Tradd Moore Surfer Drop July 25, 2020 2 2

[PhilipB2k17]

7 minutes ago, Varanis said:

I've wondered about this to, but it's a really risky proposition. To make this play you have to KNOW a C grade panel page from the book will have demand going forward. That can't be said for very many books, and for the few it can be said for, I'd say even fewer were predictable. Silver Surfer: Black is the only recent book I can think of where the art was just so staggeringly good that you could expect an exceptionally high baseline even from the worst of pages. Even Tradd's other book don't meet the bar. There are no talking heads pages in SS:B while Tradd has had many a talking heads page sit for sale for years.

Other books where this might have worked: Stegman Venom (a bit hit or miss, but there were a lot of hits), Shaw Thanos (you had to have a good read on this one early on), DWJ Wonder Woman: Dead Earth (these are fetching pretty lofty prices complete, so the jig is up already here), any others? All take a bit of foresight and garner a large bill of risk.

Those are all Felix guys. And the other common denominator is that they are Big Two books. 

I think the recent Bill Sinkiewicz New Mutants book would have been another one. 

Also, a complete Romita Jr book from the recent Frank Miller Superman story. 

Very, very unlikely to see that in an independent book. Even popular ones. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by PhilipB2k17

[Varanis]

1 minute ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Those are all Felix guys. And the other common denominator is that they are BigT wo books. 

I think the recent Bill Sinkiewicz New Mutants book would have been another one. 

Also, a complete Romira Jr book from the recent Frank Miller Superman story. 
 

I'll confess I have a lot more exposure to Felix and Inky Knuckles' artists as they tend to do the art for the books I enjoy.

I remember reading about the recent Bill S New Mutants book. I think those sold for a lot of $$$?

Not familiar with the Superman book, but that combo of creators definitely sounds like it would be a good recipe.

[First Upgrade]

23 minutes ago, Varanis said:

Other books where this might have worked: Stegman Venom (a bit hit or miss, but there were a lot of hits), Shaw Thanos (you had to have a good read on this one early on), DWJ Wonder Woman: Dead Earth (these are fetching pretty lofty prices complete, so the jig is up already here), any others?

...perhaps Klein Thor(2020)...written by Donny Cates, who also penned Silver Surfer: Black...

[dichotomy]

Seems like a good place for a repost - I also tried for pages but got locked out. In his chat yesterday Felix mentioned almost 200 requests for the 16 pieces. 
 

 

[vodou]

2 hours ago, dichotomy said:

Felix mentioned almost 200 requests for the 16 pieces. 

That's actually a really thin market.

(In part due to sticker shock I'm sure.)

 

Will that market (200ish?) continue to expand, stagnate, or contract over time? At this and higher price levels?

I suggest placing the knee-jerk reply on pause for a moment and actually thinking about this a bit.

Those that love (and can afford) are very happy right now. But when it's resale time in 3-5 years, hey what do I know (?) but I'm interested in seeing how the achieved -realized, not ask- numbers play out...

[NC101]

47 minutes ago, vodou said:

That's actually a really thin market.

(In part due to sticker shock I'm sure.)

 

Will that market (200ish?) continue to expand, stagnate, or contract over time? At this and higher price levels?

That's also 200 requests, not 200 people. Who knows how many of those were the same people making multiple requests for pages

[grapeape]

3 hours ago, dichotomy said:

Seems like a good place for a repost - I also tried for pages but got locked out. In his chat yesterday Felix mentioned almost 200 requests for the 16 pieces. 
 

 

Your presentation Last year of SSB 3 and how you lovingly put it together the way you did ⬆️ was the highlight of the year for me. Check it out folks some of the loveliest and mind blowing pages of art you’ll see.

wow 🍇 + 🦍 

[Will_K]

1 hour ago, NC101 said:

That's also 200 requests, not 200 people. Who knows how many of those were the same people making multiple requests for pages

The "actual" number of requests/people would be higher.  The checkout system locks out people when the piece goes on "hold" so even more people were turned away (too late).

It's nice that Felix seems to be responding to all requests and breaking the bad news.  I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't do that. 

[grapeape]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

That's actually a really thin market.

(In part due to sticker shock I'm sure.)

 

Will that market (200ish?) continue to expand, stagnate, or contract over time? At this and higher price levels?

I suggest placing the knee-jerk reply on pause for a moment and actually thinking about this a bit.

Those that love (and can afford) are very happy right now. But when it's resale time in 3-5 years, hey what do I know (?) but I'm interested in seeing how the achieved -realized, not ask- numbers play out...

