Book Damaged by CGC Case 2 2

[Hollywood1892]

7 minutes ago, thehumantorch said:

They did tell me to send it back and paid for the shipping.  And they did ask what they could do to make me happy so when push comes to shove they did offer to make it right.

It's really scary when you see stuff like that. I mean CGC needs to straighten that out, figure out a way to encapsulate the books better. I mean I've seen books be able to bounce back and forth inside the case, and you always wonder what damage can be caused

[thehumantorch]

Just now, Hollywood1892 said:

It's really scary when you see stuff like that. I mean CGC needs to straighten that out, figure out a way to encapsulate the books better. I mean I've seen books be able to bounce back and forth inside the case, and you always wonder what damage can be caused

I don't think it's possible to design any holder for a paper collectible like comics that's 100% safe

[Randall Ries]

11 minutes ago, thehumantorch said:

They did tell me to send it back and paid for the shipping.  And they did ask what they could do to make me happy so when push comes to shove they did offer to make it right.

Ah! Were you made happy with their terms or yours? I figured because you started this thread you were NOT happy.

[Hollywood1892]

2 minutes ago, thehumantorch said:

I don't think it's possible to design any holder for a paper collectible like comics that's 100% safe

Nope...I agree, but it's gut wrenching to see something like that...they should provide you with the same book at the grade it was graded at

[Paddy_McShillihan]

1 hour ago, Randall Ries said:

Bingo. THAT is the problem. The sheer arrogance. An apology to them means admission of guilt and responsibility for the damage. A GOOD COMPANY SUCKS IT UP AND MAKES IT RIGHT. AND THAT'S THE FIRST THING TO BE SAID: "WE ARE SO SORRY." THE NEXT SHOULD BE "HOW CAN WE MAKE YOU HAPPY?"

This is what liability insurance is for. But that is also why they chose to be an LLC. So they can't be held liable for damages. Before I sent a book to ANY grading company, these are the things I would be asking.

If things go south, what will you do to make it right?
What is your damage by the grading process policy?
Who is your insurance company?

If they aren't willing to own up to damaging my property, I wouldn't go through the process. If my vehicle gets damaged while at the shop, well that's what their insurance policy is for. Liability insurance. I am under THEIR coverage while my car is at the shop.

Any company that doesn't fix their eff ups is not a company to do business with. Now my book has a tear and you will comp me a grading for next time? Stuff it.

Even more fun if it's a high grade book ... hulk 181 or something .. books might be better off in a Mylar .. 

[Randall Ries]

9 hours ago, Paddy_McShillihan said:

Even more fun if it's a high grade book ... hulk 181 or something .. books might be better off in a Mylar .. 

Precisely. CBCS has a grading process for treasury sized editions. I have the Batman C-51 edition that reprints the Ra'a Al Ghul story line from Batmans 232, 242-244. They insert the book into a sturdy oversized, form fitting sleeve. They seal the sleeve with a grading sticker. Open the seal, void the grade. Pretty simple. That paradigm could be applied to any book.

I imagine any dimwit in the encapsulation dept could handle gently sliding a book into a sleeve and sealing it. Only thing they would have to use their brain for was ensuring the sticker was applied right side up. A Capuchin monkey could do it in between organ grinding gigs if a human couldn't handle it.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Randall Ries

[Randall Ries]

10 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

I don't think it's possible to design any holder for a paper collectible like comics that's 100% safe

Sure there is. The holder used for regular books is clunky and has too many parts to deal with. The average person in the encapsulation dept probably gets confused and bewildered, panics, then jams the book into a holder and calls it good. That needs to change.

A simple plastic sleeve with a thick backing board with a grading seal would take care of everything. Break the grading seal, void the grade. CBCS does it with oversized Treasury editions. Something I haven't seen from CGC yet. What difference does the size of the sleeve make?

Afterward, it's up to the owner as always to care for their book. Maybe the owner will learn how to be more careful as well.

I assume you took CGC's beat down as you never responded to my question regarding their offer to "make you happy": "Were you made happy with their terms or yours?"

[THE_BEYONDER]

Or.....

 

They could stop encapsulating comics until they figure out how to do so.

[Randall Ries]

3 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Or.....

 

They could stop encapsulating comics until they figure out how to do so.

Haha. Yes. Or maybe the better word is "Should". The encapsulation process seems like overkill. The overkill is there to theoretically add more layers of safety for our books. It seems like the cure is becoming worse than the disease. I want my book to be secure and safe from mailings or even handling it myself, but now I fear the encapsulation process. Since humans won't change and are in fact becoming mere simpletons and more apathetic, then the encapsulating process needs to be dumbed down now as well.

