The Official September Heritage Auction Thread 2 2

[grapeape]

If video killed the radio star, surely it was  Apple that killed the need for a watch or a Walkman.

I was in a comic store recently and a young guy walked in with a couple of low grade ASM comics. The shop owner offered the kid barely enough to buy a decent lunch.

”Do you know how rare and hard to find these Spider-Man comics are?” the kid (24-25 maybe) argued.

Our perception of what is rare or valued by others is almost always based on our own biases. Reality has very little to do with it.

I thought “good for you” and before I could blink the shop owner flipped his laptop around to show nearly one hundred listings for the same books.

It was quick but seemed to take place in slo-mo like watching Neo dodge those bullets in that “little cult movie” that came out 20+ years ago.

Yes I have a friend that liked to spend rich people’s money.

“Can you believe Michael Jackson spent $2,000,000 dollars on a monkey that can sing and dance while making pancakes?”
 

“Think of the Kirby pages I could have bought with that money.”

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by grapeape

[vodou]

2 hours ago, grapeape said:

“Think of the Kirby pages I could have bought with that money.”

The real question is: how much would it take to corner the majority of the vintage (pre-Image?) market?

I write majority because there are some people that just would not sell for any money, or would hold just one or two back, and sell "the majority" only.

But again, where majority is say 85%...how much? The answer would be different than what is the aggregate FMV of "the vintage market" as that number sort of assumes that all are not hitting the market at the same time, in competition with each other but rather being priced singly, where each achieves close to perfect price and those numbers are just added up.

Don't think this could happen, so why bother? Well it's been happening in vintage gaming art for quite some time already. One guy. Right?

[Bronty]

ah you mean the TSR buyer.    Yeah.  

[grapeape]

2 hours ago, vodou said:

The real question is: how much would it take to corner the majority of the vintage (pre-Image?) market?

I write majority because there are some people that just would not sell for any money, or would hold just one or two back, and sell "the majority" only.

But again, where majority is say 85%...how much? The answer would be different than what is the aggregate FMV of "the vintage market" as that number sort of assumes that all are not hitting the market at the same time, in competition with each other but rather being priced singly, where each achieves close to perfect price and those numbers are just added up.

Don't think this could happen, so why bother? Well it's been happening in vintage gaming art for quite some time already. One guy. Right?

Lol true...and on Kirby my friends comments came before Tony Christopher released all those pages.

Vodou I’m with you. Knowledge isn’t enough. It takes money. Knowledge. Then you have to convince the seller to let them go. Today the very best work is in black hole zip codes. The rest is scattered around the globe. Occasionally you’ll find a stack of desired art but it’s sitting in a pile of dust with a INQUIRE sign on them. 

The Christopher Collection came loose late nineties.They were broken up to multiple dealers then I imagine cherry picked for personal collections before individual pieces were priced and offered to collectors. Even when a significant lot of pages come up it’s difficult for one collector to put their mind to cornering them. Even if they have the money other impediments can disrupt that pursuit.

Ex.)Willingness of a seller to let everything go for a agreed upon price.

I had a chance to buy 12 John Buscema Silver Surfer pages for $400-$500 a piece from one seller. I bought one page. This was 1998. I love JB surfer more then anything but I had other wants and I would have had to get a loan to buy all the JBS pages. 
I saw one of those pages I didn’t buy sell for $25K a few years ago. 
 

Even if I put the word out today that I’m buying up all McFarlane Spidey’s, the second owners heard I bought a couple a pages for $100K the new price becomes $200K and onward upwards. How far to I want to go? How much do I want to get fleeced for?

Say money is no object. If I somehow buy them all (McSpideyI create a market at this point where no one else can afford to buy a page back from me. Most smart people with money always leave themselves a few outs. Not likely to corner any market that’s already been discovered.

It’s smart to listen to other hobby trends that produce monetary value.

MTG Black Lotus Card

Pokemon

Sports cards

whatever

Corner the market before discovery by the public on anything and you can rule the world. I’ve decided I’m going after all the post Byrne X Men pages through Cockrum’s  second run. If I move fast, I can corner the market!! 😂

[vodou]

6 minutes ago, grapeape said:

...X Men pages through Cockrum’s  second run

20 years too late my friend

But you can have all the Brent Anderson XM143 XM144 you want!

