Foolkiller is no Fool

[arexcrooke]

Very good sentiments and it just goes to the heart of collect what you want and what makes you happy.

[tth2]

I already owned non-high grade slabs, so I'm only cracking 8.0s and 8.5s to be put in mylars. TomMurane makes a good point when he says a) books look better in mylars and b) to be sure about the archival quality, put it in a mylar.

Brian, a very good post and I can definitely understand where you're coming from. CGC needs to make some structural changes and greater transparency is needed. When someone does something wrong, then they need to be outed, whether by these boards, CGC or other dealers. Enough of this code of silence that has only served to protect the guilty and harm collectors.

 

The reason I excerpted the above statement of yours, however, is I wonder whether you are cutting your nose to spite your face. Perhaps you felt it was important to make a symbolic gesture to express the frustration and dispair you feel right now. And I understand how that can sometimes trump logic.

 

But, rationally speaking, I'm not sure cracking the books out achieves your ends. It doesn't make it any less sure that the books have not been tampered with. And if you ever choose to sell those books and want to slab them, all you've done is ensure that you'll have to get them reslabbed, which means you'll have to pay money to CGC and wait an eternity to get them back.

 

If people want to really take effective action, then they should stop submitting books to CGC and stop purchasing slabbed books. Cracking books out of slabs doesn't impact CGC in the slightest and actually plays into their hands.

[tth2]

I was approached by one of the principle players in the FF3 thread and presented with an intial query regarding whether I would be interested in working with said party to basically pre-screen scans, in order to pre-empt the kind of situation that has arisen over the past week. I would be paid to do a search for any scans that might be connected with a book that was about to be purchased or marketed and cause the kind of situation that revealed itself last Saturday.

 

I declined the offer for a variety of reasons.

 

One thing I would like to see come out of this, is for CGC to come to the collectors and finally listen to some suggestions. We've poured out dozens of them on the boards. Some great...some inane!

 

I think that when CGC made the choice to officially recognize the practice of pressing, they didn't stop to think that it wouldn't end there. CGC has provided, perhaps unwittingly, the dishonest dealer with every incentive in the world to try to beat the system.

 

Massage the book. Squeeze out the next grade level. The monetary rewards are so great, an honest dealer feels like a lumpkin watching the other dealers feed off the system and the buyers. As all the high grade books get pressed, it's natural for some dishonest minds to try to figure out "what can I do next?" You have one answer to that question with the two FFs.

 

From the many pms and emails I've gotten, it is clear that the CGC restoration team is vulnerable to being taken. (And please, no more committee-written responses, CGC.) It's also clear that MANY folks are disgusted.

 

I have a few ideas for CGC at this time.....

 

• I suggest that you immediately take the initiative...PUBLICLY...to start researching and comparing scans of any high profile / high dollar book that comes across their grading table. Start with pedigree books....they are the easiest ones to document. I also suggest starting a database of scans of any high profile graded books that comes to CGC for grading. And hire someone to keep an eye out. Go on the offensive. You're not going to catch them all, but in the end it sends a message to collectors and the crooks out there that you're aggressively on the case.

 

• I would suggest that you make more information about the roots of the FF3 and FF10 debacle available. Or realize that doubts are going to linger for a very very long time. By naming the comic book equivalent of Jeffrey Dahmer as the culprit in this latest case, nothing has been clarified and nothing has been settled. He's unreachable for his side of the story. I've tried, with no results so far. I would get Heritage on the case and have them make an exception regarding the paperwork on this one.

 

• I would encourage a more open relationship between CGC and collectors. The setup of Chris Freisen's business smacks of elitism, favoritism and secrecy and severely weakens the base that CGC was supposedly set up on....trust. You guys have got to start thinking outside the slab.

 

I've got plenty more suggestions, but I'll limit it to these for now.

 

Brad

Brad, great post! Could not agree with you more on everything you've stated.

[Red Hook]

Thanks, Tim.

[tth2]

I empathize with the desire to be rid of the "label-mania". Nothing beats being able to hold and look through a cool, old comic, and there's not nearly as much at stake financially. However, I also really enjoy collecting "freakish" copies that have somehow survived 4 decades in near perfect condition, and so I plan to continue to purchase encapsulated books.

Good post, Bob. I agree with you, but for me to get back to anything approaching my old buying habits, CGC are going to have to make some changes in their operating procedures.

[sterlingcomics]

Super Post, Dan!

 

 

Here! Here! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's giving me a chance to reflect on what's really important to me...getting all wrapped up in the HG game is getting too much...

[shrunkenhead]

Super Post, Dan!

 

 

Here! Here! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's giving me a chance to reflect on what's really important to me...getting all wrapped up in the HG game is getting too much...

 

Sterling, not you too! Say it isn't so!

 

The world really is coming to an end..

[Foolkiller]

I think some people have misunderstood my actions and my post. I didn't crack the slabs for any other reason than to not rely on slabs anymore as part of anything I consider to be a "collection". It isn't about my confidence in those books I own... I'm reasonably certain they haven't been tampered with. What this is about is the emphasis people place on buying the slab v. buying it raw. I'm frustrated because I believe that I bought the slabs with a certain mindset that I had confidence in the product. The shedding of the product is simply symbolic of the fact that I'm not as confident anymore. I can go back to relying on my own eye. It's just as good.