That’s always a consideration when you chase “hot” artwork. For me the acid test will come when a page(s) come up for sale the first time on Heritage Auctions. The same 200 interested and motivated devotees of Tradd Moore clash with unknown interested parties(investors, dealers). No getting shut out 5 seconds after a “drop.” Whoever makes the last bid wins. These pages could achieve staggering financial results. They may also sell close to what Felix sold them for and would be considered a flop.

As we digest the results of that first auction, the next test is when those same pages sold show up on Romitaman or another dealer site with a higher price tag. Or the pages come back again for a second go round at HA or Comiclink.

If the money realized is F + U money will that draw out the remaining pages held privately at this time? 

Felix is the driving engine in these drops. However there is no doubt the fuel running this thing comes from collectors and their organic desire to own at least one page from the five books.

Thanks Vodou,

Always thoughtful and wise commentary when it comes to evaluating the ebb and flow of the comic art market. How much you spend and on what is always important. There almost always comes a day when you will have to consider reselling a page. Will the market be right for you when you want (need) to sell in five years? Ten?

Theses Tradd Moore pages are lovely though. Whenever I look at a page that strikes my fancy I think, “there’s something special taking place here.”

I think many of those 200  souls on July 25, 2020(I suspect more) have strong visceral reactions to this artwork. A lot may depend on what happens in Tradd’s career. Will he produce more work this beloved. Will Tradd in twenty years be considered one of the great comic artists? Or is SSB his one time masterpiece?
 

Ive said enough. I’ve said too much.

Thanks all this was an exciting weekend. I’m still waiting to hear from  anyone lucky enough to have snagged a page, DPS or the cover.......

[grapeape]

6 minutes ago, Will_K said:

The "actual" number of requests/people would be higher.  The checkout system locks out people when the piece goes on "hold" so even more people were turned away (too late).

It's nice that Felix seems to be responding to all requests and breaking the bad news.  I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't do that. 

I’ve heard from Felix twice. He’s been absolutely great about it. He’s very professional.

🍇 + 🦍 

[vodou]

5 minutes ago, grapeape said:

They may also sell close to what Felix sold them for and would be considered a flop.

Tradd is Tradd and nobody would confuse him with Nick Pitarra (nor vice versa) but that buttload of Manhattan Projects that hit the last ComicLink, except for the cover, all sold below Felix price. These originals are all 5+ years old, right? I am not familiar with Pitarra's market (the rise, the fall, the whatever...no idea), nor Manhattan Projects (though I've heard good things and the first two hardcovers are in the "to read" pile), but maybe those more familiar with both could speak to what's going on? I can guess that the venue might not be ideal, that the series is "dead" (and not Big Two) might not be ideal, that Pitarra ain't "hot" anymore...but really all just guesses. Anybody super deep into Pitarra and Manhattan want to fill us all in? I think some parallels could be drawn...?

[SquareChaos]

1 hour ago, grapeape said:

A lot may depend on what happens in Tradd’s career. Will he produce more work this beloved. Will Tradd in twenty years be considered one of the great comic artists? Or is SSB his one time masterpiece?

Tradd started out strong and has trended up in my opinion. However, I will add this subject matter suits his style better than anything else I've seen him work on including Venom and Luther Strode.

[John E.]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

Tradd is Tradd and nobody would confuse him with Nick Pitarra (nor vice versa) but that buttload of Manhattan Projects that hit the last ComicLink, except for the cover, all sold below Felix price. These originals are all 5+ years old, right? I am not familiar with Pitarra's market (the rise, the fall, the whatever...no idea), nor Manhattan Projects (though I've heard good things and the first two hardcovers are in the "to read" pile), but maybe those more familiar with both could speak to what's going on? I can guess that the venue might not be ideal, that the series is "dead" (and not Big Two) might not be ideal, that Pitarra ain't "hot" anymore...but really all just guesses. Anybody super deep into Pitarra and Manhattan want to fill us all in? I think some parallels could be drawn...?

Thanks for bringing this up. A lot of art from the roster seemed to have been sold at once. These were pages published around 2013-2015. A lot of these were pieces sat on the site for a while before the site got hot, so I remember a lot of the asking prices. Some pieces performed well like Tradd’s Ghost Rider cover and Aaron Conley’s Battleworld Wolverine pieces. Other took losses but not too badly. Like $200 pieces going for $120. Ultimately, what didn’t help was so much was everything being sold at once. And it doesn’t instill confidence in new art...buy what you will still love in 5 years folks. There’s nothing new I’m saying here, in fact, I think someone here recently said that the persons involved in the first sale of art are probably the ones who will ever make the most money out of it. Lastly, that was a lot of Manhattan Projects pages sold at once which didn’t help with prices and there’s still some in the current auction.

