• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

ComicLink Auction starts with a bang August 13
0

187 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, sfilosa said:

I think this is the one thing that is hard for the older generation (that would be me) to understand, but is absolutely true. 

Age of the piece (especially a quality piece) doesn't really matter. For me, great Neal Adams, Bernie Wrightson, Jim Steranko, etc. pages will forever be the cream of the crop in terms of artist (assuming the art is in a top notch character book). But that doesn't translate to the next generation, and next, etc.

Think of this way. Assume in my example that the number of collectors with "large funds" able to purchase top quality art is the first number:

200 -  (art from 70's and before)

50 - (art from 80's-90's)

10 - (art from 2000's on)

Clearly there are more "buyers" for the older art. But in terms of the best of the best pieces, even with only 10 people with a large bankroll, it will only take two to drive the price up to what appears to be sky high prices. The fact that in my example there are 20 times more well funded 70's and early collectors, doesn't necessarily translate to higher sales. First, there is more "perceived" quality art work from that time frame. Tons of Kirby, lots of Ditko/Romita/Andru Spidey pages, lots of Colan work,  a decent amount of Adams, Wrightson, Brunner, etc. Almost any cover from a key Marvel book is considered a classic. So more art to get absorbed by more collectors.

But more than anything, just because there might be more people that "demand" the art doesn't always mean the price ends up higher. Once again, in an auction, it only really matters that there are two "go for broke" bidders. And for each "time frame" of art, it appears that is the case.

 

McSpidey pages were selling at $700 in 1990 at the Sahara Hotel Comic Convention in Las Vegas. With eBay ten years later pages started to go around 2K. That was silver age money on some Kirby, or top Buscema, Colan pieces etc.

Love or hate McFarlane the biggest problem with determining FMV was comparing perceived apples to oranges. How can art barely north of ten years in creation sell for more then the masters?

 We take it for granted today that McFarlane belongs with the big boys. Twenty-thirty years ago that notion was very much up for debate.

I’ve come full circle. Great art is great art. There is a market that will have its say in terms of dollars. The individual collector will have to be more forwarded thinking in what they pursue. The time for having our hands held are long gone.  
 

My gut tells me someone made a great purchase at $55K + yesterday. That collector is unchained from bias that makes many of us say, “that page isn’t old enough, the artist not great enough, the subject matter not important (nostalgic) enough to command that type of money.”

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, grapeape said:

McSpidey pages were selling at $700 in 1990 at the Sahara Hotel Comic Convention in Las Vegas. With eBay ten years later pages started to go around 2K. That was silver age money on some Kirby, or top Buscema, Colan pieces etc.

Love or hate McFarlane the biggest problem with determining FMV was comparing perceived apples to oranges. How can art barely north of ten years in creation sell for more then the masters?

 We take it for granted today that McFarlane belongs with the big boys. Twenty-thirty years ago that notion was very much up for debate.

I’ve come full circle. Great art is great art. There is a market that will have its say in terms of dollars. The individual collector will have to be more forwarded thinking in what they pursue. The time for having our hands held are long gone.  
 

My gut tells me someone made a great purchase at $55K + yesterday. That collector is unchained from bias that makes many of us say, “that page isn’t old enough, the artist not great enough, the subject matter not important (nostalgic) enough to command that type of money.”

 

The challenge on that would be that it is a "panel page" not a full splash or cover. I also still think there are "fewer" buyers but that doesn't mean it would always sell for less. But if you look at most of the dealers who have been around a long time, and buy a decent amount of the really high-end stuff, either for their collection or to eventually resell, not quite sure they put these in the "collection first" pile. A great Ditko or Romita, yes, but probably not McFarlane. Could be wrong on that and of course over the next decade a newer bread of big time dealers really will have grown up with McFarlane over Ditko/Romita.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, sfilosa said:

The challenge on that would be that it is a "panel page" not a full splash or cover. I also still think there are "fewer" buyers but that doesn't mean it would always sell for less. But if you look at most of the dealers who have been around a long time, and buy a decent amount of the really high-end stuff, either for their collection or to eventually resell, not quite sure they put these in the "collection first" pile. A great Ditko or Romita, yes, but probably not McFarlane. Could be wrong on that and of course over the next decade a newer bread of big time dealers really will have grown up with McFarlane over Ditko/Romita.

 

It might be a mistake to try and think in terms of how dealers rank artists like McFarlane. Also I’m not so sure that the “two crazy bidders on any given day“ algorithm always fits the bill.

 My understanding is that McFarlane ASM is coveted as much or more by collectors outside the USA. Though it seems intuitive that a Ditko ASM is more desirable there are no set in stones. The original comic are market is patently illogical in terms of that kind of thinking.

I was 21 when Spider-Man 1 hit the stands. I hated it. Too easy. Big splashy show off art. Border busting bleeding panels which I judged as weakness.

To this day what Ditko does in 6-9 panels thrills me more then what Todd does on this ASM 317 page. Still I am very aware that at 52 Im seeing Todd much differently then I did back then at 21. I wish I had a nice example like this in my collection. 
 

In 2000 when I could have obtained one I wasn’t sure how I felt. For this auction I challenged myself to forget my biases and go for this page. In order to do that I had to come up with a number that would get the job done.  Not what made sense. But what bid could win?

I came up with $47,000.

Then I said does it make sense to me financially? The answer was no. Because now that I have arrived at a new FMV for a desirable ASM McSpidey   you can be sure I am going to take my time finding the right one. Auctions can pull you out to deep waters beyond your swimming ability. Grape ape does better on land.

