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Golden Age Comics Cover Color Diversity?
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27 posts in this topic

Hi Everyone, I'll start from the beginning. My CGC collection ranges from the time period from Fantastic Four #1 until Giant Size X-Men 1. I've always loved Golden Age books especially the artwork and the beautiful cover colors. So many are just absoloutely beautiful.

Most of them I've actually seen in person have been at shows which I enjoy drooling to. Ok, so I bought my 1st graded GA book and just recieved it. I am kind of disappointed on the cover color. It appears very dark and dull. Not "Eye Popping" at all. It is a very clean book however.

Its an Action Comics 34. I have seen many photos of this book from past sales and in most the colors look very bright and vivid. Yet in person mine looks very blah colorwise. It looks duller and darker in person than in these pictures.

So I suppose my questions for the experts are is there much variation in colors in GA books within the same issue numbers? Were some printed bright and bold while others came out dark and dull within the same issue number ? Do some just get dull with age while others stay vivid maybe? Any ideas or comments? Of course one reason I'm wondering is beause I'd like to find another copy of this issue but if they are all like this I think I'll go with a different issue. Ok thanks all.

s-l1600 (1).jpg

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Edited by Professor Chaos
stupid joke removed
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Yeah, the colors on comics changed even in the print runs. The books printed first usually had the best and freshest inks. While books toward the end of the run often saw one or more colors being depleated during the print run. They were 10 cent comics. Disposable and insignificant. Charlton and Superior had some of the worst production and quality control. Fiction House is known for poor color quality. I have had to upgrade many of mine due to washed out inks. I have actually downgraded a technical grade to get one with better color. I'm sure some folks here can show some examples.

Here is an EC where the magenta plate "gained" on press. (second book) If they noticed, it was often to late to fix it as they presses they were printed on ran so fast.

Oh, and welcome to the frustrating and wonderful world of Golden Age!

comweirdfantasy15(#3)b.jpg

comweirdfantasy15(#3)a.jpg

Edited by Robot Man
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18 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

Hi Everyone, I'll start from the beginning. My CGC collection ranges from the time period from Fantastic Four #1 until Giant Size X-Men 1. I've always loved Golden Age books especially the artwork and the beautiful cover colors. So many are just absoloutely beautiful.

Most of them I've actually seen in person have been at shows which I enjoy drooling to. Ok, so I bought my 1st graded GA book and just recieved it. I am kind of disappointed on the cover color. It appears very dark and dull. Not "Eye Popping" at all. It is a very clean book however.

Its an Action Comics 34. I have seen many photos of this book from past sales and in most the colors look very bright and vivid. Yet in person mine looks very blah colorwise. It looks duller and darker in person than in these pictures.

So I suppose my questions for the experts are is there much variation in colors in GA books within the same issue numbers? Were some printed bright and bold while others came out dark and dull within the same issue number ? Do some just get dull with age while others stay vivid maybe? Any ideas or comments? Of course one reason I'm wondering is beause I'd like to find another copy of this issue but if they are all like this I think I'll go with a different issue. Ok thanks all.

s-l1600 (1).jpg

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hm

 

99F90F40-61F9-4B6B-8E92-822D73159B64.jpeg.8111ada12ba14a2ed6b2bdd97769f615.jpeg

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18 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

So I suppose my questions for the experts are is there much variation in colors in GA books within the same issue numbers?

Yes. Ink levels (of each color) will fluctuate throughout any print run that's large enough, which means that you'll notice it on nearly any comic book ever made if you look at enough copies.

18 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

Were some printed bright and bold while others came out dark and dull within the same issue number ?

Not really. See above.

18 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

Do some just get dull with age while others stay vivid maybe?

Absolutely. You're talking about a book that's almost 80 years old. How it's been taken care of (or not) during those many years will have a significant impact on its appearance.

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17 hours ago, Robot Man said:

Here is an EC where the magenta plate "gained" on press. (second book) If they noticed, it was often to late to fix it as they presses they were printed on ran so fast.

The second copy has weak cyan. Again, each color will fluctuate throughout the run as the operator adjusts the ink levels.

18 hours ago, Robot Man said:

While books toward the end of the run often saw one or more colors being depleated during the print run.

The ink doesn't just run out over the course of the print run.

