Why is Superman called the first costumed superhero when The Phantom came first? 0

[Bo_Hogg1]

All these years, I thought Superman came first and something caused me to check it and The Phantom came out 4 months before but the Phantom gets no respect. I have always thought of The Phantom like soccer.  The Phantom is the most popular superhero world wide like soccer is to sports but we don't really care that much about either one in the USA..

I own a nice Ace 11 and would never ever sell it at guide when I sell it, it deserves waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over guide. I will try and dig it out of my safe and post a pic.

So my question is why no respect for The Phantom?

[waaaghboss]

The Phantom does not possess super powers, hence not a superhero.

 

And before you ask, I don't know what makes batman a superhero.

 

*edit*  oh and post a pic!  I picked up a couple older ace comics recently and can't get enough of them!

Edited July 31, 2020 by waaaghboss

[Robot Man]

Superman is "super" and The Phantom is not???

Edited August 1, 2020 by Robot Man

[Electricmastro]

It does seem like moving the goal post when saying a hero like Green Arrow isn’t a superhero simply because he’s not like Superman, as if Superman is the only “true” superhero in existence.

[EC Star&Bar]

You could also argue that Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon wore colorful costumes and engaged in heroic action -- and both of them pre-dated The Phantom.

[Electricmastro]

1 hour ago, Robot Man said:

Superman is "super" and Mandrake is not???

Also, the Phantom Magician (aka Phil Cardigan) from Famous Funnies #35 (June 1937, Eastern Color Printing).

[Electricmastro]

17 minutes ago, EC Star&Bar said:

You could also argue that Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon wore colorful costumes and engaged in heroic action -- and both of them pre-dated The Phantom.

Also worth mentioning is the 1904 version of Spring-Heeled Jack, whom was made relatively more heroic than how he was previously portrayed.

[circumstances]

Didn't the Phantom first appear in the newspaper in 1936?

Aren't Dr. Mystic/Dr. Occult? The Clock? all costumed heroes (in comic books themselves) that pre-dated Superman?

 

[Electricmastro]

18 minutes ago, circumstances said:

Didn't the Phantom first appear in the newspaper in 1936?

Aren't Dr. Mystic/Dr. Occult? The Clock? all costumed heroes (in comic books themselves) that pre-dated Superman?

 

Yeah, one could just see Jerry Siegel writing in ideas he’d eventually use for Superman in his earlier work, as well as Joe Shuster fleshing them out, like in More Fun Comics #16 (December, 1936):

Edited August 1, 2020 by Electricmastro

[IngelsFan]

1883’s Man in Black is the earliest costumed hero I’ve found who had multiple appearances.

Edited August 1, 2020 by IngelsFan

[Timely]

There were several “superhero” types before Superman. Maybe better to say Superman was the first successful superhero. He was definitely the one who got the ball rolling! Most of the other ones didn’t even merit cover status for their first appearances. 

[catman76]

The Phantom had no "super powers", he was a regular human that just had more than normal abilities from training etc.  Like Doc Savage, who was called Superman five years or so before THE Superman was. I'd say the Shadow was the closest thing to the first costumed superhero, but I guess it depends on what your definition of superpowers are. If they are something that are completely impossible in reality then yeah it's probably Superman. Who else before Superman, besides a god, could have bullets bounce off them and leap tall buildings in a single bound and all that? I think none. But as for superhero period there were tons before Superman who had abilities that no human could ever have in reality. There was a early 1900s newspaper strip called Hugo Hercules and he could pick up cars, houses, elephants and had super strength. But he just wore a regular suit.

[Electricmastro]

3 hours ago, Timely said:

There were several “superhero” types before Superman. Maybe better to say Superman was the first successful superhero. He was definitely the one who got the ball rolling! Most of the other ones didn’t even merit cover status for their first appearances. 

I think that Zorro from 1919 very much helped popularize the idea of a citizen taking on a hero persona and costume in the cause of an altruistic mission, using abilities that don’t need to be supernatural in order to be exceptional and extraordinary. I recall that even the basis of the Lone Ranger’s creation from 1933 was “the cowboy version of Zorro,” which I think lends credit to how popular and influential Zorro had become.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Electricmastro

[adamstrange]

Scarlet Pimpernel was the first time the fop who was secretly the dashing hero.  It was almost certainly a critical inspiration for Zorro.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scarlet_Pimpernel

Phillip Wylie's "The Gladiator" contained many elements borrowed by Siegel for Superman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladiator_(novel)

Superman was the first time all the elements of the modern superhero were put together:  costume, meek & mild public persona, super-human abilities, etc.  It's this particular combination that has struck a chord and inspired hundreds of imitators to a degree that none of his predecessors did.

[Electricmastro]

9 hours ago, adamstrange said:

Superman was the first time all the elements of the modern superhero were put together:  costume, meek & mild public persona, super-human abilities, etc.

I’d still say that prior characters like Mandrake the Magician can’t make me confidently put Superman as “first,” regardless of how much people put him on a high pedestal, as well as how Mandrake surely helped inspire many non-magician and magician characters like Ibis and Zatara, debuting alongside Superman.

But then again, really though, perhaps the amount of imitators and who was “objectively” first is irrelevant in the end, and what really matters is not being ignorant to what came before Superman, because even Siegel and Shuster weren’t ignorant to what characters, and even actors, came before, so I don’t think we should be either.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Electricmastro

[N e r V]

On 7/31/2020 at 2:51 PM, Bo_Hogg1 said:

All these years, I thought Superman came first and something caused me to check it and The Phantom came out 4 months before but the Phantom gets no respect. I have always thought of The Phantom like soccer.  The Phantom is the most popular superhero world wide like soccer is to sports but we don't really care that much about either one in the USA..

