Book Damaged by CGC Case 2 2

[Randall Ries]

1 hour ago, thehumantorch said:

I told them I didn't want compensation.  Without an apology and an acknowledgement that they handled this poorly I'd rather not be bought off by a couple free grades or 1 year membership.

Isn't an offer of free grading or a free yearly membership acknowledgement and admission of screwing said pooch on their part?

[Randall Ries]

2 hours ago, Sharon Wang said:

I called and asked if I can have the rest of my modern subs shipped back in smaller batches rather than 25 at a time since I still have 100 currently at CGC but didn't get a definitive answer on this. I'll most likely also only be subbing maybe 14 max at a time in the future to help prevent this which sucks because I'll no longer be able to do pre-screen subs if this is the case. I'm not really sure what else to do though to prevent this.

 

 

I am truly sorry that happened. It's apparent this is no longer a "once in awhile occurrence". The other thread with the damaged Avengers 4 was quite a read. I would have been beyond incensed.

I think I have a solution though to your pondering what you can do about it in the future: Stop sending your books until they get it together. I don't understand the logic of "They damaged not one, but several of my books, hosing me out of a one of a kind 9.8 on the census but maybe I will just send fewer books."

I mean sure. The distance from CA to FLA is a haul. But that really isn't the problem, is it? They arrived to THEM intact. But they didn't arrive back intact. Because someone didn't seat the books correctly. There are pictures in the Avengers 4 thread that look just like your books do.

Well, I am very sorry. These books mean something to us, I assume. Whether it's the books or the value of the books or both. Professionals are supposed to treat them as we would treat them. As a house painter, would I go into someones house, paint the thing and gouge their door frame without apologizing and replacing it? No.

I'd go talk with CBCS and see if they have the same problem and if not, how do they prevent such things from happening.

[William-James88]

3 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

I told them I didn't want compensation.  Without an apology and an acknowledgement that they handled this poorly I'd rather not be bought off by a couple free grades or 1 year membership.

But your still sending it back for them to fix this right? Because right now that book should be removed from the slab asap

[William-James88]

2 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Isn't an offer of free grading or a free yearly membership acknowledgement and admission of screwing said pooch on their part?

That's a good point. If they felt they weren't at fault, they'd offer nothing, like they do with all the people who complain of books being damaged during signings.

Edited April 17, 2021 by William-James88

[thehumantorch]

2 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Ah. I thought you had mentioned they had made you happy. So, this obviously isn't the first time they have damaged one of your books. Do you feel nervous when you send in a book with great value? 

First time they've damaged a book of mine.  Anytime we send something of value to get graded there's a risk.  Either in shipping or the grading process.  The risk is small but it's there.

[thehumantorch]

2 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Isn't an offer of free grading or a free yearly membership acknowledgement and admission of screwing said pooch on their part?

As soon as they received my book back and looked at it I expected an inspection to determine the cause of the damage, then an email acknowledging the cause and an apology (I knew 100% that the spacer was the problem}.  I don't know what their policy is but if this is how they usually handle books they've damaged there's a problem.  And no, asking what they could do to make me happy could very well be what they say to any complaining customer

[thehumantorch]

42 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

But your still sending it back for them to fix this right? Because right now that book should be removed from the slab asap

If you read the thread you'll see that I did send the book back and it was regraded and returned to me.

[Randall Ries]

31 minutes ago, thehumantorch said:

First time they've damaged a book of mine.  Anytime we send something of value to get graded there's a risk.  Either in shipping or the grading process.  The risk is small but it's there.

Yes I understand that. It seems that people are beginning to come forward and tell their stories which don't seem to be stories from the distant past. You also prefaced this thread by saying you didn't want it to become a "CGC bashing thread" but you are obviously upset enough about it to want to talk about it and get it off your chest. You and others paid for a service with a bad outcome, were treated like chumps afterward and you SHOULD be upset.

With the USPS, I can see the risk would be higher. Once the book is at the grading place, the risk should be zero. You seem to be defending them while people are saying (yourself included) their books are getting shivved not from an accident, but carelessness or lack of competence. Then the underlying message is CGC won't do much more than offer a free grading or yearly membership. Because why? They don't feel like they HAVE TO?

So, ripping say that Avengers 4 is only worth a free grading or yearly membership to a place that ripped an Avengers 4? In my view, the book is no longer a 7.5 and yet they left it as 7.5 presumably to give Phillip a chance to sell it. So, he loses perhaps a couple thousand and he gets a free grading. Sound fair to me. Not.

Where does liability insurance come up i these exchanges? No one has mentioned they have insurance to cover damages they were responsible for while other peoples property is in their custody. By offering a free grading or free yearly subscription, that is their admission of culpability. It isn't the owner of the books fault it got damaged. It isn't USPS either. It's not even the graders fault. It IS the fault of whoever encapsulated it. Phillip sent his in TWICE and the second time he got it back there was FURTHER damage PLUS the original damage. And then sent it in a third time. For me, the second time returned with damage would be lawsuit time.