 

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56 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

The second copy has weak cyan. Again, each color will fluctuate throughout the run as the operator adjusts the ink levels.

The ink doesn't just run out over the course of the print run.

 

Magenta is a dominant color. Other than black probably the most dominant. On the second copy the cyan might have dropped a bit allowing the magenta to gain. Or the magenta gained on it’s own and thusly over powered the cyan. Most copies I’ve seen are like the top copy. 

On a printing press, each color has it’s own fountain. Magenta, Cyan, Yellow and Black. There can be 6, 8, or even 10 fountains. These extra fountains can be used for other colors or coatings  to enhance the process. 4 or 5 color presses were dominant on the large web presses that printed these. Presses these days are much more complex and developed but the process has otherwise changed very little. 

And yes, ink fountains need to be refilled as the ink is used up. Modern presses do it automatically while the old presses needed to be done manually. These were cheap, throw away magazines and often to save money ink was “watered down” if you will to save cost. 

I’ve worked in Graphic Design and printing for 35 years. And, I still learn “tricks” from skilled pressmen. 

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11 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

 

The ink doesn't just run out over the course of the print run.

 

It certainly can run out, as evidenced by one uniquely recognizable copy of the GA Captain America #1.  The cover’s color strike is completely missing red.  This book was loosely described in a ComicLink listing as a “variant” back when it was offered for auction.   As I recall, other colors were sharp with little or no fading.  But a fellow boardie made this observation (paraphrased): In the case of such an iconic, patriotically themed cover, missing one of the flag’s primary colors will look more like a flaw rather than a desirable anomaly.

Edited by Cat-Man_America
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Just now, Cat-Man_America said:

It certainly can run out, as evidenced by at a uniquely recognizable copy of the GA Captain America #1.  The cover’s color strike is completely missing red.  This book was loosely described in a ComicLink listing as a “variant” back when it was offered for auction.   As I recall, other colors were sharp with little or no fading.  But a fellow boardie made this observation: In the case of such an iconic, patriotically themed cover missing one of the flag’s primary colors will look more like a flaw rather than a desirable anomaly.

 It doesn't just run out. It's not just filled at the start and then left alone.

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18 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

Magenta is a dominant color. Other than black probably the most dominant. On the second copy the cyan might have dropped a bit allowing the magenta to gain. Or the magenta gained on it’s own and thusly over powered the cyan. Most copies I’ve seen are like the top copy. 

On a printing press, each color has it’s own fountain. Magenta, Cyan, Yellow and Black. There can be 6, 8, or even 10 fountains. These extra fountains can be used for other colors or coatings  to enhance the process. 4 or 5 color presses were dominant on the large web presses that printed these. Presses these days are much more complex and developed but the process has otherwise changed very little. 

And yes, ink fountains need to be refilled as the ink is used up. Modern presses do it automatically while the old presses needed to be done manually. These were cheap, throw away magazines and often to save money ink was “watered down” if you will to save cost. 

I’ve worked in Graphic Design and printing for 35 years. And, I still learn “tricks” from skilled pressmen. 

noitsacyanproblem.thumb.jpg.e20204546049e59f9e60d92a142b1f51.jpg

Wow, that is some really powerful magenta! :eyeroll:

The cyan is just weak on your second copy (the top one in my image), not simply being overpowered by the magenta (though the very weak cyan obviously is being overpowered in the places where they're combined).

I also have experience in printing and understand how it works, thanks. Even if I didn't, I would still realize that if you want to understand what's going on with the colors that you have to look at all the places each ink exists and interacts with the others.

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21 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

Hi Everyone, I'll start from the beginning. My CGC collection ranges from the time period from Fantastic Four #1 until Giant Size X-Men 1. I've always loved Golden Age books especially the artwork and the beautiful cover colors. So many are just absoloutely beautiful.

Most of them I've actually seen in person have been at shows which I enjoy drooling to. Ok, so I bought my 1st graded GA book and just recieved it. I am kind of disappointed on the cover color. It appears very dark and dull. Not "Eye Popping" at all. It is a very clean book however.

Its an Action Comics 34. I have seen many photos of this book from past sales and in most the colors look very bright and vivid. Yet in person mine looks very blah colorwise. It looks duller and darker in person than in these pictures.