I own a nice Ace 11 and would never ever sell it at guide when I sell it, it deserves waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over guide. I will try and dig it out of my safe and post a pic.

So my question is why no respect for The Phantom?

This has been brought up on many internet boards over the years. The Phantom is often sited too in the discussion as being the first and I remember in at least one country a poster said he was over Superman in his countries view (don’t remember which country it was). Also being a superhero has nothing to do with only having super powers since many do not. So yes the Batman argument works well when bringing up the Phantom.

 

I think the best case in Superman’s favor that people who support his position will point to is he was the first to encompass all the elements that are part of the modern day superhero and it was he alone who ignited the superhero industry including the term “superhero” in its modern meaning. Everyone before him were more or less earlier prototypes as to what was to come. 
 

So although you could argue many of the  concepts that are Superman were “swiped” by Siegel & Schuster from previous material (“nothing new under the sun”) for whatever reasons his introduction in 1938 captured something that the public immediately grasped on to and the superhero concept took hold and it completely changed the (then) new thing called the comic book. Nothing before or since had that kind of explosive impact. 
 

 

 

[Electricmastro]

40 minutes ago, N e r V said:

This has been brought up on many internet boards over the years. The Phantom is often sited too in the discussion as being the first and I remember in at least one country a poster said he was over Superman in his countries view (don’t remember which country it was). Also being a superhero has nothing to do with only having super powers since many do not. So yes the Batman argument works well when bringing up the Phantom.

 

I think the best case in Superman’s favor that people who support his position will point to is he was the first to encompass all the elements that are part of the modern day superhero and it was he alone who ignited the superhero industry including the term “superhero” in its modern meaning. Everyone before him were more or less earlier prototypes as to what was to come. 
 

So although you could argue many of the  concepts that are Superman were “swiped” by Siegel & Schuster from previous material (“nothing new under the sun”) for whatever reasons his introduction in 1938 captured something that the public immediately grasped on to and the superhero concept took hold and it completely changed the (then) new thing called the comic book. Nothing before or since had that kind of explosive impact. 
 

 

 

Well I think that what makes Superman more standalone in a way that it makes his precursors seem like “prototypes” is that he’s an alien. I recall that aliens had been pretty popular even before 1938 and were too often associated with supernatural powers, like the aliens in H.G. Well’s works, John Carter, and Flash Gordon, and that Superman was essentially an alien that was “humanized” and was given colorful underwear in the spirit of strongmen from the circus, which were also popular. To that extent, I suppose if anything, characters that came a little later like Shock Gibson, and to a more popular extent, the Flash, showed that you didn’t need to be an alien, or even a magician, in order to be a supernatural-based superhero, and that it probably goes to show that heroes can originate anywhere in the most unexpected of places.

[shadroch]

I've always considered Superman as first among his peers but not the first one to appear.

[lou_fine]

On 7/31/2020 at 2:51 PM, Bo_Hogg1 said:

So my question is why no respect for The Phantom?

I would venture a guess that one of the main reasons is its extreme rarity which oftentimes tends to keep the price of a book down as it hardly ever comes to market.  Although scarcity usually tends to increase the value of a book, extreme rarity can at times limit its value.  After all, you need market acitivity or action in order (e.g. Hulk 181, ASM 300, AF 15, etc.) to reinforce the prices driving upwards when it comes to collectibles comic books and having only one sale every few years would certainly not qualify.  

From the CGC Census Population report it would appear that there's a total of only 15 copies graded to date, with the highest graded copy being only a CGC 7.5 to this current point in time.  Looks like there's a couple of pedigree copies out there with the Church copy which was graded as a Fine by Chuck back in the day and also a Lost Valley copy that was listed in the catalogue as a raw F- copy for the grand sum of $230.    

I still remember receiving a newsletter from Metro quite a few years ago listing a few of the GA books that they were specifically looking for.  Besides the usual key mainstream super hero runs, they had a a very small handful of specific single issue GA books which they were looking for and included in here was Ace Comics 11 along with a couple others like Master Comics 27 and Fantastic Comics 3.  My bet is that if a nicely presenting half decent copy of Ace 11 came to market, it should probably have no problems reaching 5-figures in today's robust marketplace. 

So, there is some quiet, but hidden respect for the first appearance of the Phantom.  

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by lou_fine

[N e r V]

5 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I would venture a guess that one of the main reasons is its extreme rarity which oftentimes tends to keep the price of a book down as it hardly ever comes to market.  Although scarcity usually tends to increase the value of a book, extreme rarity can at times limit its value.  After all, you need market acitivity or action in order (e.g. Hulk 181, ASM 300, AF 15, etc.) to reinforce the prices driving upwards when it comes to collectibles comic books and having only one sale every few years would certainly not qualify.  

From the CGC Census Population report it would appear that there's a total of only 15 copies graded to date, with the highest graded copy being only a CGC 7.5 to this current point in time.  Looks like there's a couple of pedigree copies out there with the Church copy which was graded as a Fine by Chuck back in the day and also a Lost Valley copy that was listed in the catalogue as a raw F- copy for the grand sum of $230.    

I still remember receiving a newsletter from Metro quite a few years ago listing a few of the GA books that they were specifically looking for.  Besides the usual key mainstream super hero runs, they had a a very small handful of specific single issue GA books which they were looking for and included in here was Ace Comics 11 along with a couple others like Master Comics 27 and Fantastic Comics 3.  My bet is that if a nicely presenting half decent copy of Ace 11 came to market, it should probably have no problems reaching 5-figures in today's robust marketplace. 

So, there is some quiet, but hidden respect for the first appearance of the Phantom.  

 

My comic shop has a raw 0.5 up on their site for $2650.00.