As an addendum, I was never interested in MP original art and I didn’t pay too much attention to original prices or the hammers. Maybe these current ones broke even, maybe they made a little bit of profit. It just didn’t seem to me like they sold for multiples of the original price  

 

[SquareChaos]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

Tradd is Tradd and nobody would confuse him with Nick Pitarra (nor vice versa) but that buttload of Manhattan Projects that hit the last ComicLink, except for the cover, all sold below Felix price. These originals are all 5+ years old, right? I am not familiar with Pitarra's market (the rise, the fall, the whatever...no idea), nor Manhattan Projects (though I've heard good things and the first two hardcovers are in the "to read" pile), but maybe those more familiar with both could speak to what's going on? I can guess that the venue might not be ideal, that the series is "dead" (and not Big Two) might not be ideal, that Pitarra ain't "hot" anymore...but really all just guesses. Anybody super deep into Pitarra and Manhattan want to fill us all in? I think some parallels could be drawn...?

MP is following a normal trend. The best pages are still sought out by collectors. The nice double-Einstein splash up just prior to this auction went for around $1500 - I think that is reasonable considering the hype that was around the book when the original bigger numbers were realised on initial drops. Also, as you mention, the fact that it is a 'dead' property (though I've heard multiple times that they'll revisit), and it is an indie that just trailed off after a final mini.

I'm personally a big fan of Nick and would like to see him back on a monthly book. That would also probably bump his secondary market. He has what looks like some nice work in Immortal Hulk 33. 

 

Edit: corrected typos

Edited July 27, 2020 by SquareChaos

[John E.]

7 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

MP is following a normal trend. The best pages are still sought out by collectors. The nice double-Einstein splash up just prior to this auction went for around $1500 - I think that is reasonable considering the hype that was around the book when the original bigger numbers were realised on initial drops. Also, as you mention, the fact that it is a 'dead' property (though I've heard multiple times that they'll revisit), and it is an indie that just trailed off after a final mini.

I'm personally a big fan of Nick and would like to see him back on a monthly book. That would also probably bump his secondary market. He has what looks like some nice work coming in Immortal Hulk 33. 

 

 

I read the first two volumes but I don’t remember names (which character is named Manhattan, by the way?) 

The character whose head is a skull in a jar seems to fetch a premium. 

[SquareChaos]

32 minutes ago, John E. said:

I read the first two volumes but I don’t remember names (which character is named Manhattan, by the way?) 

The character whose head is a skull in a jar seems to fetch a premium. 

No one is named Manhattan, Hickman used the ushering in of the Atomic Age and the atomic bomb-producing Manhattan Project as a springboard for his science (and scientists) run amok story.

Hickman stays somewhat connected to the reality of the time by using actual scientists, politicians, and events from history (the JFK assassination etc).

Nick, who I have seen bemoan years spent drawing sweaty old men , did great cartooning work designing characters for Feynman, Einstein, Fermi, and even administrative figures like Leslie Groves.

The monthly is easily one of my favorite series of the last decade, I was disappointed when it went to a mini and completely unsurprised when it vanished shortly after that.

[Varanis]

1 hour ago, SquareChaos said:

Tradd started out strong and has trended up in my opinion. However, I will add this subject matter suits his style better than anything else I've seen him work on including Venom and Luther Strode.

This so much. All of Tradd's art is great, but Ghost Rider, New World, Luther Strode, etc all have a lot of talking heads pages. Tradd is fine at those, but they don't let his work shine. Whatever he's working on next, I hope it's at least as wild and cosmic as SS:B.

[grapeape]

28 minutes ago, Varanis said:

This so much. All of Tradd's art is great, but Ghost Rider, New World, Luther Strode, etc all have a lot of talking heads pages. Tradd is fine at those, but they don't let his work shine. Whatever he's working on next, I hope it's at least as wild and cosmic as SS:B.

That’s exactly right. Talking head pieces are ok but Tradd obviously hit his stride with the fluid SSB work. 
 

Love to see what else he does especially the next five years or so.

[John E.]

1 hour ago, SquareChaos said:

No one is named Manhattan, Hickman used the ushering in of the Atomic Age and the atomic bomb-producing Manhattan Project as a springboard for his science (and scientists) run amok story.

Hickman stays somewhat connected to the reality of the time by using actual scientists, politicians, and events from history (the JFK assassination etc).

Nick, who I have seen bemoan years spent drawing sweaty old men , did great cartooning work designing characters for Feynman, Einstein, Fermi, and even administrative figures like Leslie Groves.

The monthly is easily one of my favorite series of the last decade, I was disappointed when it went to a mini and completely unsurprised when it vanished shortly after that.

Sorry! That was meant to be tongue-in-cheek! 

[SquareChaos]

21 minutes ago, John E. said:

Sorry! That was meant to be tongue-in-cheek! 

I thought that may be the case but wasn't sure - I didn't want to answer in a way that might have been rude