I guess I can't understand why anyone would accept that kind of thing as a standard business practice. Whoops. We whacked up your valuable but we aren't responsible because YOU KNEW THE "RISKS". No other business I can think of would be allowed to skate like that without being justifiably sued.

[thehumantorch]

8 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

Yes I understand that. It seems that people are beginning to come forward and tell their stories which don't seem to be stories from the distant past. You also prefaced this thread by saying you didn't want it to become a "CGC bashing thread" but you are obviously upset enough about it to want to talk about it and get it off your chest. You and others paid for a service with a bad outcome, were treated like chumps afterward and you SHOULD be upset.

With the USPS, I can see the risk would be higher. Once the book is at the grading place, the risk should be zero. You seem to be defending them while people are saying (yourself included) their books are getting shivved not from an accident, but carelessness or lack of competence. Then the underlying message is CGC won't do much more than offer a free grading or yearly membership. Because why? They don't feel like they HAVE TO?

So, ripping say that Avengers 4 is only worth a free grading or yearly membership to a place that ripped an Avengers 4? In my view, the book is no longer a 7.5 and yet they left it as 7.5 presumably to give Phillip a chance to sell it. So, he loses perhaps a couple thousand and he gets a free grading. Sound fair to me. Not.

Where does liability insurance come up i these exchanges? No one has mentioned they have insurance to cover damages they were responsible for while other peoples property is in their custody. By offering a free grading or free yearly subscription, that is their admission of culpability. It isn't the owner of the books fault it got damaged. It isn't USPS either. It's not even the graders fault. It IS the fault of whoever encapsulated it. Phillip sent his in TWICE and the second time he got it back there was FURTHER damage PLUS the original damage. And then sent it in a third time. For me, the second time returned with damage would be lawsuit time.

I guess I can't understand why anyone would accept that kind of thing as a standard business practice. Whoops. We whacked up your valuable but we aren't responsible because YOU KNEW THE "RISKS". No other business I can think of would be allowed to skate like that without being justifiably sued.

The risk is never zero once CGC has a book.  Any time humans are involved mistakes can happen.  

[Randall Ries]

17 minutes ago, thehumantorch said:

As soon as they received my book back and looked at it I expected an inspection to determine the cause of the damage, then an email acknowledging the cause and an apology (I knew 100% that the spacer was the problem}.  I don't know what their policy is but if this is how they usually handle books they've damaged there's a problem.  And no, asking what they could do to make me happy could very well be what they say to any complaining customer

It sounds to me from your experience, Phillips and Sharon's, their policy is pretty clear: Accept no blame. Admit no responsibility. Hope the client sucks it up and goes away.

I have to wonder what someone would do if they sent in a Tec 27 to be graded and it came back torn or lumped up. Or a Bat 1.

Meh. I'm happy with top loaders and mylar. I'd rather be PO'ed with myself if I damaged my own book than some corporation with no liability insurance that makes money hand over fist, claiming they are the best and industry leaders while damaging peoples collectibles without offering replacement value.

I'll have to check CBCS' forum see if they have stories like this as well.

I agree with you, though. There IS a problem. A big problem. If a company wants to remain #1, they also need integrity and enough decency to make their obvious blunders right. Sounds to me like they are using trainees to encapsulate and there is no checks and balance system in place to check their work before it leaves the shop.

[Randall Ries]

Just now, thehumantorch said:

The risk is never zero once CGC has a book.  Any time humans are involved mistakes can happen.  

How about close to zero? Sharon's books look like your books. It's the same error being committed. Books are falling into the wells. Next thing we know, a statement will be issued "It wasn't OUR fault. It was faulty holders." Yeah, right. What I'd like to know is why are the books even being sent back like that? Yours were ripped. They didn't notice? Then why should I trust the graders opinion if they "don't notice" a ripped cover? Where is QC when all this is happening? They are hoping you will just go away and not kick up a fuss.

Well, I wish I were more like you. Forgiving, understanding and wise. "Aw, It's ok. It's only several hundred dollars lost. Not only did I pay full price  for grading, I lost value on my book(s) in the process! They are still a good company. Gotta go! Getting ready to send out more books to be graded. I sure hope they come back ok!" I don't think I could hold my breath that long every time I sent books out to be graded.

[Paddy_McShillihan]

51 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

I have to wonder what someone would do if they sent in a Tec 27 to be graded and it came back torn or lumped up. Or a Bat 1.

Exactly ... or pooch a nice AF15 .. drops a few grades because of their slab... who's paying for that ? I'm starting to think the folks on here that prefer raw books in mylars have the right idea ... 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Paddy_McShillihan

[Joe Lindsey]

On 7/31/2020 at 10:57 AM, thehumantorch said:

Hi guys

I don't want this thread to turn into a CGC bashing thread but felt it was important to start this thread.