[Randall Ries]

Here we have a copy of "Shazam!" with Jackson Bostwick mincing away as "Captain Marvel". These Treasury editions are difficult in high grade because they are so floppy. CBCS has simply...er...simplified the encapsulation process. I don't mean to hurt anyone's ego or loyalties, but this is a good example and remarkably effective. We see the grading sticker on the front. And the two seals on the back. Pop those two seals and valid grade no. Think of the material costs they save as well.

If CGC were to adopt that paradigm across the boards first, they could take credit for my idea and not pay me a cent for it. Let's face it: We send our books in to be cared for. Not treated like a mailer jamming into an envelope. If a grader couldn't handle sliding a book into a sleeve and applying three stickers, they may want to consider applying for disability. In fact, the entire grading strip we see in regularly graded books could BE the sticker. Seal the book from the back along the bottom and presto-chango it's done.

Credit to Greg Reece and fam for the images.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Randall Ries

[thehumantorch]

 

7 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

 

18 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Ah! Were you made happy with their terms or yours? I figured because you started this thread you were NOT happy.

 

When I return a damaged book that is the moment to determine the cause and contact me, and if the damage was caused by them an apology and a discussion about compensation should be a priority.  That didn't happen.  Trying to argue my case after it has been repressed and regraded is difficult.  It was only when I told the CGC rep to look at my pictures and tell me their case didn't damage my book that they asked what would make me happy.  Unfortunately, since I put great stock in apologies and none was offered there was nothing they could offer me at that point to make me happy.

Edited April 16, 2021 by thehumantorch

[thehumantorch]

7 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

I assume you took CGC's beat down as you never responded to my question regarding their offer to "make you happy": "Were you made happy with their terms or yours?"

Please don't characterize this as CGC beating me down.  That's not what I said and I don't consider that an accurate representation of what happened.  I didn't respond to your question because I went to bed.

[High Koality Comics]

I'm dealing with something now that's similar to this. 2 out of my last 4 subs that I have received have irreversible damage along the bottom of the comics where it looks like the books tried to escape the inner well and got hung up on the edge causing the cover and inside pages to be damaged. 5 comics in this sub of 25 have it. 8 in a previous sub of 25 earlier this year had it. CGC was unable to fix 4 of the first 8 damaged when I shipped them back which really sucks.

I'm fairly certain this is happening because I live on the West Coast and the boxes are being handled roughly or dropped during the long travel time. The first sub with damaged books I had received had multiple books that had slid out of the inner well and were resting on the very bottom of the CGC case. It's obviously disappointing for several reasons but CGC also only reimburses for the initial amount declared on the submission form. One of these damaged books would have been the only one on the census in 9.8 but of course that's not the case any more and was a total loss since the reimbursement didn't cover the cost to press or ship never mind the hundreds of dollars in value of having a graded 9.8 of this book.

I called and asked if I can have the rest of my modern subs shipped back in smaller batches rather than 25 at a time since I still have 100 currently at CGC but didn't get a definitive answer on this. I'll most likely also only be subbing maybe 14 max at a time in the future to help prevent this which sucks because I'll no longer be able to do pre-screen subs if this is the case. I'm not really sure what else to do though to prevent this.

I'm including pictures of the current batch I got yesterday with damage. Damage is along the bottom and is pretty significant.

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Sharon Wang

[THE_BEYONDER]

14 minutes ago, Sharon Wang said:

I'm dealing with something now that's similar to this. 2 out of my last 4 subs that I have received have irreversible damage along the bottom of the comics where it looks like the books tried to escape the inner well and got hung up on the edge causing the cover and inside pages to be damaged. 5 comics in this sub of 25 have it. 8 in a previous sub of 25 earlier this year had it. CGC was unable to fix 4 of the first 8 damaged when I shipped them back which really sucks.

I'm fairly certain this is happening because I live on the West Coast and the boxes are being handled roughly or dropped during the long travel time. The first sub with damaged books I had received had multiple books that had slid out of the inner well and were resting on the very bottom of the CGC case. It's obviously disappointing for several reasons but CGC also only reimburses for the initial amount declared on the submission form. One of these damaged books would have been the only one on the census in 9.8 but of course that's not the case any more and was a total loss since the reimbursement didn't cover the cost to press or ship never mind the hundreds of dollars in value of having a graded 9.8 of this book.

