil would happen before comics.   I don’t know, maybe slippery slope.