 

In terms of the sale, I kept slabbed the books I intend to sell, and have already dumped about half privately. The rest I cracked because I have no intention of selling.

 

The only end I wanted to achieve was to restructure my collection and begin by purging it of all slabs, and shift my attention away from anything remotely related to the high grade or graded market for the forseeable future.

[october]

Super Post, Dan!

 

 

Here! Here! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's giving me a chance to reflect on what's really important to me...getting all wrapped up in the HG game is getting too much...

 

Wow! Next I will hear sfilosa proclaiming the merits of midgrade silver! The times the are a-changin'

[sterlingcomics]

Super Post, Dan!

 

 

Here! Here! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's giving me a chance to reflect on what's really important to me...getting all wrapped up in the HG game is getting too much...

 

Sterling, not you too! Say it isn't so!

 

The world really is coming to an end..

 

Well, take my situation. I'm chasing around the last 20 copies I need for HOM, and it is just plain nuts. The price being paid, competition, etc. I think I created a monster when I created the IBHT, because it's only made it worse for me

 

If you've noticed I'm in the process of liquidating all of my raw books. I've put feelers out for an all out buy on my CGC books. We'll see. I think I need a sharp refocus on the hobby and priorities. I still love this hobby and want to stay in it.

[tth2]

The only end I wanted to achieve was to restructure my collection and begin by purging it of all slabs, and shift my attention away from anything remotely related to the high grade or graded market for the forseeable future.

If you could persuade the HG pre-1964 SA DC collectors of the world to do the same thing, I'd be much obliged.

[sterlingcomics]

Super Post, Dan!

 

 

Here! Here! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's giving me a chance to reflect on what's really important to me...getting all wrapped up in the HG game is getting too much...

 

Wow! Next I will hear sfilosa proclaiming the merits of midgrade silver! The times the are a-changin'

 

I'd rather buy a NM book from you than battle it out with other tards (I include myself) for spending 15x on a HG CGC slab. I still believe in the CGC effort but rather I'm questioning the overpricing of high grade books in the marketplace.

[Foolkiller]

 

The only end I wanted to achieve was to restructure my collection and begin by purging it of all slabs, and shift my attention away from anything remotely related to the high grade or graded market for the forseeable future.

If you could persuade the HG pre-1964 SA DC collectors of the world to do the same thing, I'd be much obliged.

[nearmint]

Congrats, Foolkiller. It never hurts to add more fun.

[october]

Super Post, Dan!

 

 

Here! Here! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's giving me a chance to reflect on what's really important to me...getting all wrapped up in the HG game is getting too much...

 

Wow! Next I will hear sfilosa proclaiming the merits of midgrade silver! The times the are a-changin'

 

I'd rather buy a NM book from you than battle it out with other tards (I include myself) for spending 15x on a HG CGC slab. I still believe in the CGC effort but rather I'm questioning the overpricing of high grade books in the marketplace.

 

I think the ones I sold you were priced reasonably. Not much over 9.2 guide at least. I wonder what they would each bring in a 9.4/9.6/9.8 slab? I don't claim to know everything about grading super HG books, but if that Ghosts 112 doesn't get a 9.6 I would be floored.

[shadroch]

I'm sorry,I just don't get this.

It's been a long time since most of us thought

CGC was perfect. Everyone has known they make mistakes.As does everyone else in the hobby and the world.

Buying a CGC book gives the buyer a resonable idea what the grade is and if it has been restored.Has this changed?There will always be scammers that will try to beat any authority and sometimes they will succeed.

Does anyone here really believe that any dealer spends as much time grading and inspecting every single book that goes thru their inventory as the CGC team spends?

We've had board members come on and post books they bought from highly thought of dealers that turned out to be restored,or tampered with.

If not for CGC there would be an awful lot more,don't you think?

I've always thought that paying multiples of guide for a book thats .2 better than another is insane,and with very few exceptions haven't played that game.But give me a choice between a raw SA Avengers and a CGC one in the same price range and guess which way I'll go?

Am I disappointed in some,of CGC's recent moves-hell yes. This whole thing with Freisan and his select clients bugs me no end,and I didn't renew my several memberships in the Collectors Society as my personal way of protesting.But in order to get top dollar for books I sell,there really is no altenative. Yet.

[shrunkenhead]

Well, some of you are getting back in touch with the hobby via cracking out, I'm going to go reread my favorite full run of the past 20 years: The Invisibles.

 

Off I go!

[Foolkiller]

Bill,

 

again, as I mentioned to get top dollar for books, I agree, selling in the slab makes sense still for the seller in today's market.

 

but, as my last post for the night, let me be clear. This is a move I've made for myself.

 

there's a lot more going on here beyond just CGC's imperfection, but also my growing dissatisfaction with the entire state of the hobby. It seems like the list of dishonest dealers is growing, not shrinking. It seems there's more market manipulation, not less. It seems there's more examples of fraud, not fewer.

 

I used to rely on my own eye for the bulk of my purchases. I'm going back to it. I've just lost a lot of confidence.

[shadroch]

BK,

 

As someone who has been around the hobby a long ,long time let me assure you that there are less dishonest dealers than there used to be. Less market manipulation,as well. Perhaps you are seeing more,because you are gaining in experiance and have lost the rose colored glasses too many people wear.

[sterlingcomics]

if that Ghosts 112 doesn't get a 9.6 I would be floored.