I called and asked if I can have the rest of my modern subs shipped back in smaller batches rather than 25 at a time since I still have 100 currently at CGC but didn't get a definitive answer on this. I'll most likely also only be subbing maybe 14 max at a time in the future to help prevent this which sucks because I'll no longer be able to do pre-screen subs if this is the case. I'm not really sure what else to do though to prevent this.

I'm including pictures of the current batch I got yesterday with damage. Damage is along the bottom and is pretty significant.

 

 

[William-James88]

[William-James88]

18 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

They did tell me to send it back and paid for the shipping.  And they did ask what they could do to make me happy so when push comes to shove they did offer to make it right.

So, what did you say? I don't know what I would say in this scenario. Obviously, it should be sent so that there is no chance for further damage. But beyond that, not sure. Maybe a free 1 year membershp as courtesy?

7 hours ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Or.....

 

They could stop encapsulating comics until they figure out how to do so.

I love your comments

[thehumantorch]

44 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

So, what did you say? I don't know what I would say in this scenario. Obviously, it should be sent so that there is no chance for further damage. But beyond that, not sure. Maybe a free 1 year membershp as courtesy?

 

I told them I didn't want compensation.  Without an apology and an acknowledgement that they handled this poorly I'd rather not be bought off by a couple free grades or 1 year membership.

[thehumantorch]

1 hour ago, Sharon Wang said:

I'm dealing with something now that's similar to this. 2 out of my last 4 subs that I have received have irreversible damage along the bottom of the comics where it looks like the books tried to escape the inner well and got hung up on the edge causing the cover and inside pages to be damaged. 5 comics in this sub of 25 have it. 8 in a previous sub of 25 earlier this year had it. CGC was unable to fix 4 of the first 8 damaged when I shipped them back which really sucks.

I'm fairly certain this is happening because I live on the West Coast and the boxes are being handled roughly or dropped during the long travel time. The first sub with damaged books I had received had multiple books that had slid out of the inner well and were resting on the very bottom of the CGC case. It's obviously disappointing for several reasons but CGC also only reimburses for the initial amount declared on the submission form. One of these damaged books would have been the only one on the census in 9.8 but of course that's not the case any more and was a total loss since the reimbursement didn't cover the cost to press or ship never mind the hundreds of dollars in value of having a graded 9.8 of this book.

I called and asked if I can have the rest of my modern subs shipped back in smaller batches rather than 25 at a time since I still have 100 currently at CGC but didn't get a definitive answer on this. I'll most likely also only be subbing maybe 14 max at a time in the future to help prevent this which sucks because I'll no longer be able to do pre-screen subs if this is the case. I'm not really sure what else to do though to prevent this.

I'm including pictures of the current batch I got yesterday with damage. Damage is along the bottom and is pretty significant.

 

Sorry to see this.

[Randall Ries]

2 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

Please don't characterize this as CGC beating me down.  That's not what I said and I don't consider that an accurate representation of what happened.  I didn't respond to your question because I went to bed.

My apologies. I saw you responding to others questions after my question.

[Randall Ries]

2 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

 

When I return a damaged book that is the moment to determine the cause and contact me, and if the damage was caused by them an apology and a discussion about compensation should be a priority.  That didn't happen.  Trying to argue my case after it has been repressed and regraded is difficult.  It was only when I told the CGC rep to look at my pictures and tell me their case didn't damage my book that they asked what would make me happy.  Unfortunately, since I put great stock in apologies and none was offered there was nothing they could offer me at that point to make me happy.

Ah. I thought you had mentioned they had made you happy. So, this obviously isn't the first time they have damaged one of your books. Do you feel nervous when you send in a book with great value? I guess I would have to be clear with them concerning what I expected from them before sending books to be graded. Even if I sent 10 books in and one was damaged I wouldn't consider that acceptable. Didn't pay you to rip my book and then tell me to go pound sand down a rat hole.

In an earlier post here, I suggested a way CBCS grades the Treasury editions which - when I got it in the mail - made a whole lot of sense. Plus, the onus is on me to make sure I handle it properly so I don't degrade the thing. There are no clamps, locks, sleeves, wells, or closing of parts, no fitting edges into slots. Slide the thing in a sturdy sleeve with a hardy backing board, seal it shut with a grading sticker on the front and two tabs on the back. Break the seals and void the grade. If CGC made the grading label a sticker, they could do that with virtually any book. Just seal it closed with the grading sticker. Peel it off and void the grade.

I guess I'm saying the way it is being done now is overkill to a degree but books are getting hurt in the process. Do it the other way and there should be zero damage.