Edited September 20, 2020 by vodou
oopsie - X-Men issue-by-issue memory #fail

[grapeape]

4 minutes ago, vodou said:

20 years too late my friend

But you can have all the Brent Anderson XM143 XM144 you want!

Hahaha I like Brent Anderson, but I was thinking the second tier guys like Cockrrum, Smith and Silvestri.😂

[vodou]

15 minutes ago, grapeape said:

Corner the market before discovery by the public on anything and you can rule the world.😂

We're having fun here, but...it's true. Even in comic art in 2020. I just sent out very low four figures for a complete 20 page story direct from the writer artist. It's very good. It's also NFS for sure for a very long time (coupla decades?) But when it's not, it's also guaranteed "add two zeroes" to my basis, and that won't be gouging. What does not work is opening up the latest Heritage catalog and bidding your entire bank on the piece with the biggest picture in the book or the cover

That is behavior.

[grapeape]

7 minutes ago, vodou said:

We're having fun here, but...it's true. Even in comic art in 2020. I just sent out very low four figures for a complete 20 page story direct from the writer artist. It's very good. It's also NFS for sure for a very long time (coupla decades?) But when it's not, it's also guaranteed "add two zeroes" to my basis, and that won't be gouging. What does not work is opening up the latest Heritage catalog and bidding your entire bank on the piece with the biggest picture in the book or the cover

That is behavior.

Haha yes those sheep look fat and happy but they are headed off a long drop mountainside of manipulated (allegedly) bidding and the intoxicating whiff of buyers premium BP farts. Turn back gentle collector. Think for yourself!!
 

I’m buying a few pages back I let go in 2009 for three figures and paying up four figures to get them back. But that’s fair and I deserve paying that penalty. But I’m not buying a 5 figure page that was previously owned or available for 3 figures. Stay away from the shiny objects unless you have F U and F Me money. 

 

[tth2]

8 hours ago, grapeape said:

If video killed the radio star, surely it was  Apple that killed the need for a watch

Nah, I had already stopped wearing a watch after old fashioned non-smart mobile phones came out.

[BuraddoRun]

12 hours ago, ShallowDan said:

So much truth packed into this post.  I saw this play out during July's Heritage auction, when I was drinking with a friend and bidding on one of the Herriman Krazy Kat strips that were up for grabs.  As I was showing him some past auction results to give him an idea of where I thought it would end up, my buddy who is a watch collector, was dumbfounded that anyone would bid that much on what is just a piece of paper with some drawings on it, when you can get xxxx (insert whatever watch he was talking about) for the same amount of money...

 15-20 minutes later, I casually ask him what time is it.  He reaches for his phone to check and I follow up with "why would you spend that much money on a watch you don't even use, when the same amount of money would buy a one-of-kind Herriman original Sunday strip that's almost a hundred years old...". 

I think it's funny how so many collectors purchase things that have functionality, but don't actually use the item. I understand collecting, of course, and I understand wear devalues things, but it's still weird, right, to own something meant for use and not actually use it? Collectors are weird. We're weird! LOL. This hobby is easy, though, because what we buy is meant for display, so taking care of it is inherent in its use. We want it to stay looking nice, after all. But for a lot of the junk I buy nowadays for entertainment, if I don't plan to resell anytime soon, I just use. It's mostly knickknacks, though: keychains, pins, coasters...just "collector" throw-ins with movies or video games. If i get a cool shirt that fits, I'll wear it. I don't have to preserve everything!

[Rick2you2]

Just a general question. At the recent weekly HA auction, a page from Omaha, the Cat Dancer, went for a little under $1,000. Admittedly, one of the dirtier pieces of comic art you will see, but the book was significant and the page was pretty nice for what it was. But for a current spending limit of mine lately, I would have gone for it. My better half is a cat lover, and she liked it, but even she wasn’t sure where it could be properly hung for people to see.

What is the market like for Omaha pages? Did that price seem a little low? Gene, you know all this stuff; your thoughts?