So I suppose my questions for the experts are is there much variation in colors in GA books within the same issue numbers? Were some printed bright and bold while others came out dark and dull within the same issue number ? Do some just get dull with age while others stay vivid maybe? Any ideas or comments? Of course one reason I'm wondering is beause I'd like to find another copy of this issue but if they are all like this I think I'll go with a different issue. Ok thanks all.

s-l1600 (1).jpg

 

You have some tanning or something going on above the boulders which definitely mutes the colors... but your copy kind of looks like mine near the same grade.   With Golden Age I seem to find that the reds seem to pop especially on the Timely MMC and Caps. 

 

RADD388A2012125_132125.jpg

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Thanks Buzzetta for that info and showing me another example. Thanks to everyone. 

I wasnt expecting an 80 year old book to look like a 9.4  Bronze of course, I just thought the colors would be brighter. Truth is I had the same situation with the only other graded GA book I bought years back which I've since sold, a Detective 103. . I had forgetten about that one. The colors were really dark. I think GA books are best bought in person if possible, well thats a no brainer actually

I think another reason might be, and I oould very well be wrong, but just as interior pages darken over time perhaps the paper on the cover darkens as well and it can result on the darkening of colors. Here are a few quick pics of the book. With flash on it looks great. Flash off I guess not too bad. 

DSC09676.JPG

DSC09677.JPG

Edited by Professor Chaos
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Here is an example of how poor Friction Houses' production was. The book on the right was probably at the beginning of the run. The one on the left was probably later with a major lack of cyan on it. You can obviously see it in the background but also on the monster and the green areas. There is also a slight trace of cyan in the title which is also missing on the one on the left. It either got away from the pressman or they didn't want to add to the cyan fountain at the end of the run. It could also be a "make ready" where they were trying to balance the color at the beginning of the run and just decided to leave it in the run to "make count" but I doubt it.

Your Action looks very nice in my opinion. Nothing to be ashamed of. I'd be more than happy to have a copy like that!

 

complanet66pair.jpg

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On 7/28/2020 at 6:46 PM, Professor Chaos said:

So I suppose my questions for the experts are is there much variation in colors in GA books within the same issue numbers? Were some printed bright and bold while others came out dark and dull within the same issue number ? Do some just get dull with age while others stay vivid maybe? Any ideas or comments? Of course one reason I'm wondering is beause I'd like to find another copy of this issue but if they are all like this I think I'll go with a different issue. Ok thanks all.

As has been shown in the posts above, there are color variations across a print run, more so with some publishers than others.  There are also variations due to aging, where the exposure to light, heat and oxygen will fade the colors, dull the gloss and yellow the paper stock.

DC employed quality printers in the 40s so their colors and pages hold up well if they haven't been abused.  Even so, you will only know how much of their original shine they retain if you can compare to the best.  For this time period that would be a Church or Frisco copy.  I'm sure either would satisfy you desire for rich colors but would probably cost a bit more.

It so happens that a Boardie posted the Church copy of this issue and I saved off the scan. 

Action34MileHigh.jpg

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1 hour ago, adamstrange said:

As has been shown in the posts above, there are color variations across a print run, more so with some publishers than others.  There are also variations due to aging, where the exposure to light, heat and oxygen will fade the colors, dull the gloss and yellow the paper stock.

DC employed quality printers in the 40s so their colors and pages hold up well if they haven't been abused.  Even so, you will only know how much of their original shine they retain if you can compare to the best.  For this time period that would be a Church or Frisco copy.  I'm sure either would satisfy you desire for rich colors but would probably cost a bit more.

It so happens that a Boardie posted the Church copy of this issue and I saved off the scan. 

Action34MileHigh.jpg

I bought the Action Comics #34 Mile High from Gary Carter back in 1991. The colors were super sharp and perfect!

Edited by Timely
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Back in the very early Nineties a sweet collection Of Action and Superman books out of Palo Alto was on hand at San Diego comic con. I was just getting into Golden Age collecting and was sweating over picking out one of these nice books. The Action 34 called out to me because of it’s beautiful yellow cover! I still have it and still love looking at it! It’s maintained a fresh appearance over a long life!

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Edited by 50YrsCollctngCmcs
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