Also I still don’t have my Romita ASM page yet. Either way if the winner is among us enjoy your five minutes of privacy then do the right thing.

Brag....

Right here on CGC....

Thwipp 🕷

What if GrapeApe had been bitten by a radioactive spider?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't say two crazy bidders (might have thought that but didn't say it).

That said, what we don't know is if there are a lot of collectors willing to pay anywhere close to that amount, or just two. And what happens (once again, all hypothetical) if the two high bidders own a lot of his art. And one decides he doesn't want to collect anymore, or dies or ends up finding something else more interesting to spend their money on. This happens all the time where a few "collectors" try to corner a market. That doesn't mean that there won't be a lot of demand for his art, but maybe not anywhere near that price.

Like has been said on these boards multiple time, there is certain art that most of us feel has very little chance of decreasing dramatically overall.  You know the downside at certain prices is limited, simply because a dealer or multiple dealers would jump at a chance to buy the piece at even a slight discount. Forget the collector. Not sure that would translate to this piece especially at that price.

I have been wrong before.:tonofbricks: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, sfilosa said:

I didn't say two crazy bidders (might have thought that but didn't say it).

That said, what we don't know is if there are a lot of collectors willing to pay anywhere close to that amount, or just two. And what happens (once again, all hypothetical) if the two high bidders own a lot of his art. And one decides he doesn't want to collect anymore, or dies or ends up finding something else more interesting to spend their money on. This happens all the time where a few "collectors" try to corner a market. That doesn't mean that there won't be a lot of demand for his art, but maybe not anywhere near that price.

Like has been said on these boards multiple time, there is certain art that most of us feel has very little chance of decreasing dramatically overall.  You know the downside at certain prices is limited, simply because a dealer or multiple dealers would jump at a chance to buy the piece at even a slight discount. Forget the collector. Not sure that would translate to this piece especially at that price.

I have been wrong before.:tonofbricks: 

This is an area in which internet auctions are more opaque than live auctions, because you can't look around the room to see how many distinct bidders are driving the price.  I would love for Heritage (ComicLink, etc.) to assign anonymous numbers to bidders so that we can get some sense of the market. Heritage certainly knows this sort of thing internally, and perhaps it's somehow in their best interest to keep that data from us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Real Elijah Snow said:

I was close on that Jim Lee X-men pg, and 2nd bidder on several other pages, but I did walk away with this cover for what I thought was a good price. 

campbellcvr.jpg

I like this one very much! Congratulations 🎈 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, grapeape said:

I like this one very much! Congratulations 🎈 

Thanks! I was a little shocked when I won it. I figured it would go for 30-50% more than it hammered. I also loved Gen 13 and Danger Girl, so this checked a couple of boxes for me. 

Thinking I might get a print made (or buy one if he already made them) and frame together. The colors on the book cover pop. 

s-l1600 (9).jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, BuraddoRun said:

Saltares did it first.

But honestly, it's kind of an unremarkable pose. Same character, same costume, common action. It's not something I would think was blatantly copied. I don't think the similarities were premeditated between the 2 artists.

*Edit: Now that I look at them, maybe Blevins was referencing Saltares' cover after all? I don't know. I'm not familiar enough with Ghost Rider to know if the stories from issues 10 & 37 were linked in some way.

Edited by BuraddoRun
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, sfilosa said:

The one thing this shows is that if have anything decent that you really want to sell, it makes sense to put in an auction. I sold five or six pieces at Comic Art Live but I have a feeling I left 20-30% at least on the table (and that would be after the 10% commission). Plus I had the hassle of shipping 5 or 6 pieces to various collectors instead of one shipment to CL.

Unless someone wants a NSF piece at way above what I think is market (which I just did), I'm putting in an auction. As long as you don't need the money immediately, seems like almost anything of interest sells pretty well.

 

Sorry to hear that - I sold some pages at Comic Art Live - I'm sure I could get a bit more but the action houses do take a bite - there is tax element as well.  I do like the 2 pages I picked up from you - thanks!

Edited by mtlevy1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, mtlevy1 said:

Sorry to hear that - I sold some pages at Comic Art Live - I'm sure I could get a bit more but the action houses do take a bite - there is tax element as well.  I do like the 2 pages I picked up from you - thanks!

You got the best deal for sure. Very nice pages. I'm not upset at all that I sold them for what I did.

I will say stressing about shipping is just a pain. I don't think I have missed one bit of sleep because I thought I could have sold something for more, but I definitely lose thinking about how I'm going to ship, pack, when to go to the mailing place, etc. And my shipping costs are always a lot more than I expect.

Plus, at least if you sell in an auction where you feel they get full value (basically ComicLink or Heritage), the price it sells for is market. It is what it is. 

Different note - I thought the Barry Smith Conan page went for a pretty hefty amount as I had perceived some weakest (or lack or price increases) on some of his Conan work. $13.4k for a really good page, but a lot of panels and him just fighting a guard. Plus one of the panels was a cut-out and replaced (hate the CL doesn't mention that at all). Once again, strong auction all around.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, sfilosa said:

 

I will say stressing about shipping is just a pain. I don't think I have missed one bit of sleep because I thought I could have sold something for more, but I definitely lose thinking about how I'm going to ship, pack, when to go to the mailing place, etc. And my shipping costs are always a lot more than I expect.

 

Just wanted to say, you and me both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0