Sent 7 books to CGC and when I was inspected the books noticed that one had 2 rips on the bottom of the back cover.  I noticed that the case had what I would call a spacer at the bottom to prevent the book from moving in the case but it wasn't doing it's job and the book could slide about an inch up and down.  As I tilted the case I could see the book slide and snag on the spacer and the two rips were located where the book bumped against the spacer.  I have no doubt that if I shook the book hard the rips would have got bigger.  I also looked at every CGC case in my collection that had a spacer and none of them could move in the case.

Grader notes indicated rips on cover but not where and not size.  I sent the book back for review and CGC pressed it, graded it and sent it back to me.

Book was originally graded 4.0 and 4.0 the second time so I'm not sure I can argue any loss of value.  Because I did not scan the back cover before submission, something I will do for any book submitted in the future, I can't prove the book was actually damaged by the case but as I told the CGC rep "I don't know how anyone could look at these pictures and not agree that the case damaged my book"

The damage is easier to see on the left side but there's a very similar rip on the right side.

I’m getting here a little bit late but this happened to a book I have also. They wouldn’t even regrade and Reslab free of charge. RIP customer service 

[THE_BEYONDER]

2 hours ago, Joe Lindsey said:

I’m getting here a little bit late but this happened to a book I have also. They wouldn’t even regrade and Reslab free of charge. RIP customer service 

That’s not good....

[vheflin]

This is beyond acceptable human error.

Somebody in the slab room is:

• not sealing inner wells
• not properly fitting the book in the inner well, i.e. the wedge/spacer isn't fitted correctly
• careless or inexperienced

I've yet to sub anything.  I do have things to sub however and I'm to do so after reading this thread.

 

[joeypost]

On 7/31/2020 at 4:08 PM, Ditch Fahrenheit said:

Wedges are used as spacers when the right size core (inner well) is not available to fit the book properly.  They are inside the core, and touch the book.  In your case the wedge is 100% the reason why the pages were torn.

Here's another example where the same thing occurred.

CGC Wedge Causing Damage

Having cracked out my share of slabs i have found the edges of these inserts to be "rough" and not polished. I would imagine if they were smooth, damage like this would happen less frequently. 

[Joe Lindsey]

3 hours ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

That’s not good....

Even rogue is sad about it 

[thehumantorch]

16 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

How about close to zero? Sharon's books look like your books. It's the same error being committed. Books are falling into the wells. Next thing we know, a statement will be issued "It wasn't OUR fault. It was faulty holders." Yeah, right. What I'd like to know is why are the books even being sent back like that? Yours were ripped. They didn't notice? Then why should I trust the graders opinion if they "don't notice" a ripped cover? Where is QC when all this is happening? They are hoping you will just go away and not kick up a fuss.

Well, I wish I were more like you. Forgiving, understanding and wise. "Aw, It's ok. It's only several hundred dollars lost. Not only did I pay full price  for grading, I lost value on my book(s) in the process! They are still a good company. Gotta go! Getting ready to send out more books to be graded. I sure hope they come back ok!" I don't think I could hold my breath that long every time I sent books out to be graded.

I believe how Sharon's books were encapsulated is different than how this book was encapsulated.  Mine has a spacer at the bottom of the slab that's designed to hold the book in place, you can see it in my pictures at the beginning of this thread.  The spacer did not hold my book in place and it could slide about 1/2 an inch up and down inside the case.  As I tilted it top of the case down and bottom up the book would slide to the top of the slab and when I tilted it the reverse it would slide down and impact onto the bottom spacer.  The impact point was exactly where the two rips had developed.  That wouldn't notice the damage because it would have occurred during shipping.  Every time the parcel moved the book would shift and damage would accumulate.  Their failure was likely not noticing the book could significantly shift up and down in the case.  And let's face it, allowing a comic to significantly slide up and down in a hard plastic case is dangerous.

I'm not sure why you're characterizing me of being forgiving and understanding.  Your posts seem a bit aggressive and like a personal attack and I'm not sure why that is.  I'm not happy and have never stated I was and I clearly started this thread to express that and to warn people about the risks involved and what to look for.  I still believe they are the best grading comic grading company out there and I have no choice but to submit to them but they could be better. 

And I think it's important for CGC to think about how important quality control is and how they handle these situations, if they get a reputation for damaging books that will be bad for business.  And if they get a reputation for damaging books and not caring about the customer that will be even worse.

[Namtak]

On 7/31/2020 at 3:04 PM, bc said:

Watching a video by MrB

About 2:25 into it, he extracts the book from the case and the book is sealed in what he calls an "envelope".

I'm just wondering if the spacer is (a) inside the envelope, (b) outside the envelope (and cutting thru it and the book) or (c) that the envelope is missing.

-bc

Funny he craked a comic named crack comics

[I like pie]

14 hours ago, Joe Lindsey said:

I’m getting here a little bit late but this happened to a book I have also. They wouldn’t even regrade and Reslab free of charge. RIP customer service 

Who did you speak to specifically? Would you like me to PM you the contact information of those that will take care of it?