[exitmusicblue]

6 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

Just a general question. At the recent weekly HA auction, a page from Omaha, the Cat Dancer, went for a little under $1,000. Admittedly, one of the dirtier pieces of comic art you will see, but the book was significant and the page was pretty nice for what it was. But for a current spending limit of mine lately, I would have gone for it. My better half is a cat lover, and she liked it, but even she wasn’t sure where it could be properly hung for people to see.

What is the market like for Omaha pages? Did that price seem a little low? Gene, you know all this stuff; your thoughts?

Paging @delekkerste

[grapeape]

10 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

Paging @delekkerste

Sending up the Gene Signal. I only pray he sees this.....in time?”

[grapeape]

23 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

 

What is the market like for Omaha pages? Did that price seem a little low? Gene, you know all this stuff; your thoughts?

[delekkerste]

21 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

Just a general question. At the recent weekly HA auction, a page from Omaha, the Cat Dancer, went for a little under $1,000. Admittedly, one of the dirtier pieces of comic art you will see, but the book was significant and the page was pretty nice for what it was. But for a current spending limit of mine lately, I would have gone for it. My better half is a cat lover, and she liked it, but even she wasn’t sure where it could be properly hung for people to see.

What is the market like for Omaha pages? Did that price seem a little low? Gene, you know all this stuff; your thoughts?

No clue...outside of my wheelhouse, unfortunately.

Also, I am like 70% into sports cards, 20% into Dungeons & Dragons memorabilia and only 10% into OA these days, so, I haven't been following things as closely as before...certainly not to the level where I would know where Omaha pages are selling.    

[exitmusicblue]

48 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

No clue...outside of my wheelhouse, unfortunately.

Also, I am like 70% into sports cards, 20% into Dungeons & Dragons memorabilia and only 10% into OA these days, so, I haven't been following things as closely as before...certainly not to the level where I would know where Omaha pages are selling.    

Ooo... what kinds of D&D memorabilia?

Did sports cards from 2014-17 or so.  Vintage was steady but kinda boring, Modern could be gut-churning, as timing is everything.  It's a hobby where one can legit feel sorry for those one deals with, means you've done well, which never has been the case for me in OA.  "You sure you want that Matt Harvey auto for that much?  Yes, take it, take it now!" (Harvey implodes within months, card becomes worthless) "Really trading me an early BC Trout super for a Correa auto and some spare change?  If you insist..." (later sells Trout for 8x)  etc. etc.  Took up too much headspace, glad to have sailed away in the black.  Just as well could've been otherwise.

One bad injury, and millions in Modern value can vanish overnight.  As we card collectors turned comics collectors used to say, Spidey might get his arse kicked over and over, killed, eaten, whatever, but he'll be back web-slinging none the worse for wear.

Edited September 22, 2020 by exitmusicblue

[vodou]

52 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

What is the market like for Omaha pages? Did that price seem a little low?

Faded. Big time. That kept me from going $1,500. Or even $500.

[zhamlau]

27 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

No clue...outside of my wheelhouse, unfortunately.

Also, I am like 70% into sports cards, 20% into Dungeons & Dragons memorabilia and only 10% into OA these days, so, I haven't been following things as closely as before...certainly not to the level where I would know where Omaha pages are selling.    

I have been doing a lot with cards for years, but I’m starting to get nervous especially with basketball and baseball modern. These box prices on 4 year old or less material is not sustainable.

[exitmusicblue]

Fortunately there isn't an over-supply bubble for true Modern bluechip/flagship RCs, but I can see one big (or a number of smaller) black swan sports events knocking down prices every whichway like a house of... cards.

Unlucky Trout injuries that sap his abilities/stats going forward and shorten his career -- imagine being an owner of his BC autos in that hot potato game.  I can't imagine the record-making Action 1 selling for less in the foreseeable future, but danger aplenty that the Trout super auto will sell for less while he's yet to amass more MVPs or get his first ring.  

_______

That said, back to our hobby... anyone have thoughts on the Katradis Overstreet piece re: a glut of choice vintage OA (stolen and/or long-stored) just waiting to flood the market?  Part of me would almost welcome this, tbh, if it'd ease off over-steamed prices and lower entry barriers.

Edited September 22, 2020 by exitmusicblue

[vodou]

7 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

thoughts on the Katradis Overstreet piece

I'm not seeing a link there...?

Edited September 22, 2020 by vodou
oopsie - missed a word!